What Was Said Inside Satmar About Yisroel Moshe Weingarten

In 2003 a letter was sent by Rabbi Mordechai Stauber in Antwerp to the Bais Din of R Wosner in Monsey. You can see the Hebrew original here. (Translation by Yerachmiel Lopin- translation copyright  reserved)

BAIS RACHEL
Kleuter, Lagere, Middelbare School en Satmar
Lamorinierestraat 26-28
2019 Antwerpen
Tel 281-3000 – Fax 218 91-23

Friday, Parshas Pinchas, 5763, [July 18, 2003] Antwerp, May Zion be Restored

Respectfully to the renowned great scholar, presiding on justice, righteous leader to his congregation, his glory on the Jewish people, the honorable renowned, Rabbi, Sage, Ben Zion Yaakov Halevi Wosner, may he be granted long days, and along with him to the rabbis and sages, members of the Beit Din Tzedek (religious court) of the Holy Congregation of Monsey [NY].

After inquiring about your well-being, I am answering your request to write what I know about the painful affair of the Weingarten family.  They lived here in our city Antwerp for many years. Their young girls were educated here in Bais Rachel of Satmar. There was a feeling during all those years that an oppressive atmosphere was controlling the girls and their mother. Though we tried to do everything for the good, it did not help much.

In the summer of 5756 [1996] Reb Yisroel Moshe came and pestered us to move his oldest daughter, Frumah Leah, to a higher class; something we don’t do for others. After deliberation we decided to agree. We knew the bitterness of the daughter came from the goings-on at the house. Therefore [we thought] it is worth giving in on a trivial matter; perhaps through this the student will be more satisfied.  But actually we saw, to the contrary, that she came to school with swollen eyes, and at times, with other marks. We did not want to touch this because we knew they were odd people and we wouldn’t accomplish anything.

Reb Wolf Gross, who lives several houses away from them, was a true friend of Yisroel Moshe, and he helped them a lot so there would be something to eat in their house. He told me that Frumah Leah wants to commit suicide, G-d save us, and throw herself out the window. They actually saved her at the last moment. [He told me that] in my role as principal I am obligated to interrogate her in order not [to be guilty of] “standing by on the blood of a fellow Jew” [Leviticus 19:16].

I initiated discussions with her several times until she revealed to me that she endured murderous beatings from him [her father] for reasons she could not reveal to me under any circumstances. Only after much urging and assurances, she wrote on paper that for a long time her father was doing with her [sexually] perverted things, have mercy on us. I do not remember all she wrote. But this I remember exactly as I received it from her. “He takes and he ejaculates (motzi zerah l’vatallah) …(ellipses in original) very close to actual biblically prohibited incestuous intercourse, (ad karov ligiluy arayos mamash), have mercy on us.    She added afterwards, verbally, that she was disgusted with a life like this for a quite a while and that he hit her with frightening sadism. Because of this she wanted to put an end to her life, G-d save us.

It is self understood what a shock this was for us.  Because the one of whom we speak was a girl of 15, we passed the matter over to the rabbonim and the leader of Satmar [in Antwerp], Rabbi Chaim Yosef Dovid Weiss, may he live long, head of our congregation. [Rabbi Weiss] took the testimony and he [the father] did not deny it. As a consequence he [Rabbi Weiss] forbade him [Yisroel Weingarten] to seclude himself with his daughter (asar lo l’hityached im bito). He arranged for her to immediately go to Manchester, [England, to a girls school where she would board].

This happened during Chanukah, 5757 [December 1996 ]. At the end of the winter she returned from Manchester and the whole family traveled to Israel for Passover. After Passover he [Yisroel Weingarten] returned alone with his aforementioned daughter and he was secluded with her all summer. All we did was write a letter that we have no responsibility (achrayis) for the aforementioned student [Frumah Leah] from here on in. Also, that none of his children have permission to set foot in our institutions. Till the month of Ellul, his disgrace was not [publicly] revealed. On the contrary; he [Yisroel Weingarten] made himself out to be a respectable man and we kept quiet. In the middle of Ellul his true disgrace was revealed through others with more ugly things. The whole city was astonished. Suddenly it came out through a tape that the daughter was involved in sin with a neighbor, Meyerowitz Meierowitz. This was something that the dayan of Satmar did not hear from him [Yisroel Weingarten] all through the course of the previous winter while he judged him.

We surmised that all of his doings were astounding and full of contradictions. My wife, may she live long, told me many times at the end of long discussion that she senses from him an air of impurity (ruach tummah). I still gave him the benefit of the doubt until I heard from his daughter the aforementioned deeds [about which she wrote]. Through this were explained many contradictions.

His wife endured a lot from him. Many times she burst out in gushing tears. He was terribly, unfathomably, sadistic towards her. After some weeks she returned and said that all of her words were nonsense and lies, and so on. It was seen that he manipulates her [manipaleert ) in a terrible way.

The devastation (hachurban) [evoked] in putting forth my words pains me greatly. [Do] what it is in your power to save them from this hypocrite, crook and swindler without equal who does the acts of Zimri and demands the reward of Pinchas [Babylonian Talmud Sotah 22b referring to Devarim/Numbers 25:6-14].  I would also add, that the Admor Rabbi Leibish of  Phshevorsk, may he live long, said that they investigated the family in 5757 [1997-1998], meaning the woman and daughter, in Jerusalem the holy city, and they [the investigators] uncovered things.

Signed and sealed in sorrow and wishing you success,

Mordechai Stauber

Hat tip    for Translation to DH and J

41 thoughts on “What Was Said Inside Satmar About Yisroel Moshe Weingarten

  1. Is this Stauber related to the one who was involved in protecting Avrohom Reichman and UTA Satmar? That Stauber wrote a pathetic piece on the now defunct anti-Nuchem blog, defending Reichman and attacking his victims.

  2. As a consequence he [Rabbi Weiss] forbade him [Yisroel Weingarten] to seclude himself with his daughter

    Ooh, what a harsh consequence! Then again, it is more than the Brooklyn rabbis have ever done. Instead of threatening the child molesters, they threaten and harrass the victims and their families.

    • I was intrigued by this letter when I read it. Working through the translation I ended up trying to put myself in Stauber’s mind. I felt his pain and sorrow in writing the letter. As you said, Steve, he was better than most especially by the standards of the mid 1990’s. He did respond to a report by a due dilligence inquiry. I sense he conducted the inquiry in ways that brought the facts to the surface rather than giving up the first time he got no details. He certainly did not try to intimidate her into withdrawing her report of being molested. He did not exploit tznius nonsense to avoid hearing very ugly and unpleasant facts. He was receptive to his wifes perceptions about Weingarten.

      He reported his discovery. But then it went into the hands of leadership.

      I am told that Stauber took on the son of a powerful rabbinic family and got him removed from an important position because of his being a molester.

      And yet he showed a complete lack of insight into the danger Weingarten posed to his other children and to children outside his family. In contrast, his daughter Leah, years after she broke with the community fought to get him prosecuted because she was afraid of her younger sister being molested.

      I also found it intriguing to see that in spite of protestations about not knowing, the community’s officials knew, on three continents. Yet he was allowed to function in Monsey and Kiryas Yoel. It angers me when the community claims “only now are we realizing that these things go on.” I wonder how many more cases there are like this? Would a raid of some bais din’s files yield as much evidence as the Boston Globe found in the files of the Boston Archdiocese?

      • I doubt that they keep any files for they would be incriminating themselves. In Baltimore, there is a man named Eliezer Eisgrau who allegedly raped his daughter for many years, as well as several of his male students. The Baltimore community attacked the credibility of his daughter, claiming she was mentally unstable. Who wouldn’t go nuts after years of being raped by one’s own father? In the meantime, Eisgrau is continually honored as if nothing ever happened. Read about this girl’s heartbreaking story:

        http://jewishsurvivors.blogspot.com/2006/07/dear-family-by-eliezer-eisgraus.html

        • I am sure that what they have they have started shredding. But sometimes documents appear like the mesirah ruling in the Lebovits case that came back to hit him in the face at the trial.

          I was exagerating, but we don’t know for sure.

  3. wait – u mean rebbeim don’t have the resources to make sure pervs like this don’t molest again??

    shocker!

    :-/

    • I often say that if they want to control someone they have to hire a 24/7 mashgiach temimi.

      I heard a great story. An activist was told not to worry about a certain molester “because we are keeping an eye on him.”

      The activist said: “great, so can you tell me where he is right now?”

  4. Yerachmiel, first I would like to extend a hardy thank you, for you effort to translate this letter from Stauber, I know it wasn’t easy but you persevered.
    My take of this letter, regardless of the tone of Stauber’s letter the fact is that from 1996 to 2008 When YM Weingarten was arrested, he was able to go to Mikvah or have a close association with children without any fear that he might be exposed. The fact is that he was exposed in 1996 but there were no consequences’ to molesting his daughter. Look at it from the pedophiles POV, the Rabbi Weiss ruled that he cannot be alone with this daughter. Guess what, he still had a bunch of children in his home. And to top it off, he still had a Yeshiva, for six more months. What should be the function of Stauber the school principle and the Rabbi Weiss the Rabbi of the Satmar congregation? Finally I would not fool delude myself and believe that he earnestly felt the pain of the victim, if that is the case this would have been taken care of years before my nice went to the FBI.

    • All I can say to Reb Leo’s comment is ditto. What a shameful cover-up.

      Here’s what I’m wondering: What was the ruling of Rav Wosner and the dayanim regarding I. Weingarten? How did they think they’d taken care of I. Weingarten? Or did they instruct the daughter to go to the FBI?

      Obviously, going to the FBI was the right decision. I’m just wondering what the role of Rav Wosner and the dayanim was in all this..

      Perhaps Reb Leo could clear some of that up.

      • Baruch, first I am not a Reb, I am not orthodox, as you wanted to know what the outcome of the Wosner Beit Din was, the Beit Din was assembled not because the sexual molestation but divorce and child custody. When the Beit Din got the Stauber letter, YM decided not to partake in the Beit Din, because of his unwillingness to participate, years later when the trial was going on, they gave the wife permission to be a witness for the prosecution. But to make it clear, between 2003 the time the Beit Din got the letter and 2008, when the FBI arrested him there were no consequences. YM was alone with his six children without any supervision.

    • Leo,

      I see a continum. At the top are those who take all actions necessary to protect all children. At the other end are those who deny any problem exists. Stauber is somewhere in between. The problem with those like him is they are locked into the community culture that defers to its leaders and defers to the rule of not going outside the community to solve problems. So they feel they have done the most they can when they kick someone out of the community. It is a dangerous irresponsible attitude. Still, I try to make distinctions. For one thing, in political advocacy work it helps to make these distinctions. Some types can be moved to the next level. Others cannot. Right now I have various contacts within the chareidi world. Some I have given up working with because I don’t think they care enough. They are morally dead. Others I believe still have a conscience that bothers them. I believe that some of them will eventually become strong advocates of doing the right thing.

      Sadly I have concluded that much of charedi leadership is corrupt. However there are decent folks who because of their decency can never rise too high in that world. Their flaw is a lack of courage to act on their convictions. I believe that some of them will eventually go the distance. I am sorry if I conveyed a sense that I found the latter type OK if not great. But I do find that kind potentially redeemable.

      • Most people admit there’s a problem. Many just refuse to admit there’s a problem with allowing abusers to live in any normative community. The abusers are dangerous and a threat.

        The societal problem is indeed with the rabbinical leadership, which hasn’t taken the sort of unified stand against this idea that abusers can be “dealt with” through private and quiet rabbinic injunctions. They really think there’s a problem of mesirah, why else would they be so quiet?

        But still, ask yourself: if a Moetzes member’s beloved grandchild was c”v to be abused and the Moetzes rabbi found out about it from the parent, what would happen? I can’t imagine any of them would be so callous as to tell the abuser, “Well, just don’t get near my grandkid. But otherwise, don’t sweat it, it’s all hush-hush” (as in this case). Or, “Well, it’s just one accusation, I don’t know for sure. This is only an ‘alleged’ act of abuse, I say let this fellow teach as normal.” (as in the Kolko case)

        • So my point is that when people — the gedolim included — “feel they have done the most they can when they kick someone out of the community,” they’re drawing distinctions based on a lack of human compassion. If it was their kid/grandkid, they’d be doing more.

          • Baruch, I shared that view for a while. But, off the record, I have heard of cases where it was indeed the children of prominent rabbis who were molested and their parents/grandparents knew. And they did indeed fail to go to the police. At most they maximized the internal sanctions. Alas many of them are trapped in the web of conformity they generated. Pathetic but true. They have built a system that allows their own children to be devoured.

            It is my impression that the few who have done the most to move the community forward, albeit in halting steps, are those whose own families have been directly affected by molesting.

      • Yerachmiel, this morning I am pressed for time, therefore I cannot get into the crevasse of the Chasidic mindset. As you know I am pushing sixty I remember the generation who were young and escaped the Holocaust, mostly they were broken physically and mentally, to go on they had to be able in some way became sensitized to others pain. The real problem goes back to our yeshiva days, as we all know that we knew of hundreds of episodes when young man experimented either, with other boys or themselves, it was prevalent, and we all understood that theses experimentations is done in lieu of female company. And 99.99% grow up to be in a normal sexual relationship, no different from a Catholic school when you also have the sexes segregated. This is what the orthodox Rabbis failed to recognize, that sexual experimentation between young adults of same age is normal behavior. But pedophilia is one of the worst types of abuse we could imagine. Not only in most cases has the victim felt inferior for the rest of their lives but also a higher percentage of victims will turn into predators, so the cycle between victims and predators continues with no end in sight. The fact that some have more sympathy for the victim will not change the predator’s behavior, only incarceration will preclude a pedophile from pursuing his prey.

        • Leo, you have put your finger on one aspect of the problem; the failure to distinguish between consensual teen sex play and pedophilia. And yes, the dirty secret of the chareidi world is the widespread reality of such play even as the strictures of interaction between the sexes get heigthened to levels unknown in earlier generations, even in the most strict chasidish circles. I have witnessed it myself over the decades.

  5. Reb Yerachmiel,
    Welcome back to the J-blogosphere btw. I’ve added you to my blogroll.

    If the stories you’ve heard are accurate and they are representative of even a sizable fraction of those who usually discourage “mesirah”, then I am wrong, and we are indeed talking about a problem stemming from an antirationalist worldview. The lack of compassion wouldn’t be the root of the problem, the fundamentalist ideology (stemming from a persecuted European mindset) endorsed via implication by haredi gedolim-run organizations worldwide — which haven’t spoken out against this concept of “mesirah” — would be the root of the problem. That’s a scary prospect.

    • The problem isnt just the stricture on mesirah. It is the profound aversion to letting things come to light that make the frum world look bad. If they were hell bent on not using the authroties they could at least do like satmar does to chabad missionaries and beat the crap out of them, cut off their beards and drop off on the street in their underwear. I know that this isnt legal and it would not solve the problem. But it would at least show they cared about molesting more than appearances. Especially if they did it to a fellow satmar. At least at that point everyone in Satmar would be careful to keep him away from their kids.

      Their world is messed up by a focus on looking frum rather than being erlich. It is not just irrational. It is very corrupt. I dont know for sure how far back it goes. But it certainly is the dominant pattern at present. It took a long time for me to admit this to myself. I grew up thinking that most rabbis, leaders, and adults were honest and decent, whether or not I liked them or their approaches. By now I believe that chareidi leaders who are both honest, compassionate, and with the courage to defy the norms are extremely rare.

  6. I’m glad you are back. It’s good that we have rational constructive comments about all that ails our community. Hopefully you’ll be able to influence some people in power so the necessay changes can be be made for the betterment of all involved. Hatzlocho.

  7. This is what the orthodox Rabbis failed to recognize, that sexual experimentation between young adults of same age is normal behavior. But pedophilia is one of the worst types of abuse we could imagine.

    normal!!!
    In a Yeshivo
    SHAME!
    SHAME!
    SHAME!

    No wonder there are drop outs like you. If that is what chasidim call normal.
    Just surprised there arent many more.

    • It is not my fault, that you have such a lack of understand of human natural behavior, and human biology, I could live with that, but what I resent, that you totally misrepresent what I wrote. Let me tell a story I was told when I was a young man, A Chasid comes to a Rebbe and tells his Rebbe, I need a blessing, my son is totally crazy, please bless him to get back his faculties. The Rebbe inquired what the problem is. The Chasid replied, Rebbe, my son goes out every Friday night to dance with the girls, and after the dancing the go eat Chazer (pig) he is crazy, the Rebbe replied Crazy? If he would dance with the Chazer and eat the girls, (no pun intended), and then he would be crazy, but as it stands now, he is not crazy, he is just a shagitz. Understand that normal behavior is still normal behavior regardless what the Torah has to say, the fact that you claim that this behavior is not normal, that is a indicator that you lack any high school education, from that I could easily extrapolate that you are Chasidic, but for whatever reason you’re disguising your real upbringing.

  8. The real problem goes back to our yeshiva days, as we all know that we knew of hundreds of episodes when young man experimented either, with other boys or themselves, it was prevalent,
    Rabbis failed to recognize, that sexual experimentation between young adults of same age is normal behavior.

    This sounds like public sessions unless your English is not the same as mine.
    I call public where more than one is present in this case not a minyan or mezuman.
    This is not normal in a ‘holy’ yeshivo. Or shouldnt be.

    I wont comment on failed moshiach. ‘Loshon Horoh’ there has identified herself as a girl.

    • I posted the following on FM I am reposting this here for your benefit.

      Posted by: antony | December 09, 2010 at 03:45 PM

      You wrote
      “I think that instead of going after the few pedophiles and [let’s] be honest [it’s] not that many. These blogs should be going after this activity if [it’s] really done in public sessions as you put it.”

      Please go back any read what I wrote; I never said that the experimentation was done in “open sessions” what I wrote it was an open secret. An open secret is a concept or idea that is “officially” secret or restricted in knowledge, but is actually widely known; or refers to something which is widely known to be true, but which none of the people most intimately concerned is willing to categorically acknowledge in public. So please understand plain English before you show you ignorance.
      Posted by: Leo Weingarten | December 09, 2010 at 09:28 PM

  9. come on what is the difference between open or public sessions.
    either others are present or theyre not.
    I used the word public which I explained means someone present. You used the word open which you translate telling everyone.
    Never mind the pele yoez which a girl shouldnt be reading in the first place thats why I dont comment on failed moshiach.
    You know its wrong everyone knows its wrong thats why its not open.
    So dont condone it by saying everyone does it in public (meaning in front of others). That is the excuse of every prostitute.
    As for English I happen to have a university degree.

    • Antony, this is not pilpul, this is straight forward, high school level English. I am sorry to tell you that even after; I spend a few minutes to explain to you the differences between “open session” and “open secret.” You still fail to realize the differences. So for the last time, “open session,” indicates, that you had two participants and others observing for pleasure i.e. people going to the amphitheater to see a performance, and “open secret” denotes, knowledge, people know it is true, even though, people will not acknowledge this to others. After all my explanations, you still come back with this line,

      “So [don’t] condone it by saying everyone does it in public (meaning in front of others). That is the excuse of every prostitute.”

      In my discussions or debates, I rarely get aggravated to a point that I get personal with the other side, I try very hard to keep the debate civil, but you are testing my restrain. Lastly, you claim that you have a university degree, I don’t know, but I am willing to take your word on that, but without a doubt, your English comprehension and your writing skills, is not, even a grade-school level. So therefore, I must surmise that English is your second or third language, which is why you fail to understand the differences.

  10. English is my first language. Yours isn’t. And when did you go to high school. Again with all your open session open secret others observing for pleasure, you miss the point entirely. This is not the question. What is, is this, where others present also doing it. Was it done with minyan. or in this case even two people. Why do you go on about things which have no relevance to the subject. Cant you answer a simple question, without debating sessions and secrets. If you’re aggravated I am sorry but it points to the fact that you cant answer a simple question and can only get aggravated instead. Remember I am frum, you by your own admission are not. And the reason, like I stated that instead of going to high school where you would learn something like me, you went to a place where they ma…… in public instead. I am not blaming you, I can understand you but I am sorry for you.

  11. Posted by: Antony | December 11, 2010 at 01:06 PM

    Antony, I never ever made any issue of your lack of English writing skills; I was trying to understand your inability to grasp simple high-school level English. I had taken in consideration, from your previous postings in this thread that you have extensive knowledge of the Orthodox Rabbis, whereabouts in Belgium, up and including to, the house number where they were practicing. From that information, I extrapolated that you must be from Belgium, therefore, I could easily surmise, that English is not your first language. After all, Belgium had three official languages, Flemish/Dutch, French in the Brussels area, and on a small scale German, but English is not common. That was never meant as a putdown; therefore, I deduced rightly or wrongly, that you are having a comprehension problem. Furthermore, I even took your word, without challenge, that you have a university education, but my view was that English is not your strong area, but regardless what you claim, from our going back and forth, I could easily conclude that you never ever had a formal “English” education, because you fail to properly express your thoughts in writing. I vividly remember when my son was in 7th grade, he was able to write a more cohesive essay, then you were able to string together.

    On one point you are right, I never had a formal high-school education, and when I was seventeen, I took a pre GED test and my English comprehension was at fifth grade level, but I persevered and got my GED and finally my BA. But I will always admit to my short comings, we all have some. You fail in that regard.

    Let me circle back to the real issue at hand. My view is simple, if teenagers explore their sexuality, alone or with another human partner, male or female, that would be considered normal human behavior, I am not discussing if it is permissible according to Torah law. We all know that if you are not married, the Torah forbids any sexual activities, either alone or with a partner. The same as according Torah law, it is not permissible, to eat a cheeseburger, but if you eat a cheeseburger, it would still be a normal human behavior, the same is with sexual exploration as a young man, if you explore your sexuality, that is still normal human behavior. Based on this view, I alleged that the current Rabbis are equating sexual exploration were same age young men are engaged in these activities, with pedophilia, where adults are every day on the prowl for a victim. In my view, the consequences of the inaction by the Rabbis are, one, the great majority of victims suffer mentally for the rest of their lives. Two, a victim has a greater propensity, to become a predator; therefore, the orthodox communities are breeding new predators and because the government doesn’t have the ability to prosecute and incarcerate the predators, in due time, if not yet, they will multiple at a factor greater than the, none orthodox community. By that time, it would be too late to discuss what is the difference between “open session” v “open secret”

    Finally, you totally misrepresenting what I said, or even insinuated. You claim that I said that in the yeshiva (by the way see how you should spell yeshiva) it was encouraged to sexually explore, you make it sound that I said that in the Mikvah there were long lines of young men masturbating each other. Alternatively, in the big study hall were you have 800-900 young men learning, they were either partaking in fellatio, or at a minimum they partook in auto manual manipulation, that is a nice way of saying “hand job.” No, I never ever said that, I said it was a open secret, meaning it was widely known that people explore, and yes, you had the Rabbis talk about it, but it was understood, that exploring your sexuality is a sin like eating a cheeseburger, and teshuvah, will suffice. And because two young men partook both are equally guilty of the sin, therefore, as long they did teshuvah, all is good. But you see, pedophilia is “NOT” sexual exploration or activities, were according to Torah law both partner are equally guilty. The pedophile is the sole guilty person, one he is a choteh umachti, (they sin and make others sin) and to top it off they damaged an innocent young men for life, in my view every predator is a Retzach and the Torah says, “You shall not stand on your friend’s blood.” (Leviticus 19:16). Therefore, Rabbis most be willing to report any predator to the proper police authorities, so the predator could be locked up.

    Hopefully you will agree with my take, but if you don’t, instated of attacking and using generalities, be specific as to what point you disagree with.

  12. yeshivo is not an english word I doubt it is even in the dictionary and you can spell it as you like as long as it is understood.
    I agree with all you say, I have no argument at all.
    What I didnt like is what I hear for the first time and never expected that this exploration is done in company. I never knew that in a chasidish yeshivo which is I suppose, what you mean, the boys were never ashamed to let others know what they got up to. I can understand in private but not in company.
    You have opened my eyes, to something I did not know and claim ignorance of. I can only say such a yeshivo where boys are like that, and have no shame which I repeated 3 times should be closed.
    You should perhaps spill the beans of these yeshivos and make sure no one supports them.
    Their Torah cannot be worth anything. That is if they learn at all.
    No wonder one hears often of even sefer torahs being burnt in fires and certainly many fires in yeshivot. Now I realise why.
    If we do nothing to close them hashem will.
    I am very concise in my words, and try to be as short as possible, and dont believe in long winded posts. I dont like reading them either.

  13. Sorry Antony, see dictionary link,

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/yeshiva

    ye•shi•va  yəˈʃi vəShow Spelled[yuh-shee-vuh] Show IPA
    –noun
    1.
    an Orthodox Jewish school for the religious and secular education of children of elementary school age.
    2.
    an Orthodox Jewish school of higher instruction in Jewish learning, chiefly for students preparing to enter the rabbinate.
    Additionally, you wrote,

    “You have opened my eyes, to something I did not know and claim ignorance of.”

    That was my point that befuddled me, that you claim that you went to a secular school, and you don’t know from basic human biology, that young adults will explore their sexuality. While every high school child knows and indeed explores and you are so shocked by the revelation that you wrote,

    “No wonder one hears often of even [Sefer Torahs] being burnt in fires and certainly many fires in [yeshivas]. Now I [realize] why”

    That is why I challenged your assertion. Finally, I understand your dislike for longwinded posts, and therefore you try to be, very “concise” in your words, but even if you attempted, there are still numerous mistakes, in spelling, punctuation, and interchanging nouns with verbs, by just glancing through, I have noticed at least two dozen mistakes. If I were you, I would take legal action against my university, for not educating me properly, while I paid for my classes. You don’t even need a lawyer; you could do it pro se, and write a few essays and after the judge will grade them, you will win hands down.

  14. When mitzvos and aveiros are considered the only source of true morality (see the sugya of whether one is permitted to lie to receive section 8 subsidies) there is no context in which to place allegations of this nature. It becomes a function of is she “nee’man”? or, did he penetrate?

    This entire paradigm is a direct product of the shift from a yiddishkeit that was strongly rooted in generational ethics passed from parent to child to one which is primarily based on textual exploration. In the latter, it is perfectly normal to ask a rov a sheila whether one should have his mistress go to the mikvah so he is not over on niddah. Because only if the mistress is a niddah is adultery a problem.

    Similarly, when a father complained to Rav Sheinberg that a teacher molested his son, the great Rav asked for the details and concluded that the specific acts were merely a ‘derabonon’ if that much, and as a result the father had no textual permission to pursue the case with the police.

    It’s not necessarily corruption; it is a complete debasement of the values that made us an am hanivchar.

    One scholar wrote about this shift and the tragic effects it had on the evolution of haredi life post WWII. He saw this the consequence of the loss of a generation or two in the war. He saw the consequences in terms of the chumrafication of our lives. I see it also responsible for the raising of a generation with little regard for ethics and values that emanate from “derech eretz kodma latorah”

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