Rabbinical Court Accuses Seminary Operator Elimelech Meisels of “Unwanted Sexual Contact”

Elimelech Meisels

Elimelech Meisels

The Special Beis Din (rabbinical court) of Chicago exists to address allegations of sexual abuse which cannot be, or will not be, directed to the criminal justice system. It is led by Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz, the Av Beis Din (court head) for the Beth Din of America (BDA) and the emeritus Av Beit Din of the Chicago Rabbinical Council (CRC).

Rabbi Elimelech (aka Eli) Meisels with his father, owns and controls operates several Israeli “seminaries” for post-high-school, year-in-Israel religious education of young women, mostly from Yeshivish ultra-orthodox backgrounds in the English speaking world. These include: Pninim, Binas Bais Yaakov, Chedvas Bais Yaakov and Keser Chaya. Meisels is associated with Ohr Somayach and is second author with Rabbi Dovid Kaplan of The Kiruv Files (2008)

In a ruling issued on Thursday July 10, 2014, the Beis Din reported that they believe “that students in these seminaries are at risk of harm and it does not recommend that students attend these seminaries at this time.

The ruling was signed by Rabbis Schwartz, Shmuel Feurst (Dayan of Agudath Israel of Illinois) and Zev Cohen (Congregation Adas Yeshurun).

While Meisels used the title of Rabbi until now the Schwartz Bais Din pointedly referred to him as Mr. Meisels.

Meisels is the grandson of Michael (Mike/Elimelech) Tress the President of Agudath Israel of America from the 1940s till his death in 1967. ArtScroll published a biography  They Called Him Mike: Reb Elimelech Tress…. Elimelech’s mother is Henie (nee Tress) Meisels.

A beit din is being convened in Israel to deal with this matter. I am told they will force Meisels to give up control of the seminaries. I do not know if they have succeeded to date. I suspect the Chicago Beit Din issued its ruling precisely because he refused to give up control. The Israeli Beit din is comprised of Rabbis Menachem Mendel Shafran, Chaim Malinowitz and Tzvi Gartner.

Click on Image to Sharpen and Enlarge

Elimelech Meisels Notice by Chicago Beit Din

UPDATE 7/11/14 7:00 P.M.-

1. The above letter was sent to several dozen seminaries in Israel. I am also told, but cannot confirm, that it was sent to girls high school principals from which the seminaries draw their students.

2. While I mentioned Rav Schwartz’s roles with the Beit Din of America and the Chicago Rabbinical Council, this “Special Bais Din” is a separate entity which is not formally affiliated with any other group. It has been in existence at least since 2007 when Yitzchok Adlerstein, a Haredi rabbi in Los Angeles spoke about it. However, a source involved in these matters believes it was in existence as far back as 1999. Also see this discussion of the “Special Bais Din” for more details about its composition and mode of operation.

3. Some individuals have called the Chicago Rabbinical Council or the Beit Din of American for confirmation of this report. They cannot and will not confirm it. You need to speak to one of the signers or one other member of the Beit Din, Rav Levine, Rosh Yeshiva at Telz-Chicago, who also backs this findings.

UPDATE 7/14/14: 9:00 a.m. — See new post: Israeli Beit Din Announces Removal of Meisels from His Seminaries and Gives Green Light for Attendance

UPDATE 7/13/14 7:00 A.M.-

THE TRESS CONNECTION: I have confirmed that Elimelech Meisels is the grandson of Mike (Elimelech) Tress the President of Agudath Israel from the 1940s till his death in 1967. The Meisel’s family is royalty for those in the orbit of Agudath Israel, including most of the ultra-orthodox non-Hasidic world. Even the Satmar Rebbe held Mike Tress in high regard.

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633 thoughts on “Rabbinical Court Accuses Seminary Operator Elimelech Meisels of “Unwanted Sexual Contact”

  1. Shouldn’t this matter be referred to the police? They list four seminaries, which leads me to assume AT LEAST four girls where involved, sounds like they may have a rodef on their hands based on their OWN Bais Din’s investigation into the mater. Surely such a case warrants a heter from even the Agudah, no?

    • The only thing harder than getting a Haredi kid to testify to abuse is to get a young woman to testify. there are issues of her being accused of “voluntarily” colluding which can damage either shiduchim or marriages. Knowing R. Gedalia Dov Schwartz’s position, I have no doubt that he approves of victims going to the police without even asking a rabbi.

    • This isnt true. This is a total LIE. Rav Meisels was an incredible mechanech and I wouldnt put it past stupid unhealthy girls who were upset with him to make this up. I know the girls who did, and teachers and friends can testify that they were totally messed up. We are talking TWO GIRLS OUT OF THOUSANDS that ‘accused’ him of this. Why Rav Shmuel Feurst signed this, is completely beyond me and I plan on finding out on Sunday. What a total total LIE.

      • I don’t know how you can know who spoke to the bais din since they did not disclose it. Nor do you know how many young women they spoke to. I know it is easy to slander someone when you don’t like the bad news, but perhaps they are insecure which is why, like most other abusers, he honed in on them.

        • Two points. and i am interjecting here, for lack of a more appropriate place for this comment/question. The question came up yesterday re the propriety and reasoning for having a male RABBI/teacher at an all girls seminary. Not being frum. I still wonder about that . BUT EVEN MORE SO,. I WONDER, with so very many many ostensibly real, young ladies. vouching for him. and re their close relationships with him. I wonder, was all of this closeness developed withing the stated boundaries of Yichud???? I am not frum. again. so perhaps i am missing multiple facts here. Can someone respond re these two issues, particularly the latter one re these lclose relationships, and how and where they developed. “he saved my life” she wrote. another “I don’t care if these things are true or false” he saved my life… etc. ad infinitum….

    • Thank you for stating what is true!! Mr lopian should stop his nonsense. It is despicable.

    • “They list four seminaries, which leads me to assume AT LEAST four girls where involved” NO !!! THINK again, these are the schools where he teaches!! it does not mean that there was a girl from each of them ,at all!!!

      • The beis din letter is ambiguous on whether it involved girls from each of the seminaries or even from more than one of them. But it uses the plural “complainants,” implying more than one. I have heard that there are multiple victims they spoke to. As a rule, those who come forward are a small sample of all victims of a particular perpetrator.

    • If the girls were about the age of 18 (or in some states 16) a crime would not have been committed, in the criminal justice sense. That doesn’t make the person any less of a threat to our children, nor does it mean that because there was a “consensual” encounter, that he should remain in his position. Thus, referring the case to the police would accomplish nothing – yet, he needed to be removed from his position. A B’D accomplished this by telling him he must leave. It’s a great example of Rabbis acting as leaders to protect communities.

      • You are wrong about this not being a crime due to lack of minor status! First of all, without knowing the identity of the girls nor their birth dates, you cannot say for certain that the girls were under 18. There are many seminary students who don’t turn 18 until well into the school year. Plus, rape, or unwanted sexual contact as it has been stated, is a crime that can and should be persecuted whether or not the victim was past the age of 18.

        • Key words: Consensual encounter. Obviously, if the advances/sexual relationships were unwanted, it is on the sexual assault scale. If that is the case, each and every victim should go to the police immediately. In fact, if thats the case, they have a halachic obligation to report the crime in order to prevent other girls from being similarly harmed.

  2. Why is this blog the only place on the internet reporting this? The letter could easily be faked. He is innocent until proven guilty. I know multiple girls who have gone through his seminary who were VERY close to him, and none can believe it is true. So I will withhold judgement until this is confirmed and not coming from one source whose reliability is unknown.

    • If you don’t believe me, contact one of the three rabbis named in the document. They are public figures and their contact information is publicaly available. I am sure they will confirm that they did indeed the sign the document I have reproduced. I cannot explain why other mainstream orthodox sources are not reporting this vital public safety news. Sadly, it is because they value the image of the community and individuals over the safety of their young women. Don’t blame me; blame them.

      Or if you prefer, stick your head in the sand instead of just calling one of these three rabbis.

      • Whether the information you wrote in this article is true or not, one does not need to drag someone’s family along with their misdeeds, if this tragedy truly did occur. Why was it important to make sure to point what his mothers name and maiden name was? These are very sensative topics in the religious world and while it must be brought to the table if there truly is a problem there does not need to be a mention of the perpetrators family who is not a part in any way shape or form of the crime being discussed.
        It was a disgrace to read such information in the article, don’t the family deserve their own privacy in such times ? Please use discretion next time you decide to ruin people’s lives.
        Thank you.

        • The fact that Meisels comes from a family of yichus in the Yeshivish world contributed to his ability to get away with his misconduct for many years. There are also credible allegations of abuse about Michael/Elimelech Tress. He may have gotten more than a name from his grandfather.

      • You think you are
        Protecting us and the other young girls around?! Ha.
        Your the reason we are suffering in this gallus in the first place. Your big mouth and sick lashon hara

      • Questions:
        1) What Bais Din is taking ‘responsibility’ for this matters? Israel, Chicago, neither, take your pick silly?
        2) Is Mr Meisels in Israel or Chicago? If he is in Israel he can’t testify, and if he is in Chicago why does the letter say he is in Israel?
        3) Why is this a ‘special’ Beis Din? Does it make it a ‘better’ one?
        4) Why does the letter tell us WHO the Israel Bais Din is? Are there no known Beis Dins in Israel? Is that one also ‘special’?
        5) ‘The Beis Din Believes’ – ‘BELIEVES’ is a VERY POOR Choice of a word when you’re passing Judgement of this magnitude.
        6) ‘at this time’ – Does anyone really believe that? – yeah sure…
        7) Gregorian date? on a Jewish ‘Special’ Beis Din?!

        • i totally pity you, and, afilu, ad kama she yaduah lanu, he did not do boys in the mikveh. your comment is at the top of the emmy awards. kol hakavod. let’s meet, and i will translate english for you. pick a kosher mis’ada On UWS, AND I WILL PAY, HAVE YOU HAD BETTER OFFERS, WELL, ONE mIGHT SPECULATE SUCH. LO CHASHUV. my offer still stands. all of your questions are answered on the multitudinous comments on this blog site. ALL….. of them start reading………

    • I was also the only place on the internet to report about Rabbi Dovid Weinberger, formerly of Lawrence. It can now be confirmed that multiple rabbis in Lawrence feel he should never work again as a rabbi because of his sexual misconduct.

      • Actually, Rabbi Yudel Shain was warning against Dovid Weinberger on his Yudelstake blog for a couple of years before you got involved. Rabbi Shain was successful in shutting down Weinberger’s speaking engagements in Lakewood. Weinberger sent him a threatening lawyer’s letter but Rabbi Shain stood his ground and did not remove the information on Weinberger from his blog.

    • It is a complete lie. Nebuch on those who are thirsty to believe this is true so quickly. 2 very unhealthy girls made this up and accused him. Thousands of girls can testify against this. I being one of them. You can line up every single girl that ever attended his seminary and ask them point blank if they ever were touched and I can swear they will each say “no.” This is a lie. Made by 2 very unhealthy problematic girls. All I can say is Nebuch on them and Nebuch on those who believe this.

      • I don’t know how you can know who spoke to the bais din since they did not disclose it. Nor do you know how many young women they spoke to. I know it is easy to slander someone when you don’t like the bad news, but perhaps they are insecure which is why, like most other abusers, he honed in on them.

      • just because it never happened to you, does not mean that it hasn’t happened to others.
        when someone abuses their students its unlikely that its going to be the entire school. there are usually a few victims, and of they may not publicly admit it to you since its embarrassing.
        you are naïve if you do not believe this. the other rabbis would not sign this statement if they doubted its truthfulness.

      • Rabbi meisels ADMITTED TO IT, in person, to the Beis Din in Chicago. Call them and ask like I did!!!

          • OMG no one believe Asher!

            He is a liar! Someone has DEF paid you to post here on this site and lie.

            I called Rabbi Fuerst last night and he eagerly told me Meisles CONFESSED to them that he committed the actions.

            You are a fake! Shame on you!

        • So you all believe that a prominent Dayan, like Rabbi Fuerst, will be giving such details on a case like this to all who call? – Shame on YOU!

  3. IC, while i’m a big believer in going to police in most of these cases, it might not be the right avenue here. Seminary Girls are above the age of consent, and while many criminal statutes do criminalize behaviour that would otherwise be legal when it is between a teacher and a students, many others don’t, and often aren’t as strict in that situation. In a situation like this, it is quite possible to imagine scenarios that might be morally outrageous but technically not criminal. I’m not usually one for giving a beis din the benefit of the doubt, but It might just be that the Batai Din in this case are sticking what should be their arena, the Moral, not the Criminal. What a world it would be, if we had a beis din that would go above and beyond the protection of our children that could be found in the secular courts!

    • THIS IS FOR ASHER. I CANNOT RESPOND TO HIM DIRECTLY,. I THOUGHT HE WOULD BE M’LEAT GA’AVAH TO KNOW THAT HE IS THE ONLY PERSON AMONGST HUNDREDS OF POSTS, THAT CLAIMS TO HAVE CALLED THE b’d’ IN
      CHICAGO AND BEEN GIVEN A DIFFERENT ANSWER, THAN HUNDREDS OF OTHER PEOPLE. DYSLEXIA, ASPERGERS? ASHER, PLEASE GIVE US MORE DETAILS. BS GETS YOU NO WHERE ON THIS SITE, AS MANY HAVE LEARNED. ONLY EMES. SO WHAT EXACTLY DID THEY SAY, WHAT PHONE NUMBER DID YOU CALL, TIME OF DAY, NAME OF ANSWERING RABBI? ALL OF THIS IS VERY VERY CHASHUV.

  4. At least 2 of the seminaries (Peninim and Chedvas) are connected, either way, even if it was only girls from one of the seminaries, any seminary with which he is affiliated should be listed so people know where not to send their daughters.

  5. To clarify the above, I understand it is not exclusively an Agudah Bais Din, rather even from the interpretation of halacha as per the Agudah policy-which is rabbinic verification before a heter to go to police.

  6. IC – If victims are (understandably) unwilling to testify in open court, it would be impossible for charges to be filed. If this can protect other girls, which I think is most important, this is a good step IMO.

  7. ok great but what did they do to protect those harmed by Dudovitz at the chabad of Eli Turen there?

    • If you know anything about that case you would know measures were put in place (and actually enforced and monitored) six years ago. And it was one victim in that particular case, not a public menace.

    • I’m sorry I really cant believe that’s true, I had a very close relationship with Rabbi Meisels while I was in his seminary. I onced asked him if he ever touched a girl in seminary (I know that’s a bit outrageous to ask a rabbi but where I came from, rabbi’s weren’t always trustworthy) his response was that his beautiful wife was across the hall, why would he be interested in someone else.
      That response and the ‘pickup line’ dont go hand in hand. It’s clear you dont know him personally because that doesnt fit on with the way he speaks. Its disappointing that you would write something that you dont know it true forsure.
      I dont know what he did or didnt do as I wasnt there, but he was a great rabbi figure to me and a lot of my friends who are all appalled at this. This man helped a lot of girls, and saved some lies. You should watch what you say about him because even if a girl got hurt through this, you dont want to hurt other girls.

      • Riki M,

        You will have to wrap your mind around the fact that people can behave well with some and be abusive with others. The most important think to understand about abusers is that they look just like everyone else and their misconduct is usually in private.

        • I’m with Riki on this. I attended Pninim this year and was very close to rabbi Meisels. He helped me thru a lot and honestly saved me. I don’t claim to know everything but I spoke to him many, many times and in no way did I EVER feel uncomfortable. So unless I hear it straight from his mouth, I don’t believe it and neither should anyone else. He is a respected rabbi and there’s no reason for everyone to be discussing baseless rumors like these.

      • Omg! maybe you aren’t as attractive as you think you are and therefore, he wasn’t interested in you. Maybe he had a different taste….

    • I cannot say for certain what may or may not have happened, but I did know Rabbi Meisels personally and have a great deal of respect for him. I find it extremely difficult to believe that he would say something like that; that comment is extremely out-of-character for him. That alleged comment alone tells me that there is something entirely off about this situation. I don’t know what happened, but, knowing Rabbi Meisels, I am inclined to take everything I’ve been hearing about this situation with a large grain of salt, and I suggest that others do the same, particularly if they have never met him. (If you’ve noticed, nearly everyone who knows him personally have been insisting that it can’t be true).

    • Yerachmiel the BLOGGER and the Investigator, what’s next? the DAYAN?… – do us all a favor and take a running jump!

      • Asher, you are so adorable. you haven’t yet responded to my offer of a free dinner, i won’t bring the B’D’ with me nor the NYPD, LOL. just a pleasant talk. let me know, and btw, where have you been hiding out the last few days, protecting our Yidden al g’vul Gaza? oy, chas v’shalom, you are a satmar, assur…..We can go to deli kasbah, but they only have regular kosher, or lubavisher shechita. otoh, all coffee at Starbucks is kosher and you can, even , bring your own MUG. I will offer you a 40 block radius of Starbucks, please do come and chat, wairing with with bated breath….

        • Omg Chashdan STOP.

          All you have been doing is bashing ppl needlessly here! These comments of yours are of ZERO worth. I do not agree with this guy you responded to, but like I have said numerous times- think before you post!

          My goodness.

    • I contacted the Beis Din, that supposedly issued and signed this statement, like you said we should and they replied that they had nothing to do with this. Want to explain who forged this letter?

        • k and i received confirmation that they DO NOT affirm it. Something about this is not so kosher I would suggest everybody follow the motto “innocent until proven guilty” because so far I haven’t seen any substantial proof that leads me to believe this is true.
          FURTHERMORE EVERYBODY, A BLOG IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION AT ALL!
          sorry Lopin.

          • Again, I have spoken to several people to whom Rabbi Feurst confirmed the posted document. I can live with disagreements but I am beginning to suspect you are just not truthful.

      • NATMAN,

        ABSOLUTE LIE! I spoke to Rav Shmuel Fuerst myself two hours ago and he said it is 100% true, valid, and authentic. He also said the Beis Din’s letter was quite “nice” to the creep Meisels and they could have written A LOT more. He also said that what Meisels did will destroy seminaries in Eretz Yisroel because it creates a “kol” that all Rabbeim are creeps like him. Some obviously are, but the majority thankfully are not. Charlatans like Meisels and all the others who pick on the meek and prey on the defenseless need to be ousted and dealt with swiftly and a lot sooner. More power to you Yerachmiel, keep up your holy work, G-d Bless : )

      • Natman, Shame on you either for gross incompetence and slander or deliberate dishonesty and slander. Many individuals have spoken to rabbis Feurst and Cohen and confirmed the authenticity of the letter. I am sure Rav Schwartz will also confirm.

    • Are you saying this Beis Din is in the habit of disclosing information to people close to them and they in turn tell you?
      Yes you are saying that! Need we say more?
      Worthless ‘Hear Say’….

      • Asher, you wrote: “Are you saying this Beis Din is in the habit of disclosing information to people close to them and they in turn tell you?”

        They are not “in the habit”. However, according to the Beis Din “students in these seminaries are at risk of harm and it does not recommend that students attend these seminaries at this time.” It may be that the members of the Beis Din consider Meisels to be a rodef or some similar status which requires, for the safety of the public, that details be disseminated. Have you called one of them to ask?

        • Mr. Katzin you’re speculating. Nowhere in the Chicago letter does it say that he has a Din Rodef.
          That letter is a miserable attempt to ‘safeguard’ our children while exposing them to a far greater danger: ‘unjustice’.

          The letter states unequivocaly they did not ‘assume responssbillity’ the Israel Beis Din did.

          Did anyone find their differences ODD? Did you called them also? Or can you read?

          • Mr. Katzin is quite clear that he is speculating and not insisting he is sure about his inference. However, there is a logical basis to his inference. The major poskim (e.g., R. Yosef Shalom Elyashiv) dealing with sex abusers specifically note din rodef in allowing actions against them not otherwise allowed. Hence it is reasonable to speculate that percieving Meisels as a rodef may have factored into their halachic reasoning. Mr. Katzin is a Chicago resident quite familiar with their use of similar reasoning in a number of other cases.

            The Chicago Beit Din cannot assume responsibility for an Israeli institution, especially when a local beit din has been established.

            You are speculating when you talk about an injustice [to the seminary business and Meisels reputation]. How can you know the Chicago Beis Din is wrong?

            • The halachic basis to remove Meisels is kol. Many poskim say that even a single woman complaining creates a kol where a rabbi must be removed from his position. Some Rishonim & Achronim learn that even if a rabbi is acting slimy or sexually aggressive but never actually touched anyone, he can still be removed.

              Rodef does not come into play except in the case of minors or when using force against adults.

            • Asher is misinterpreting the Cherem d’Rabbeinu Gershom.

              The cherem, which is rooted in a klala in Mishlei, only applies when someone intercepts & opens a sealed letter addressed to someone else.

  8. IC, get your head out of the sand. Do you really think someone would be chutzpadik enough to put tzaddikims’ name on a letter and expect it to stand muster for even 5 minutes? And this letter has been posted around the Chicago community. If it was fake, one of the many talmidim of these Rabbanim would spread word of it being fake and that information would have disseminated quicker than the letter.
    Baruch HaShem the ladies you know who attended Meisels’s seminaries were not sexually abused. That doesn’t mean that others were not.

    May we be Zoche to having leaders throughout the Yiddishkeit world like HaRav Schwartz, HaRav Fuerst & HaRav Cohen.

    • like ‘Rav’ fuerst..ok he can learn ,,,but he has a history of strongarming and squeezing local koshers places re’;hoskocha….go ask the pizza place and others on devon go back not to long ago..these are the “leaders”

      • OK, the quibbling is starting. Are you or aren’t you accusing the beit din, as a whole of being either incompetent or corrupt. If not why the fussing about a single pizza operator? If yes, lay out your charges against the other two.

      • I don’t know exactly what you are referring to (Jerusalem Pizza?), but I do know that no man is perfect, even a Gadol like HaRav Fuerst. Is he or is he not doing the right thing here? Have there or have there not been too many Rabbonim who have looked to sweep these things under the rug?
        I have my own personal quibbles with some of the policies of two of three of these Rabbonim. But that will not change the fact that I admire their overall body of works and specifically their putting their names on this letter. I know that Meisels is a Telsher, so I hope R’ Schmeltzer & R’ Levine are also involved in getting to the bottom of this mess.

        • nice of you to “admire” a bais din ..thats not their job they are to render UNBIASED decisions ..that means no moola from stinkin nursing home bandits or others…TZEDEK that all

        • they wont bite the hand that feeds the telzer…also why is Rabbi D Kaplan a man above reproach involved ; i hope he didnt know anything but you never know

        • rabbi612, do you always throw the baby out with the bathwater? You don’t like some of HaRav Fuerst’s pskaim or actions so anything he is involved with must be bad?

          And as Yerachmiel said, lay out your taynas or explain why what this Beis Din did was wrong.

          • Just by way of information: The beit din normally includes Rabbi Levin, a rosh yeshiva at Chicago Telz in addition to rabbi Schwartz, a musmach of YU. In this way it is clearly representative of both major orthodox groupings in Chicago. In this case, Rabbi Feurst, a musmach of Telz was a stand in for rabbi Levin. In this way, Meisels will not be able to whine that the ruling came from a modern orthodox beit din. The first name, and likely av bais din, Rabbi Schwartz, is an exceptional talmid chacham, experienced dayan, and very intelligent man respected for his integrity. As much as a beit din can be trusted and respected, this one qualifies. His leadership position with the Chicago Rabbinical Council testifies to his high stature across the orthodox spectrum.

  9. Hi- can you tell me where this official letter was distributed and to who it was distributed? Thanks!

    • I do not know the distribution. However I got it from a reliable source in direct contact with the beit din. I have absolutely no doubt about its authenticity. But if you doubt it, call up one of the listed signatories.

        • There is an app on the iOS system called “smartlist”. You’ll need ask to get the Chicago directory downloaded. There might be an Android app, as well.

  10. pure lashon hara and you are sick for reporting this. this is a matter that shoul dbe dealt with confidentially etc. he is not molesting kids etc. there may have been a few girls who got a little too chummy chummy with their rebbe but he didn’t do anything wrong. hes a very fine persona and a tremendous talmid chochom and he has hundreds of people that would attest to that.

    • This falls into the category of bor bireshus harabbim (a dangerous pit in a public walkway which endangers those walking there). potential students and their parents should be alerted that if they send students there, they are at risk of destructive sexual entanglement. You choose not to accept the verdict of the bais din. they spoke to witnesses and gave Meisels a chance to defend himself. Why are you assuming his innocence, when the rabbis with the facts concluded he is guilty. You can be sure that these respected dayanim arew aware of the issue of loshon horah. Yet they concluded the conduct was harmful enough to publicize it.

      • Get Real – a talmid chochom goes to intellect — moral misdeeds stem from other areas . lets not mix up the two drives. without commenting on the accuracy of the report — one can be a talmid chochom and a choteh

    • Great and couragous people standing up for the children…A model for every other Ruv or Bais Din out there

    • He is a chazer and munuval and a shame to the Jewish community. He is doing a lot worse than molesting. This will be on every Jewish site that is courageous enough to report this. These seminaries are a danger to bnos yisroel! This is not lashon hara, this disseminating a psak from a very courageous bais din.

      • You have no idea what you’re talking abt. Rabbi meisles is a respectable man and although I agree he is more friendly than most rabbis he most certainly did not do anything wrong. I sont believe it for a second. I was very close with him and he helped me a lot. He always kept boundries. Its a lie

        • rivkah, would you bet your soul on that? you realize, that it is logistically inconceivable that he could have simultaneously molested every talmida, and still performed l’fi halacha with his wife. HE PICKED THE MOST VULNERABLE GIRLS, THE ONES most likely to go along with it. and still, he had halachik chova to “satisfy” his wife. don’t believe me, check it out. so just how many banot do you think over same period of time he could have “serviced”??? NOT a rhetorical question. naive is an understatement.

  11. No stationery head on the letter. I will call the signatures on the letter but anyone can type that letter and put the signatures on it.

    • The special beit din does not meet often and has no need to publish letterhead. I repeat, if you doubt the authenticity of the signatures, contact the signatories. If three respected rabbis stand behind this text, this is a big deal. It is very, very unusual for orthodox rabbis to publicly call out their orthodox colleagues for sexual misconduct. This must have struck them as particularly egregious.

  12. OMG!!! He was always sooo inappropriate! Wayyy too friendly – this doesn’t shock me AT ALL. And please let it be known that while his sister is the principal of Seminar Yerushalayim HaChadash, he teaches classes there (or at least did a couple years ago) and therefore has plenty of opportunities, so to speak, with the Seminar girls as well. So creepy!!

    • So based on your experience with his inappropriateness and his having plenty of opportunities, he MUST have done it. Your day will come when you will be judged- I hope they are not as hasty as you have been to accept this.

  13. So I did call Rabbi Fuerst and he confirmed it’s not a forgery. So everyone please stop doubting the authenticity. He was however very tight lipped about specifics – just said to ask for a refund and not to send our daughter. However- I placed a call to One of the seminaries and when I hear back from them I will report what they have to say. I plan to demand to speak directly to rabbi Meisels himself. Mr. Lopin- what can your “sources” tell us about the accusers? In every story like this there is a “his, hers, and the truth” angle. We are not speaking about a child molester. It’s accused sexual misconduct. These are young women – and often his seminaries accept girls who have issues to begin with. (Troubled girls, drugs, emotional issues, bad home lives, etc…). I’m not at all blaming anyone- just curious about this scenario. For some reason – to me- something seem off.

    • I do not have the specifics. You are wrong that there is always his, her and the true version. Sometimes, one of the first two is the truth. In most such cases I know about, the girls are vulnerable and naive but not leading on or aggressive. Yes they truly regret what happened but these are relationships where the leadership, authority and status belongs to the rabbi. The question is not whether the young women are perfect. The question is whether the rabbi is to be trusted again in this role. The beit din which had access to facts it will not publicly reveal has clearly decided this was not a one time mistake but a persistant pattern of major abuse of authority. In most such cases, there is a great deal of manipulation.

      • There is a concept of strict liability — there are certain acts that irrespective of circumstances are not sunject to defense – if it happened the actor is guilty. Zero tolerance is a similar concept. A rbbi heading a charedi seminary is entrusted with young impressionable ladies and is subject to these standards — the why is not important — the what happened is — the bais edin can sort that out while protecting the identity of the victims and sparing the rest of us the details. kudos to you

    • Aimee, my daughters are still young but if they were seminary age, no amount of money could pay me to send to a Meisels seminary. It’s been a few years but suffice it to say R’ Meisels made comments that made girls blush PLENTY of times! THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE. Why wouldnt they be? And considering that he comes from what we can really call a dynasty of Meisels/Tresses, if this does get swept under the carpet, it’s only because of his family’s influence and that’s just a sad reality. Don’t be fooled.

      • How can you say that?? He said things to make girls blush and from there you’re stating that it makes sense that he did this? Just because its a comment online, it doesn’t stop this from being wrong.

        • Obviously, inappropriate comments are not the same as physical actions. Nevertheless, such comments are how many abusers initiate the grooming. If they get away with it they move onto more inappropriate comments and then to manipulations, seductions, and actions. This is also true in the secular world.

          In the haredi world, inappropriate comments are even more damning a clue because everyone knows the tight code of conduct. Inappropriate comments are an early technique for assessing resistance and conditioning potential victims to violations of norms of tznius.

        • Lopin-
          Whether or not this is true, you need to stop using words like abusers and molesters. He is neither. If it is true, what he has done is wrong, it was using his stature and position of power for sexual favors. But it WAS done with adults, so it is NOT sexual abuse or molestation.
          I don’t know you at all, whether you are a normal g-d fearing jew or a bleeding heart liberal who wants to see the orthodox community slandered. But you seem to want this to be true. I don’t think any of us can know the validity of the accusations without actually knowing who they came from and what they said. I am not saying the Bais Din is wrong, I am sure they did their best to look into it, but cases like this is he said-she said and there is a large margin for error. Have you heard of Brian Banks? He spent 5 years in jail on rape charges, after which the woman was recorded admitting she fabricated it all. His life and football career was ruined. https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/shutdown-corner/falcons-release-brian-banks-spent-five-years-prison-163301317–nfl.html
          I am not saying that is necessarily the case, but it is definitely a possibility, so for all those believing these accusations, I think we need to take it with a grain of salt since we do not know the sources of the accusations.
          And saying to former students that “you must have not been his type” and “abusers hide it well” is ridiculous. There was not a hint of impropriety for over 10 years. I know multiple former students of his who were easy targets, who were close to him, and he in no way took advantage of them…

          • Thank you for speaking up you are one hundred percent right . Mr lopian must really want this to be true and it is quite sad that this makes him feel like Hess helping the community. I know this is not true and I’d like everyone (mr . Lopian) included to realize how you can be ruining a totally frum amazing brother because of afew unhealthy girls who fabricated this story. Mr. Lopian if any rabbi is shown what you have been writing youd be banned from writing any more blogs. Their is a proper way of helping the community and this is not right. Especially because he is not guilty.

    • I was in Pninim this year and spoke to rabbi Meisels a lot. He helped me get thru many things and actually saved my life. I don’t know where I would be today if not for him. and NEVER did he say anything that made me ‘blush’ or feel uncomfortable in the slightest. Whatever the case is however, Pninim is still an amazing seminary. And either way rabbi Meisels will not be part of it so there’s no reason for girls not to go based on this rumor.

  14. My daughter went to Binas, and my cousin went to Pninim, and I can tell you that they only had the best things to say about Rabbi Meisels.

    • No one has accused Meisels of abusing every single girl or even most of them. It is perfectly possible your daughter and cousin had good experiences and the beit din report is also correct about Meisel’s misconduct with other girls in his seminaries.

    • GNS, and Gitty:
      I too attended pninim and chedvas. I was very close with rabbi meisels and would be the first person to defend him. he had a great and positive impact on my life as well.
      however one cannot ignore the hard facts. this is not something that I WANT to believe, but something that I MUST believe. my friend personally called rabbi feurst and he said that this story is 100% true.
      so who are we kidding? it may be hard and uncomfortable to believe, but don’t be ignorant.
      it’s ok to admit that you were wrong about someone.
      even though I’ve learned a lot from him, I cannot respect him anymore after what he has done.

  15. I can honestly say that it bothers me for any person to say that because they are seminary girls and can give consent that it is possible that it isn’t necessarily a criminal act. It takes a lot of courage to admit to what these women have been through and unless you have ever been through something like this you would never understand. The mere fact that it was brought to the beit din and they have made a determination based on the facts is better than many women get. These women deserve a right to a future and to not have to feel shame for how they chose to handle their situations and they should know that hopefully this will send a message to potentially save his next victim(s).

    • You wouldnt believe some of the girls that these seminaries attract. Extreme unhealth that Rabbi Meisels and his team did everything to help. I find it unsurprising if girls made this up. You wouldnt believe how much this is a lie. It is like saying that Rav Shmuel Feurst did this. Nebuch to those who believe this.

      • You also wouldn’t believe some of the menuvalim who work in this area and keep up public appearances of frumkeit but in private fulfill their sexual desires at the expense of vulnerable girls.

    • Chulent,

      ABSOLUTE LIE! I spoke to Rav Feurst myself. If you Google him you’ll get his phone number, call the line, and he’ll tell you the same thing. Boy, the hustlers and handlers that defend these perverts is truly unbelievable. You love crying lashon hora and all that and yet this animal is literally DESTROYING neshamos and families in Klal Yisroel. Please don’t dare respond that lashon hora can do that as well. I know that and get it, but it’s not similar to this example.

  16. People are not defined by their family, nor do the actions of a single family member have any bearing on the family. There are many fine families that have an unfortunate member within the unit that can perform actions that are not within society norm. A person does not – should not- have to answer to any actions that someone related to them have done which may have caused agony to people. You cause your credibility to sink by dragging innocent people intothe fray. You have now caused whole families to be looked at with distaste and horror just because they may share the same name as his mother’s mother, and may be a 4th cousin- but now are instead part of ‘that’ family, the one which has a abuser within them. You should be ashamed to post such things, whether or not it is true. Why should you want to cause hard to people not connected to the crime ?

    • I am slightly curious as to how you can be opposed to the knowledge of a person who has caused harm to another. How would you feel if it was a child and an adult did it, was convicted and had to register as a sex offender? You do realize that is done for the SAFETY of others and so no one else can get hurt, what makes this form of knowledge any different? People who think living a life ignorant and uninformed is protecting yourself, well it’s not you become as much a danger and threat to those around you for not keeping them safe!!!

    • RAg, I am sure there are many fine people in the Tress and Meisels families. I do not believe in guilt by association. I trust my readers to be fair and to not visit the sins of elimelech on others. On the other hand, anyone familiar with the frum world knows that families with yichus are able to get away with things that would not be acceptable for others. So there are good reasons to identify the yichus of someone.

  17. SA – I said he said inappt. things in seminary classes. I never said he touched a girl, or another of the like. All I said is I am NOT surprised. Seminary rabbis should not have girls sitting only an arm’s reach from him, hanging on his every word with a full face of makeup they put on for HIS class. That doesn’t discredit the great classes he gave or the great things he has done for countless girls, but if he can’t be a milliion percent trusted then thats where the buck stops. Even if I didn’t know the guy, I would never send my daughters or sisters to a seminary run by someone even ACCUSED of such things.

  18. My daughter was supposed to go to one of his seminaries next month. I confirmed the veracity of this letter with Rabbi Cohen myself, and my friend was informed by Rabbi Fuerst that it is a legitimate letter. He also told her that it is asur to send a girl to one of those seminaries if Rabbi Meisels is involved.

    I have never responded to a blog like this, and will hopefully never need to again.

    Someone above claimed that the beis din did not affirm this letter. Perhaps that reader thought it was the CRC beis din, and checked with them? This is the special beis din in Chicago that was formed to deal with sexual abuse allegations. Sorry to say, it is real.

    • It isnt real. And hopefully within the next couple weeks a new letter will be written by Rav Shmuel Feurst with clear description that this was made up and is untrue. What a mess. 2 unhealthy girls make up a lie and dont know the ramifications of their actions. I know these girls, and boy oh boy will they have din v’cheshbon after 120.

      • I stake my reputation on the fact that the bais din of those three met, listened to multiple witnesses and rendered this verdict. I cannot imagine them reversing themselves.

      • What is your proof it is not true? The rabbis’ letter said meisels ADMITTED what he did. Who told you the girls were “unhealthy” ??? I’m guessing you are either one of meisels groupies, a relative of his or one of his employees trying to guard her parnassa. Get real. Abusers are typically charming and manipulative on the surface. And they shame girls into not telling- i.e. You will never get a shidduch. It’s a shanda that so many women and teachers at these seminaries covered up for this man over the years and would not accept and tell the truth about meisels because they cared more about their parnassa working at the schools than the girls they were supposed to be protecting. Abusers typically have charismatic and charming personalities. Think jerry Sandusky and a former U.S. President who ruined a young girl’s life when she was a White House intern. It is disgraceful for you to publicly disrespect the esteemed rabbi fuerst and these other brave rabbis who were willing to risk their reputations to protect innocent girls.

        • Wow Tova T. Clearly you need to learn reading comprehension and learn reading comprehension.
          Nowhere in the letter does it say that Meisels ADMITTED ANYTHING. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you talk.
          And your version of history is comical: Bill Clinton did not ABUSE Monica Lewinsky, not did he ruin her life. She was a consenting adult who made a choice, and she made a lot of money out of the deal. Jerry Sandusky is not an accurate comparison either. He was molesting underage boys. The accusations are that Meisels had inappropriate sexual touching with girls over 18. That is wrong, but it is not comparable to a underage boys.
          “I’m guessing you are either one of meisels groupies, a relative of his or one of his employees trying to guard her parnassa. ”
          This is a ridiculous accusation. You have no way of knowing the accusations are true. So why don’t you shut your mouth until we know all the facts instead of further slandering a person and his whole family.

  19. If you want to post stories about other people while you convince yourself that your doing it just to help people… Then ok that we could live with but to drag in the tress name and a tzadddik who you should only dream of being like Reb Elimelech Tress that’s just simply disgusting and may you one day have to answer for such a sin!!!!!!(among your many other sins)

  20. The worst thing here is the ad/screenshot below your article. There is a woman with bare arms, ankles, and feet. She is in a very alluring and pritzusdike pose.

    • the way google and other search engines work is that the adds that come on your page is related to what you have recently searched for on the internet. Therefore is you have inappropriately dressed ladies on your ads it may have to do with something you or your family ave looked at. For example I ordered something from Kohls department store and now i have Kohls ads on my page as well as other ads having to do with kitchen things because I ordered a kitchen item form Kohls. I also have ads on my page about elliptical’s because i was researching them. Hope that explanation was helpful.

    • I am going to reprint what “Kevin in Chicago” posted earlier. I do the same thing for the same reasons.
      “Mr. Box, and anyone else, I take your word for what you saw, but never saw it because my Firefox browser has a little free add-on called “Adblocker.” (I don’t know whether it is available for other browsers, but it probably is.) I installed it because I dislike distraction, sexual or otherwise. I suppose that if everyone used it, on-line ads would lose their value and bloggers would lose some revenue, but there must be idiots out there who actually like dancing ads jumping out at them, or the programmers wouldn’t design them. And if for some reason you want to see the ads on a website, you can always turn Adblocker off from a menu on your browser.”

  21. Did anyone ever think that maybe a bunch of girls who were angry at Rabbi Meisels for throwing them out got together and created this scenario? Everyone knows that the only way to completely ruin a mans life is accusing him of sexual abuse because there is absolutely NO way to prove it,.. And honestly even if he did do it- why should everyone know about it? It only affects the people that are involved- it has ABSOLUTELY no impact on the seminaries, especially as he is not working in any of the seminaries anymore. Each of his seminaries are fantastic places and there is no reason one should withdraw their daughter from seminary due to as of now baseless allegations. Rabbi Meisels is NOT a danger to humanity so unless every man out there wants every time they inappropriately lusted after a girl or maybe even slept with one…you may want to back down. Airing other peoples dirty laundry gets you nowhere and could in fact stab you in the back. So maybe you want to rethink this whole thing.

      • Mr. Lopin, you are doing an excellent job standing up for the courageous rabbis of the Chicago beis din who are protecting countless innocent neshamas by outing this narcissistic abuser. My guess is many posts supporting meisels are from his friends or employees trying to protect their jobs. Meisels surely has gotten rich off his portfolio of seminaries and is a powerful man. Thanks to you and the Chicago rabbis for standing up to a sex abuser, all the more so because he is a rich and powerful man with “yichus” and many admirers from whom he has successfully hidden his true self. I feel sorry for his wife and children. Thanks for your excellent reporting and responses!!

        • “Meisels surely has gotten rich off his portfolio of seminaries and is a powerful man.”
          He doesn’t need the money. He has successfully helping girls for years without a hint of impropriety.
          Lopin- Maybe that is how molesters are generally defended, but that doesn’t make the possibility of it being true…

    • generally, reputable attorneys in the secular world will not take a case on the basis of one complaint for exactly that reason. I believe the bais din is at least that cautious. However when multile complaints are received and analyzed the sad truth becomes evident.

    • Sam, @7/11 @5:22PM.
      you are effin disgusting and dangerous. To repeat your above quote “and could in fact stab you in the back”. very heavy language for a frum yidden. Gam if you meant it metaphorically, and gam if you meant it literally, chas v’chalilah. You almost sound like the Mafia. efshar you are a Satmar or Skver??? myfrih. kol tuv,
      Oh, yes, one more thing, Hypothetically, I would pay megabucks to know your real name and address. Just a fantasy, of course….. TY.

    • Sam, you are absolutely correct. A sick person can accuse another. However, professionals in this field are experienced at vetting individuals, victims and witnesses. Presumably, a b’d also has that skill (requiring 2 aidim to prove a criminal matter, or one eid on a civil matter). It is inappropriate to simply throw out an allegation that 2 people can accuse someone and it will become public news. That is an absolute falsehood. These public cases have been thoroughly vetted, examined, and cross-examined. Only then do these allegations get made public. Moreover, the b’d interview the offender himself. That only proves due diligence and truth.

      To date, Im still waiting for the public case that turned out to be a total lie. We have read countless accusations on this and other sites, yet, they’ve always been proven true and upheld.

  22. Yes- I also confirmed that Rabbi Fuerst did sign the document in question. I spoke with him myself. I also spoke with another Rabbi in touch with the Bais Din in EY -and Rabbi Meisels was told to sell his seminaries and have nothing to do with them any longer. I plan to confirm this with the seminaries on Sunday.
    I also found out from one of my sources that this Chicago Bais Din letter was not intended to be public- just supposed to go to principles of Girls High schools.

  23. 1. FE, the language of the letter states ‘including unwanted contact of a sexual nature’ which is illegal regardless if a person is above the age of consent or not.
    2. M.A.C-I understand that many victims in many communities don’t come forward for many reasons, my question is what have we done to encourage & support people who do and have come forward. In many cases we they have not been offered enough support.
    3. Jimmy-I think you confused me with some one else, I never challenged the authenticity of the letter.
    4. Trust me I know about the difficulties involved with having victims come forward and testify, but the question must be asked if a claim that a person has had multiple instances of “unwanted contact of a sexual nature” with adults or children is investigated and found to be credible is there then not an obligation to go to police? I don’t know the details of the above case other than outlined in the letter but I think my question stands, practical difficulties aside.
    Wishing all a good Shabbos.

    • IC, I agree, but sometimes the victims are simply not willing to go to the police. Almost no prosecutor will compel an unwilling sex offense victim to testify. There needs to be some major changes in the orthodox community for more victims to come forward to the police.

  24. Whilst frumfollies and other blogs do an excellent job of reporting, sometimes it is taken too far. I do not think that the Chicago Beis Din had a choice however I know Rabbi Meisels personally, my wife was in Pninim; and I do NOT believe one word. It is important to point out that Rabbi Meisels has been cooperative, he did speak to the Beis Din in Chicago, and it looks like he will cooperate with the Beis Din here.

    • I am confused. You say they heard his side of the story (as they should have). So why are you going on your personally liking him and not on the evidence which the bais din had and you don’t. Try and comprehend that sexual abusers can look and behave totally normal, even very positively in every other respect but in private they manipulate and abuse.

      • You are wrong, I am a past graduate of pninim and I k now rabbi meisels well. He would never do anything bad to anyone. He may come across as very friendly which is what alot of the girls needed but These are all lies. If you ask many of his talmiddos they will agree with me. Their were a bunch of unhealthy girls who decided to ruin the rabbis whole life. He is an amazing man and no one should believe these lies. You can call up the names and they will not admit it. No one should believe this unless proven guilty.

        • If this is the current story, your admissions committee needs to be completel overhauled. OMG, admitting bnot yisrael capable of slandering their beloved rabbi, the golden calf, Fire them all, tsarich l’haros et hakol, v’lihatchil me chadash. that would be the normal reaction. but in this case, i, chasdan, maligned here, am willing to make huge monetary bet that measles is guilty as sin. So far, no one has taken me up on it. say i am crazy, but when the money hits the fan, yours and mine, the escrow lawyer or rabbi, or whoever, we shall see just how crazy i am, you perverts. protecting measles at the expense of the souls of our beautiful b’not Yisrael. i’m still waiting for one of you who have accused me of being crazy, to put your money down. I am DEAD SERIOUS.. TRUTHSEEKER, YOU ARE A KID, get your parents to place a bet. it will, if you are correct, pay for all of those years of semenary. past and future. please, anyone? I am DEAD SERIOUS. BETTING THAT THE MEASLES IS AN ABUSER.. say what you will, oh, i must have been molested or whatever story you think works best, but here you have a hizdamnut to cover years of kollel. wife does not even need to work, you can study yom vlayla, while your religiious zionist brothers (aka amalek per your rebbes) protect you, step up to the bat, someone????

          • Omg

            Did you not see the polite request of Yerachmiel just recently?

            You actually sound like you’re on crazy pills and forgot to take your dosage for the night. It’s sad bc I am not trying to pick a fight. I am just being honest.

            You sound insane (apologies if you actually DO have a mental disorder. I mean it).

            Please respect Yerachmiel’s wishes and calm down.

            You’re embarrassing yourself in front of everyone.

            So sad.

            • cretin, hope your kids get genetic material from their father. did they cut your pay? fake?

            • Chashdan, since you earlier complimented me (thank you) I hope you can hear this. In your more recent posts you seem ignorant of the fact that truthseeker wrote that she spoke with Rabbi Fuerst, and was devastated by his confirmation. You seem to treat her as if she were seeking to defend Meisel or minimize what he did. I’m sorry to say you are sounding out of control. I know you are sincere and a long-time commenter here, and that the voices of denial can provoke one to anger, but your anger is becoming uncontrolled and indiscriminate. I have nothing against you, but I don’t understand why you think truthseeker deserves this treatment, and at this point you are only hurting yourself. Please stop for now. It is doing no one any good. Good night.

            • i hear you, thank you kevin, i still believe she is a phoney and a fraud, you can believe as you wish. However, if you were to go back 2 or 3 days, and read ALL OF HER COMMENTS. IN CHRONOLOGICAL order, it is possible that you might evaluate differently. . Thanks for your kind concern. that is a big task, and i doubt that you would be sufficiently motivated to do such. In that case, only time will tell. I will be on vacation until next monday, the 21st, let us see then, if there are any developments. hope you had an easy fast.

      • The Beis Din has NOT once stated that Rabbi Meisels definitely did anything wrong. Convening a Beis Din must happen when a complaint is lodged, that is responsibility of a Beis Din. I agree that unfortunately there are far too many cases of sexual abuse in our communities. I however know the background here, and know for sure that the Beis Din was compelled to publicize matters because the well connected complainant insisted on this when Rabbi Meisels asked for a Beis Din in Israel. There has been ONE complainant who is known by many involved to be spewing lies. I am confident that the truth will come out.
        As for Rabbi Meisels withdrawing all educational involvement from the sems involved. That was the responsible way to act. He agreed to this already more than a month ago. He did not want to harm the other teachers or students by association whilst the Beis Din is still pending.
        Yerachmiel: Your blog seems very vehement. I don’t know your background. I believe that news blogs provide a useful source of information, however the very second you take sides you immediately lower the public respect of you as a reliable news source. Calling statements made by many “malarkey” and going beyond releasing the information readily there turns you into an unreliable source of news, and defines you as a blogger who is portraying a personal opinion. You now immediately cross over into a line of deliberately damaging people’s reputations and motzi shem ra.
        The readily available information are the letters released by the 2 Batei Din. Rabbi Meisels was accused of things. He has for the sake of the education of the girls in the sems and the teachers withdrawn whilst the accusations are heard in depth by a Beis Din, in Israel – where he lives so he can properly defend himself. The Beis Din involved is respected and will release a decision when it does. In the meanwhile there is no risk to the sems because the accused is no longer involved on an educational basis. (I personally say there would be no risk because Rabbi Meisels is innocent, however I am not hiding that I support Rabbi Meisels).
        I would also advise all bloggers that when Rabbi Meisels is proven innocent, which I am confident he will be, he has the right to taking legal action against those spewing the vehement and blatant lies against him. I sure as hell hope he does!

    • I have the same question as annex, and am hoping that YL. or some other religious samchut, perhaps the beis din, can explain how that is at all possible and legitimate and kosher. ????? jfc, they need to wear opaque stockings, they need to cut their wigs down to short length, all so that the charedi mens’ brains do not migrate daromah (south). How can it be that this minuval was teaching a clas of females, with some sitting with an arm’s length of him????? FFB or BT it doesn’t really matter, How was this ever allowed. One of my daughters studied afor a month in the summer in an ortho yeshiva. This is for sure, not the norm.

      Please, YL , someone explain how this ever came to be? and how did the parents paying for their precious daughters’ education in medinat yisrael never question the propriety of this education. I am clearly not frum (although my daughter is BT).
      So efshar there is some secret ingredient to which i am not privy???????

      • You ask a great question!! The sad secret is that many people in the orthodox community are either totally naive or afraid to stand up to powerful rich “rabbis” with “yichus” like meisels. I agree with you there is no reason for male rabbis or teachers to be so “close” to these seminary girls. I hope your daughter is having a good experience in Israel, but please let her know not to trust any man just because he is a rabbi or wears a black hat. Sexual Abusers are very manipulative and girls must be taught that the people they are closest too and trust the most can be rapists or abusers, this goes both for religious and secular people as well. Think date rape. Sadly, you are seeing the worst of the orthodox community in meisels, but this is not the norm. There are many wonderful orthodox people and as a Baal teshuva for many years I think it’s a very meaningful and fulfilling way to live. Also, the Chicago rabbis and mr. lopin are brave and admirable men – this shows the true goodness that can be found in the orthodox community. May Hashem bless you and your daughter.

  25. I was in pninim for two years, Pninim is a very chilled seminary with chilled out Rabbi and thats how they get thru to their girls and save hundreds of souls. I was very close to Rabbi Meisels and there is no way in the world this could have happened. Pninim is the home to many troubled girls and its not so hard to make up such a story and have bais din believe it.
    I am discussed and horrified that ppl have the audacity to speak so negatively abt such a special man who helped klal yisroel in countless ways. Our brothers in Israel are risking their life fighting Hamas and other terrorist groups, instead of us learning and praying for the safety of Israel and the idf were listening, believing, and spreading lashon hara then we wonder why mashing isn’t here….

    • Since you went to Pninim are you saying you were a troubled girl? I know many fine girls from perfectly good homes that were not at all troubled that went to Pninim and his other seminaries. Why are you frum girls so stupid and naive?? The bais yaakov schools need to do a much better job of explaining to girls that people are not always what they seem to be on the surface. It’s great that you had a good experience with meisels but it is undisputed that he sexually abused others. My guess is you were not his “type” so he didn’t go after you. I’m sick of hearing of all the supposed souls he saved. The Chicago rabbis did their research and meisels admitted his crimes to them, as the letter states. Do yourself a favor and Stop being so naive. Why is this rabbi so “close” to so many girls?? It’s weird!! Is that was seminary is for?? To have parents pay lots of $$ to send there daughters away from their safe homes so they can be “close” to rabbis that could care less about them?? These seminaries are money making institutions and create an unhealthy environment and too many opportunities for male “rabbis” to get close to girls and acquire groupies. I hope the authorities in Israel will keep a better watch and I wonder if there is any need for men to be involved at all at girls seminaries. I hope you wise up for your own sake. Sadly, People are not always what they seem.

      • Tova T.,

        Bless your heart! Why are yeshivish Bais Yaakov girls so dumb and naive? Do they really think their Rabbis are not men? Were they somehow excluded from this little pesty thing we call a yetzer hara? The posuk of “כי יצר לב האדם רע מנעוריו” was said about men. The Gemara says NOONE is above Arayos. NOONE! It doesn;t matter how yeshivish they are and how big their peyos are. Ridiculous. Please tell the girls to wake up, keep to themselves, wash off their makeup, perfume, and tight clothing for seminary classes, and keep the good Rabbis to their wives. Girls also need to learn to stop being so dumb about flirting with Rabbis. That obviously DOES NOT mean that the victims somehow “asked” for it or “wanted” it G-d forbid, but it does mean that girls should recognize their bodies, recognize they are attractive and enticing, and be aware of it and protect themselves. ,

        • Joseph,
          While I 100% agree with you that Rabbis battle the same impulses as everyone else, no one defending Rabbi Meisels is claiming that it can’t be true simply because he is a Rabbi. They are saying it can’t be true because they know Rabbi Meisels personally. I knew him personally as well, and he is the last person I would have expected to be accused of such things. I do not claim to know what may or may not have happened, but I just find it hard to imagine Rabbi Meisels, IN PARTICULAR, engaging in the acts he has been accused of, not Rabbis in general. I just wanted to make that clear.

        • When they taught you the possuk about rechilus (slander) did they tell you it ends with “lo saamod al dam reyachah (do not stand by idly on the blood of another)?”

        • Shmiras halashon has no place when discussing a rodef. Imminent danger is certainly a concept in halacha, and people need to be warned. Of course, the abusers LOVE shmiras halashon as the ignorant rubes like yourself use it as an excuse to provide cover for abusers. No more. The word is out.

  26. Chaya,
    Think about this; chances are more Jewish kids & teens were molested this year by other Jews than were injured by Hamas. Chances are even that more Jewish kids will commit suicide or overdose from drugs this year as a result of untreated trauma stemming from childhood sexual abuse than will be murdered by Hamas.
    Yes we pray for the safety & success of the IDF & our brothers and sisters in Israel but this issue continues to not be given the attention it deserves. We have history of enabling predators and failing to alert the general public about dangerous people in our community , let alone holding them actually responsible and doing what is necessary to stop them from hurting kids and teens.
    If it helps you thinks of sexual abuse predators as Hamas missiles that find there mark way more often than rockets fired from Gaza.

    • IC,
      PERFECTLY STATED, L’DAAVONI HARAV. The entire community is in denial, and the unfortunate belief that one perp’s (individual molester’s) actions carry backward to current or former relatives or forward or laterally to siblings or successor generations is responsible perhaps largely to the desparate attempt to bury the crime in the sand. even if one’s children have been irreparably damaged. How can parents thus sacrifice their own precious children, otsarim???? on the altar of some supposed “yichus”????? Are not our children the most precious thing in the world? Are not our children the reason being Jewish and staying Jewish has any importance? Sacrifice the kids, and you may as well be a heathen. The word “yichus” should be deleted from the Yiddissche mentality.

      • I started reading this and I couldn’t continue. tears filled my eyes as I realize what was going on. Whether these allegations are true or not is none of our business! Rabbi Meisels is no longer part of any of his school and has nothing to do with them. So now what is your problem??? All you are doing is spreading loshon hara and for what?? You are scared for your daughters safety-its dealt with he is no longer in the school. Look at you!! A bunch of low lives putting other people down! Upu are ruining someone’s life!! This could have been dealt with privately and instead you are thriving on putting every bit of juicy detail out in the open. Hashem has His ways and he will do what is best.it is not our business to take revenge. We have the obligation to make sure this our children are safe-since the rabbi is no longer part of the school system then there is nothing to worry about. I have a very close relationship with the rabbi and all I can say is that I owe my entire life to him and his school. What you are doing is heartless and just to boost your own ego. I mean look at you! You have a frum gossip blog!!! People, look around you. Pur brothers are dying in war and this is what we are doing. The Arabs gave us 18 days of complete hell where we came together a d cried for our most brothers. The achdus that was never seen before. And now the Satan is laughing at our patheticness-he gave us this test to see if we would stay strong hand in hand or stab each other in the back. AND WE ARE LOOSING!!!! Mashgiach is already here ready to save us from all these horrible stories and WE ARE THE ONES THROWING HIM OUT THE DOOR!! The Satan is laghing at out cowardice – the Arabs had to be the ones to bring us together and we are the ones who will destroy the unity we formed. There is no reason why this loshon hara has to continue on the internet. Pninim is a safe place – ask the thousands of student who can testify. I am the number one Pninim fan and I swear to you that by convincing people not to go you are making the worse choice of your life. You have no right to take such responsibility on your shoulders. But as I said before, Hashem takes the best revenge and He will punish all the people who deserve it. We will just look back and watch. To everyone out there, stop reading all this garbage about one of your brother. This man lives for posting incriminating things about people on the web. The second Shabbos was over he opened this web page with hungry eyes to write more dirt on this man. Pick up a tehilim and pray for our brothers father and sons who are risking their lives for us. Instead of pushing mashgiach away with this loshon hara, greet him with open arms with words of kedusha. I am a soldier in hashem army. And I fight for personal growth and for becoming a better person. I fight for Pninim who has given me the life I now am proud of. I have full emunah that what is meant to happen will happen and that hashem will play everything out as it’s supposed to be. So I will pray for our brothers at war , but I will also pray for all the ppl who spread such loshon hara and drown us in the galus that we are about to come out of. What side are you on?
        JP- proud product of Pninim

        • Contrary to what you write there has been no public confirmation that Elimelech Meisels admits his misdeeds and agrees to remove himself from all such work in the future. Until that happens, “MR. Meisels” as the beis din called him needs to be exposed to keep others safe.

    • Wether the comparing of sexual abuse predators to Hamas rockets is accurate or not is very debatable. Additionally, at this point there is no confirmation either way of what rabbi Meisels did or didn’t do (altho as his student I am certain that it is just a malicious, baseless rumor made up by those who have a bone to pick with him.) But in either case, discussing it and spewing loshon hora isn’t helping anyone.

  27. Where’s Belsky? he will defend meisels-It’s all follies etc.
    The Rabonim of the chicago concluded there was nothing between the girls and meisels?

    • After Belsky got verbally slapped publicly by many 5T rabbis for defending Weinberger he has gotten shy. But if anyone has the chutpah to defend a pervert rabbi, it is Belsky. So we will have to wait and see whether he joins the fray.

      • Let’s place some bets here on Belsky retaining his spots. My bet is that, perhaps not immediately, but we shall have a Belsky vindication of Meisels, that is, if Belsky does not first get a phone call from the FBI for other known issues……If he were smart, he would go into a very very tight deep tsimtsum and never re-emerge.

  28. These accusations are completely false. I attended pninim seminary this past year, and i can honestly say that Rabbi Meisels is the most respectable Rabbi. Hes a huge talmid chacham, who has saved and helped many people. I have spoken to him many times and he never made me feel uncomfortable , his wife was right next door to him, and he always spoke properly and respectfully.
    Instead of focusing on the real tragedys and things going on in the world and Eretz yisroel, people are just sitting and ruining an entire life and family of someone based on lies.

    • Is it just a “coincidence “that many posters here claim to have spent many hours talking with the Rabbi? A man should not spend so many hours with younger female students as per Kitzur Shulchan Aruch.

  29. Why go back and forth on here? It’s wonderful to hear that Meisels did some good/great things. However- folks- two separate Beis Dinim ruled against him and labeled him a danger to young women. Period. He very well may be a great friend, person- saved girls going off the derech etc… But the facts remain the facts. Israeli Beis Din has forced him to retire and have nothing to do with the seminaries. My mother, a”h, used to say- if it acts like a fish, it looks like a fish, and smells like a fish- it’s a FISH!

    • Only one beis din has ruled on this case. R Meisels has stepped down before the chicago beis din published their ruling. He will not be teaching in any of these seminaries. So everything posted here is loshon hara because there is no toeles. Take it or leave it but the girl making the accusation is disturbed unhealthy and has accused him of an end of the year hug . I can’t divulge my source but the former students posting here know exactly what I am taklking about this girl is off and creepy. There are political issues here as well as a certain Rav wants him to sell his schools. Consider this if he really didn’t do this you have destroyed a person, his parnassah and the trust that people have in those who sacrifice their lives for education. Will you gamble with your olam haba?

      • There has been no confirmation that he removed himself from all work with girls vulnerable to him. In most other such cases, even after people promise to step down they make comebacks in one or another role. There is definitely a toeles (public safety consideration) in letting people know not to trust MR. Meisels. Beyond that people have to understand that just because somebody is walks, talks and waddles like frum duck does not mean that it is impossible for him to be a fraud in private who is a sex offender. The many comments here saying “I Know him and he could not have done it” show the mindset that must be challenged.

      • I would think the Beis Din of Chicago would not render such a letter because of a ‘hug’ to one girl. They know MORE than anyone does and so do his victims. It would be foolish and harmful to send one’s child to any school he controls. If what you say is true, that he resigned from all seminaries, that in itself indicates his guilt.

    • Please explain or post what the Israeli beis din did. Is if true meisels will be forced to retire and stay away from his seminaries?? How will they enforce that? There needs to be a lot more oversight of these Israeli seminaries especially with men teaching girls. It makes me question the value of seminary at all. I don’t understand why frum Jews are so quick to send their kids away from home both for high school, camp and seminary. It seems an unnecessary expense and does not promote close family. We should all remember that seminaries are money making enterprises and ask what do our girls truly gain from the experience and what Are the risks of being away from home.

      • Tova T and all others,

        I am a little sick of the comments of all Rabbis shouldn’t be working in any seminaries. That’s a little nuts. A lot nuts. Yes “ain apotropos l’arayos” and obviously all men have horrible yetzer hara’s, but we are also taught and work on controlling them. There is an opinion in the Gemara in the end of Kiddushin about not using women for anything, and we don’t posken like that. Tosafos says that we are somaich on not paskening like that opinion. It may be a sad reality, but IT IS reality. I’m shocked that I don’t see you crusading around and saying no frum secretaries in frum offices or no women working in any situation with men around. And even if you would say all of that, it’s not a cure. Men need to work on controlling themselves and we need appropriate boundaries to prevent unnecessary and inappropriate mingling. And there are many levels of depth of Chazal’s, learning Navi B’Iyun, Parshah, and broad knowledge of Torah that women are just not equipped for. It’s not a claim against them, but they don’t have the years of knowledge of yeshivah studying. It’s just the facts.

        Second, why is no one discussing the frum female teachers, VPs, or Eim Bayits that covered up for this pervert. That is obviously the case. There is no way a Rabbi is sexually inapporpriate with girls and no female teacher knows. IMPOSSIBLE. So, the answer is, not only Meisels needs to be ousted, but the people who covered up for him also do. I specifically asked Rav Feurst this question and he said “removing Meisels is not enough, and only until the Beis Din has proof that things have changed will the Beis Din agree to these seminaries, and after that we will absolutely write a new letter.” That’s what he said to me on Friday. These women who covered up for him for “parnassah” or “fear” or being “melameid zechus” are “asid litain es hadin” for their crimes and I hope they beg the victims for forgiveness. Also, YL, his sister runs Seminar and I haven’t heard you say anything about that and the BD’s letter doesn;t mention that. I’ve heard he speaks there, if you can confirm it it’d be great. And yes, Tova T., seminaries are sick money-making institutions. Obviously,

      • Tova T.,
        i asked this elsewhere today, and probably commented in a n inopportune place.
        BTW, my daughter, BT, did her one month in Israel seminary about 3 years ago. She is smart and savvy, and brought up secular. My as yet unanswered question, is, with Mr. Meisels being so very very close to so many young ladies (and it seems as if all of them are here on this site today), and he “saved so many lives’ was all of this closeness to so many girls, and saving lives always done in Yichud. I think that’s the word, i,e, either with other people present, or door of room fully opened in place where people were likely to come and go, affording no opportunity for him to be alone with a female student. Just wanted to be sure using correct terminology, as everyone on this site is most likely frum. Was he abidiing by the laws of Yichud, and if not, is that alone, all by itself a MASSIVE RED FLAG, that should have given pause to every one of these seminary girls. I mean, this year in Israel was not their first exposure to frumkeit, no matter how problematic their lives might have been. And being that it is hard to imagine that he abided by those laws, but not passing judgment yet, what about all of the female teachers there, did not any of them feel that this was lo kasher, indefensible. opaque stockings and private closed door meetings with multitudes of young ladies who worship you…..

    • Sarah, and all other out there. I am actually very closely related to the whole story and will state with absolute certainty that Rabbi Elimelech Meisels is NOT a danger to anyone and is not a child molester in any way. He had a large argument with the Chicago Bais Din and was trying his best to compromise with them and they wouldn’t hear of it. He already handed over all of his seminaries to their respective vice principals, at least a month ago. The Chicago Bais Din has some very powerful people pushing them to continue this case and so they published this letter in an effort to ruin his life once and for all. This is malicious slander and they will all rot in hell for the trouble they have caused and the lives of him and his family, which they have ruined.

      • Let me be sarcastic: Yeah the Chicago mob coerced three highly respected rabbonim to do one of the rarest of things, denouncing another rabbi publicly to ruin him.

        Now, let’s get back to being serious: no beis din likes publicly chastising another rabbi. This is especially ticklish for Rabbis Levin and Feurst since they are with Telz; Elimelech Meisels and his father both went to Telz and are big supporters of Telz. This could hurt Telz with a wealthy influential family. Telz is not doing that well financially. These rabbis did not act for rich, powerful families. They acted because a valid complaint was brought to them and after investigation they concluded Meisels is a dangerous man. The true scandal of the orthodox world is that most other rabbis are afraid to take such action when they learn about disgusting exploiters like Meisels.

    • @sarah. I hope you are 100% certain and have complete and totally proof that BOTH beis din trials going on have ruled h guilty. Because what i believe is that you are clearly misinformed because you saw that one letter from the chicago beis din. That letter CLEARLY states that they have handed the case completely over to the rabbanim in bnei brak to deal with it. And as far as im concerned those rabbanim NEVER ruled him guilty pr as a molester. You go and think what you want, but before you publicize your sick thoughts you better make sure that they are FACTS and not just thoughts you made up and convinced yourself are true. This is someones life your ruining here. He has a wife and several young children. I hope you are aware of that when speaking this loshon hara.

    • @sarah. I hope you are 100% certain and have complete and totally proof that BOTH beis din trials going on have ruled him guilty. Because what i believe is that you are clearly misinformed because you saw that one letter from the chicago beis din. That letter CLEARLY states that they have handed the case completely over to the rabbanim in bnei brak to deal with it. And as far as im concerned those rabbanim NEVER ruled him guilty or as a molester. You go and think what you want, but before you publicize your sick thoughts you better make sure that they are FACTS and not just thoughts you made up and convinced yourself are true. This is someones life your ruining here. He has a wife and several young children. I hope you are aware of that when speaking this loshon hara.

      • Read the text of the letter. The Chicago “Special Bais Din” is composed of very highly respected rabbonim/dayanim. They are clear about the gravity of the charges. They have no enforcement capabilities in Israel. They did not say they handed the case over to Israeli Beis Din. They merely said another one is also functioning on this issue.

  30. It seems to me that it is time for a fact update. I have had numerous conversations with many of the involved parties, ranging from Rabbis in Chicago, Baltimore, New York, and Yerushlayim during the past few days, and the general consensus is that Rabbi Meisels, who did “inappropriate” things involving students (in the realm of “making them blush”, etc.) should not be involved in frum girl seminaries, and to this end, the Bet Din in Yerushalayim (Rabbis Shafran, Malinowitz, and Gartner) has gotten agreement (in writing) from Rabbi E Meisels that he is turning control of the 4 seminaries over to the Israeli Bet Din effective immediately, and he will not have anything to do with the seminaries going forward (btw people are bidding for them already!). Kudos and thanks to the Chicago Rabbis for getting this accomplished, if you think about it, it is one of the few quick successes that victims in these types of situations have ever experienced. Thank you YL for bringing this story to the attention of the masses, and now that the goal was accomplished (namely, removing an inappropriate leader in a sensitive position — entrusted with core elements of the chinuch of future mothers of Klal Yisroel), we should all get on with our lives. Those of us who had daughters in any of these seminaries during the past few years may want to discuss with trusted Torah authorities what approach, if any, should be taken in discussing this with them — remember that they are (as is evidenced by many comments in this article) very enamored of him, and may find it traumatic to discover that he may not be the shining light he appeared to be.

    Anything else going on, including the Chicago Rabbis still telling everyone that they should not send daughters to the seminaries even though Rabbi Meisels is no longer involved, is beyond the scope of public information, and is not a matter of general consensus, since there are opinions across the globe that differ regarding this point (note that the ranking Chicago Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi AC Levin, who is on this special Beis Din, is not signed on the letter, even though he was involved in getting Rabbi Meisels out). If you are about to send your daughter to one of these seminaries, and you don’t know what to do, you may want to discuss it in great detail with your daughter’s High School Principal, who should be knowledgeable about the situation and can relate to your child’s and your particular circumstance (and possibly refer you to others who are better informed).

    • Informed sources Tell me that Rabbi A. C. Levin, Rosh Yeshiva at Telz-Cicago, backs the beis din and his colleague from Telz, Rabbi Feurst was acting in his place because Rabbi Levin was not able to make it to the beis din himself.

      • I was informed by people in the know that he backed the Beis Din all the way, but not sending this letter after Meisels was removed.

  31. “Roving eyes”? It was smack in the center of the page right under the text. It filled the screen; same width as tje text. Are u kidding me? Any “roving” and I would be off the page.
    Would it be OK if her arms past her elbow and legs past her knees were covered?

    • Howard Box, whatever that means, FF uses a free hosting site. YL has no control over those ads. In addition, YL receives no salary of any sort for the altruistic life which is now evidently full time plus more. I have seen him post at all hours of the day and night, needs no sleep? maybe, but clearly clearly totally dedicated to justice, with a heavy emphasis on the ortho world and CSA. he does not even have a “gelt box” for donations as does FM,. also working, for free mostly, I imagine. So, if you cannot tolerate those ads, and yes, perhaps some could be disturbing to someone with testosterone, either tighten your security protections, or make the decision that the internet is not an appropriate place for you to be, with your sensibilities. Hey, nothing wrong with that. We are all individuals with free will? You have chosen to read this site. OTOH, if you want to start a collection for YL, perhaps he will be able to afford a more strict “pay for use” site.
      I do appreciate your concern. Everything in life is a trade-off. If I wanted to speak in bad taste, and sarcastically i would say that you have 32 choices, stop reading FF, get rid of the testosterone, or fund his use of a better website. Sorry, unkind, I could not resist, an irresistable impulse is my defense.

    • Mr. Box, and anyone else, I take your word for what you saw, but never saw it because my Firefox browser has a little free add-on called “Adblocker.” (I don’t know whether it is available for other browsers, but it probably is.) I installed it because I dislike distraction, sexual or otherwise. I suppose that if everyone used it, on-line ads would lose their value and bloggers would lose some revenue, but there must be idiots out there who actually like dancing ads jumping out at them, or the programmers wouldn’t design them. And if for some reason you want to see the ads on a website, you can always turn Adblocker off from a menu on your browser.

  32. To all those out there: I am very closely related to this story and can say with absolute certainty that Rabbi Elimelech Meisels is NOT a danger to anyone, nor a child molester in any way. He had a large argument with the Chicago Bais Din, and the Israeli Bais Din did not take a stand on EITHER side. Rabbi Meisels has tried compromising with the Chicago Bais Din but they would not hear of it, and they have the backing of some prominent and wealthy community members. Over a month ago, Rabbi Meisels had already handed over control of all his seminaries to its respective Vice Principals. This wasn’t enough for the Bais Din and it’s supporters, and so they posted this nasty letter on an anonymous blog, in an effort to ruin his life. They will all rot in Hell for the spreading of malicious slander, and for ruining the lives of Rabbi Meisels and his family.

    • Yahdee, yahadee, yahdee. As usual there is an attempt to neutralize this rare and dramatic public pronouncement by maligning the beis din. There is no public confirmation that Meisels is out of the business. Till there is, he has to be reckoned a hazard. The beis din did not seek me out to publicize this ruling. I got wind of it from one of my many sources. It was inevitable that it would leak because it was sent to dozens of educators to alert them to the hazards posed by Meisels.

      • Actually there is. I went to Pninim this past year and they told us Rabbi Meisels will no longer be teaching and will be going to kollel instead. He has removed himself from being involved directly with the seminaries.

    • oh because you’re ‘closely related’ here you can flaunt your big fat false black hat dirty nursing home contraband and we will all obey and listen feh stand in line your next jack

    • Do you have an AKA of Belsky? He said/says still as far as I know, that he knows “with absolute certainty? that both Kolkos are/were innocent, in face of the fact that both confessed. Ya cant make this stuff up…… the upside down world of charedi abuse brings out the crazies, and of course, those who are paid off, professional posters. even some. paid to post to sound like youngins. you know, with all of the associated abbreviations used by that generation in TXT msgs. This campaign must be costing him a fortune–wondering if he is paying minimum wage (under the table of course) to the multitudinous commenters. Or perhaps it is his wife funding this campaign??? like Hillary defended Bill. how very very touching, no pun intended….

  33. One very rich, spoiled girl from Chicago with major Daddy issues had a small story with him. She got very upset at him about something and decided to ruin his life. She took him to the beis din in Chicago and got a few of her friends to testify that he did or said inappropriate things (like called them pretty etc) She didnt even have enough to take him to a regular court! He said that he was in the wrong and wont act as principal of the seminary anymore. The Chicago Beit Din decided it wasnt enough and wrote him a huge list of demands. He got into a major power struggle with them and that how this all became public knowledge. This has been going on for months folks. And that is the real story. If this is such a major deal why isnt it on yeshivaworld or matzav? Places Frum people actually go to? and why arent butei dinim around the world coming out that no one should go to his seminaries? Something isnt right here… This article could very well be over the issur of Loshon Hora. Please get the haskamah of the gedolei hadar and then no one will fight you on this but until then..youre treading very thin waters Mr. Lopin.

    • Are you, perchance, the very same Shira who commented last evening on FM? or is it your twin sister, to be sure, Shira is a very common name. Now, where is Shani? is she using an AKA? You know, your comments are there for posterity. Your children will be able to look them up. An AKA is not always sufficient to be really anonymous. But, of course you know that, as you know everything else.
      And it is laughable for you to be cautioning Yerachmiel about “reading very thin waters”. Sometimes you guys have barely veiled threats. You were super cautious, keep up the good work. Shira.

    • I have no idea what did or did not happen – but everything considered, your version seems to be coming from fantasyland. However, the palpably absurd mantra running through these threads – namely, the good rabbi could not have committed any impropriety because all the girls ( alternatively) respect, adore, revere, and/or were saved by him is troubling in the extreme. I am most certain that most girls were able to radiate aa vibe of not being approachable — but odds are there were some who were vulnerable and ……………………………….

      • pray, tell. What is fantasyland about a signed letter? If the document is not a forgery, this is a real story, a real allegation by three respected rabbis who investigated and gave Meisels a chance to present his version.

  34. Some say that it is loshon hora etc and no ‘toeles’. They are all wrong. This should prove that the torah which says a man should not be teaching girls should be kept. There is no reason why a woman cant do the same job and better for girls. This is called ‘lmaan yishmu v’yirau’. Beth din punishments are done in public. And so should this one be done.
    This should be a wake up call to all parents to start keeping the torah and not send their girls to men run seminaries to be ogled at. They should rather send to colleges or universities. Like I sent my daughter. Much more mitsva and less aveira. She received her degree married a ‘learner’ and ‘kept’ him for some years. Satmar dont believe in girls learning and there is definitely no mitsva whatsoever. To provide failed rabbis with girls to ogle at is not the derech hatorah.
    Please wake up.

    • Annex, your commentary is fascinatingly depressing. You finally (or once again, I don’t follow your stuff, so I don’t know how often you do this) have found some story to vindicate your feel-guilty decision to raise your daughters with less Torah in their lives than they should have had, and you’re shouting it to the rooftops. I hope it makes you feel good, because that’s all it is really good for.

      • My daughters learned torah from me and my wife their parents. That is how it should be. kol cvoda bas melech pnima. A girl doesnt have to go round the world to learn torah. shimi bas uri yofyach. A girl learns from her parents and husband. No one else.

  35. Hi ive been myself in pninim this year and i had the best year of my life ! Rabbi meisels has helped me tremendously and im sorry to tell u this but he is an amazing person and all of u who actually believed what was told about him was true should be ashamed of urself!
    This is a txt i just got from a this years pninim girl:” I just spoke with mrs. Seruya. (The eim habayit of pninim)She said that I should say what I’m about to say in her name and that everyone should b informed. She told me that some messed up girl with major issues made up a story about rabbi Meisels n that her father has a lot of money and brought this to Beis din and unfortunately when sexual abuse is brought up everyone is quick to believe and goes crazy and starts spreading rumors and thinks they have to inform the world of such evils. Yes it is a horrible thing but when there is NO proof and NO evidence, you can’t be so quick to accuse. No one else is coming out about this. Just this one letter. It’s not even publicized on legit websites. This is a very unfortunate situation everyone knows rabbi Meisels and knows he wouldn’t do such a thing. Everyone who knows him is completely denying it n saying that it must b a messed up girl who made up a story. She said that we should tell everyone and we can even say it in her name that it’s all not true. She said that unfortunately when u have an amazing neshama that is so l’shem shamayim and helps hundreds upon hundreds of ppl and changes so many lives, the satan can’t deal with it and gets involved because it’s too much for him, all this good is too much so he intervenes and tries to mess everything up. She said that we have to fight back, that we all have to stick together and stand up for R Meisels and pninim. Think about all the girls going next year who r being told not to go, that’s around 300 girls or more, what is going to b with them if they don’t know the truth. Think about all the parnasos of all the teachers rabbeim, secretaries, cooks, ect. Rabbi Meisels hires everyone l’shem shamayim and tries to help out all these struggling teachers and rabbeim. What’s going to be with them? She said that every principal of all the sems r behind rabbi Meisels all the way and r there to answer call from confused parents to tell them the truth. The satan must be stopped and we all have to stick together and daven for this whole thing to blow over. Mrs seruya said that she’d b happy to answer anyone who calls to ask her about the matter for more clarification. Regardless of this whole situation, pninim is an amazing school, YOU ALL KNOW THAT. The classes, the teachers, the rabbeim, everything mixed together. It changed my life and I am PROUD to say that iy”H G-d willing G-d willing G-d!!! I will be attending pninim shana bet. “

    • The above is a gem worth reading. It is Exhibit A for the standard form for mouting a defense of a pervert rabbi. Read it and know that this is not original. I have seen it in many other cases. It is a mixture of blame the victim, blame those who listen to the victim and denying that multiple victims reported the same pattern. Finally those who responsibly took on the difficult work of confronting the pervert are slandered as self-interested, jealous, or easily manipulated.

      If anyone tells you Meisels has done teshuvah (repentance), don’t believe them. The first steps include admitting guilt and apologizing sincerely to the victim and trying to undo the damage. Additional steps include removing oneself from the tempting situation. Clearly, from these and other messages by Meisels defenders, he has not even started doing teshuvah. He is a public hazard who must be exposed and removed from all roles which put others at risk. He is not to be trusted as a rabbi.

      • Mr. Lopin please get a Gadol Hadors haskamah. If he is a danger to the public then i think a Gadol will have no problem giving his haskamah

        • A talmid chacham and very competent posek with a lot of experience in the issue of sex abuse has repeatedly assured me that these sort of exposes are necessary and helpful for protecting the public.

        • Three talmidei chachamim and dayanim experienced in investigating sex abuse wrote that “It does not recommend that prospective students attend these seminaries at this time.” How were all thee students supposed to find out without publicizing the psak. Frankly, I think the beis din should have publicly issued the statement itself. But clearly they understood that it would be publicized and that is the only way it’s ruling could most effectively protect potential victims.

          I don’t know where you get this idea that only a “gadol hador” can issue a psak (Jewish law ruling). Furthermore, when there is a toeles, a purpose of protecting others from harm, their is no prohibition of lashon horah (spreading derogatory information). The posukk (Biblical verse) about rechilus (gossip) ends with lo saamod (do not stand by idly on the blood of another).

          Since when does the fulfillment of lo saamod require a case-by-case ruling by a gadol hador. That sort of thinking is what the gemorrah chastised when talking about a chosid shoteh.

          • 7 conditions of toeles. Sometimes you think you have to repeat “lashon hara” because you know that Mr. Joe is harming someone. But wait!!! You may only repeat the info if ALL 7 conditions are met. (See Guard your tongue by R’ Pliskin P.115-118)

            #1 You know absolutely positively that it is 100% (and no less) true.

            #2 You know for a fact that what is being done is wrong.

            #3 You must first rebuke the evildoer before repeating the info. If you know for a fact that he won’t listen and it may even make matters worse than you can avoid doing this as long as you repeat the info in front of 3 people. (if that will also cause more harm than good then you may forego this too.)

            #4 The information you are repeating must be absolutely true to the details without exaggeration whatsoever.

            #5 You may not intend to derive pleasure from repeating the info and you are forbidden to speak against the wrongdoer if you are motivated by personal dislike. (there is more to this so look in the book.)

            #6 Use another method other then repeating negative information whenever possible. Meaning if you can get the point across or mission accomplihed by other means than bad mouthing the culprit then you must do so.

            # 7 Punishment must be in accordance with Torah Law. If by you tellin over this information you will cause the wrongdoer a greater loss than the Torah requires of him than you can not repeat it.

            There are many more rules regarding these halachos and condtions and you are bet off learning them and chazering them over and over as well as asking a competent Rav when such a shaila arises.

      • Well u kmw what theres something called jealousy and ur clearly showing it !not just u but unfortunately its many other ppl in this world tht are just simply jealous of his success and trying to ruin his life!!!

        • Unfortunately at this point, it’s past trying. They succeeded quite well in ruining him and his family:(

        • Marvelous, you are now down to one of the most common defenses of sex offenders — questioning the motives of the critics and attributing it to jealousy. Believe me, these distinguished Chicago rabbonim are quite successful and secure. Rav Schwartz is recently retired as the Av Beis Din of the BDA, one of the largest and most respected batei dinim in the world. He is one of the most respected rabbis in the Chicago orthodox community and their very influential beit din and hashgachah, the CRC. He needs this tsorris like a loch in kop. Meisels is not in Schwartz’s league. Jealousy had nothing to do with it. But this sort of talk suggests the kind of inflated ego and manipulativeness that characterizes him.

    • this would be funny if it werent so tragic — the story of the soton not being able to allow the chaste rabbi to continue his holy work of selfless ministering to the needs of single females, neccesarily requires the rabbis to fall for the baseless story of the little rich spoiled girl. of course it is inconceivable that a smmoth talking rabbi with hundreds of adoring female talmidot could be subject to the yetzer horah because he apparently is beyond earthly drives.

    • Who is this talmid chacham and competent posek? Surely you’ll have no issue giving their name so we can verify, just like you insist we do with the names signed on the above letter.

      • Mr lopian with all do respect I feel that the way you are talking isn’t the right way to to be dealing with what you feel is right . If any rav saw the way you are speaking including the raba nim in Chicago and many other poskim I’m sure they would ban this website. Even if you feel you want to help everyone , there is a way of talking and you seem to be talking in a unhealthy manner and totally inappropriate . I understand you want to help people but pls don’t downgrade what people are saying and until he is proven guilty you should take a step back. Hashem is not proud of the way your saying Loshon hora . Thank you for warning others and now it is time to wait and see. Thank you for understanding.

  36. Regardless of right or wrong, which I’m not interested in getting into, why exactly are you so incredibly VICIOUS, scathing and disgusting? Just from a quick glance at your blog, it seems to only feed on lashon hara and dragging people through the mud…real ahavas yisrael you display here. You must be so incredibly proud of yourself, when in reality you should be ashamed of yourself and disgusted with your behavior. It’s people like you, not him, that make it clear why mashiach isn’t here. If there’s one thing that’s been agreed on, it’s that this letter was never meant to be made public, but was rather passed on to the relevant institutions, and yet your blog is the only place on the internet that it’s been posted…something stinks, and it has everything to do with this story being posted…I bet you were just so excited to post something like this. Disgusting. I am not even discussing the story that’s being reported here because I don’t feel the need to be a gossip monger, whether it’s true or not true, whether details are (correctly) not being provided, etc. But your scathing and sinas chinam is just too much to ignore. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    • Toxic waste dumps are disgusting and residents need to be alerted to take measures to protect themselves. Sewage processing plants deal with disgusting stuff, but you gotta process the stuff to avoid polluting the environment. Don’t blame the messenger; blame the disgusting reality.

      • Oh, I’m quite positive that you’re the top contributor to the waste plant. Don’t paint yourself all white and heroic, you’ve covered in it as much as much as the people you’re exposing. Don’t pretend that you’re doing it for any reason other then to keep yourself a household name. If you actually cared, you would have posted something, which again, was not meant for the public, so pretty disgusting that you posted in the first place, and turned off the comments. No, instead you comment on every single comment here, and actually MOCK people for their comments. No decent person would do that. You’re a worse lowlife then the people you’re ”exposing”. It sickens me that people trust you.

    • Most of the orthodox leadership is failing to protect its members from orthodox sexual abusers. Someone has got to do the job.

      במקום שאין אנשים, השתדל להיות איש
      Hillel in Pirkei avos 2:6

  37. Dear sir,
    My daughter is registered for one of rabbi meisels seminary this sept. This issue concerns me a great deal, but I’m very concerned as well by some of the comments on this blog like…rabbis meisels saved my life, saved me from my problems and comments like a lot of these girls are from very difficult backgrounds , drugs, abuse and mental issues. I was not aware of this when I signed my daughter up for seminary. Rabbi me isles is not there now so if he is guilty he is not a threat, what concerns me are the different problems that the girls bring with them. Can someone shed some light??

    • Hi you don’t have to worry about sending your daughter to one of his seminaries. Not all of his seminaries accept not healthy girls it was just a couple of them. If your daughter is going to keser chaya or binas or even any of them They aren’t accepting not good girls anymore. And every seminary is going to have a few not good girls no matter how good the seminary is. My sister is going to keser chaya and I know many others and it’s a very good place and so are his other ones . I personally went to pninim and my year had alot of not good girls and that was many years ago. All I know is that since last year he cut down on accepting alot of issued people.

        • Mr. Lopin, thank you and you are doing an amazing job responding to all the people posting comments defending meisels, people who have the audacity to blame victims and doubt the truth of the ruling of the brave and esteemed Chicago rabbis who have nothing to gain here and are doing a great public service. The girls that claim they had a good experience with meisels should count themselves lucky and daven for the victims not blame them.

    • If you go to any seminary, you’ll find that there will be a few individuals that went through serious challanges in life (calling them messed up just isnt nice) I went to seminary there last year and like every other I girl, I also had my challanges (I’m not messed up either) when most of the girls here are saying that they saved them, and I say this bec many of them are my friends, it’s because he was a principal who really cared about his students. You dont find that is most high schools unless you’re from a small school from out of town. If girls had an issue with tznius, he helped pay for new clothes. If girls had issues with their parents, either him or another teacher would deal with it in a way the parents and students were happy. Yes, we may have had some damaged girls bec this school took good girls by their standards. The girls in my school are GOOD FRUM GIRLS. Girls who were taught to work on themselves, girls who were taught that they’re worth more than what teachers or society thinks of them. Rabbi M always made sure every girl had a WOMAN teacher to be close to. He took and was willing to take all girls through the shidduch process which we all know isnt easy on girls. Bh I’m married to a wonderful man and yes, a lot of that credit goes to pninim and rabbi meisels because they put everything into me to become that person I am today. Majority of the girls in my year would say the same thing. My parents were also worried when they heard pninim doesnt have the best name for what kind of girls go there but when I came back, they said they couldnt have chosen a better place for me. I have no interest in going into whatever ppl say about rabbi meisels, (there’s not much he can do that would change our gratitude and respect for him, regardless if he did what this girl is saying bec it doesnt change our positive experience with this school) but if you’re questioning pninin, then all I have to say is ive never seen a girl walk out of there that didn’t turn out to be an amazing girl. Your daughter would be missing out if she didnt get a chance at that experience.

      • Thank you rikki !!! I appreciate everything you’ve said I wish more people were writing about how amazing he is and how much he’s helped people.I personally didn’t have alot of challenges but I had many friends who did who came out amazing all because of pninim. I went there awhile ago and am happy I went even though theither were girls who I didn’t expect. Everyone came out amazing.

  38. i know eli meisels for years and i am not saying if he did or didnt do anything, i personally think he would not do anything he has an amazing wife and family and he would be stupid to mess that up and he isnt stupid he is very open but thats why he succeeded so much with his seminarys because thats what some girls need but all i know is that i am originally from chciago and there are some messed up rich girls there who can get their daddys to do anything , i know Rabbi cohen and Rabbi feurst and they are talmedi chachamim and the best of rabbonim but if 5 girls come to testify then they would beilive them because thats what a rav is supposed to do, can anyone find out if there are girls not from chicago who complained against eli ? it would make a big difference its hard to believe that he picked only victims from chicago

    • Nothing necessarily implies all or even any of the victims are from Chicago. As far as I know, this is the only standing beis din devoted to addressing sex abuse. The only other one in Lakewood was created and then disbanded by Rabbi Matisyahu Solomon. Most of these seminary girls return to the Anglo world from Israel when finishing their year or two. Thus it is quite possible that a rabbi in another town referred the case to this beis din.

      BTW, Agudath Israel says all sex abuse cases should be referred to a rabbi but has never been willing to name a single rabbi they deem appropriate for this task.

  39. I’m having a issue believing this and I don’t think anyone can say anything to change that because first of all I went to pninim and there is no way that’s this is true . There is only good to say about Rabbi Meisels . Second of all why is this the only story that is being published if it were true wich it isn’t why is this the only story ?

    • It is the only story because the Haredi media censors almost all stories about sex abuse by orthodox Jews. But this beit din did issue this ruling and any of its members will confirm that.

      Try and understand that sex abuse is done in private and selectively. So he could have behaved properly in public, but….. Sex abusers do not paint the words on their foreheads under their tefilin shel rosh.

  40. well i heard that there are a few girls from chicago and had people ask tons of girls(friends) in ny and no one said that something was done to them

    • OK, I will try to respond. A respected Bais Din has found these 4 institutions off limits, and has not retracted their stance. They did so because of the hanhala, not because of the girls who attend the sem.
      So, why are you even worried about the girls in attendance? You have done all in your power to raise a good girl….are you willing to gamble with her life by trusting these people with your daughter for an entire year? Isn’t that the question you should be asking, rather than whether the girls attending are all in the category of budding tzadeikeses??

  41. dont defend this menuval chazer ..get rid of him already and stop with the benefit of a doubt bs

      • no you should be tearful..supporting him for his black hat bs and all black hat fakers from fakewood smelz etc Rabbi ????? did the chazer nursing homes pay for it?

        • So 612 which is the mitzvah that you don’t except, is it sinas chinam or is it loshon horo. i don’t think nivul peh is one of the 613 (but maybe it is kedoshim tihiyu).

      • no ‘chaim’ its shomer pisoyim Has–m moron …because you have a fourth grade education encouraged by your ‘rosh yeshiva’ you can not use english properly ‘except?’ you mean accept vulgarian! i guess you dont earn an honest living either as is evident from your illiteracy…what mitzvah do you ignore by choosing to schnor and not work?

    • If you hadn’t noticed, everyone who is defending him knew him personally and are not just giving him the benefit of the doubt, they are coming to the logical conclusion, based on what they know of him, that it is likely that this story is a fabrication. It is quite obvious that you don’t know him, so don’t speak about what you don’t know.

  42. How could they cut down on acceptance of girls with issues. It would be hard to know in advance.

    • I just have one thing to say here LOPIN JUST SHUT UP!!! Its all i wanted to say from beg of reading ur blog! Makes no diff now wether he did somthing or not. U said it already and now just shut up! The way youre talking is completely animal like. Just read all what u wrote. Not one nice thing there. Its retarded how someone could be as so low to not care about another person not even one bit. I hope u get better soon!

  43. I was a student in one of his schools and I am SERIOUSLY not suprised. He did not have boundaries, he said inappropriate things to girls, and he liked pretty girls.

    • So becos he said” inappropriate” things and liked pretty girls thats why that OBVIOSULY means he raped girls??!do u actually know what ur talking about???

  44. The comments defending this menuval would be funny if they weren’t so sad.

    I walked down ABC Avenue everyday and was never run over by a truck. Therefore, the body on the ground with truck tire marks on it’s back is fake or was dumped here already dead.

    My grandmother smoked all her life and lived to be 90. Therefore, scientist are wrong about the dangers of smoking.

    Thousands of bochrim get drunk on purim and don’t end up in the ER. Therefore, Hatzoloh and the rabbonim are making up stories about the dangers of alcohol poisoning sending boys to the hospital.

    My sister in NJ had a Palestinian neighbor who always shoveled my sister’s walkway when snow fell on Shabbos. Therefore, the Israeli government is just jealous of the success of the Saudi Arabians and are making up stories about hundreds of rockets being fired from Gaza.

    Schindler saved 1,000 Jews. The Holocaust never happened.

    Abarbenel survived. No inquisition.

    My cousin went to Torah Temima and wasn’t molested. Kolko was innocent.

    My aunt was Weberman neighbor in the bungalow colony and he was always polite. He must have been framed.

    My ancestors lived in yerusholayim in the times of Dovid HaMelech and there is no record of any issues with my great great great great etc grandmother. Nosson Hanavi should have consulted the Moetzes of the Agudah before believing anything about Batsheva. I heard she had her own issues. (Her husband was after all a general in a tzioni army.)

    Someone needs to censor the gemara that allegedly claims lo ro’issi aino raiyah.

    • Brilliant!!!! but the “plants” and brain-deads on here, are in total denial. Even appending one of YL’s “parody” labels won’t help with these folks. I pray for their sakes that they are “plants” not of the vegetative variety, and not, l’umat zot, cretins.

  45. This was a psak that was intended to be made public. The defenders of this disgusting Mr. Meisels are more proof that the students in his seminaries turn into brain-dead robots. Why would anyone send there? Why would his brain-dead employees defend him?

    The Bais Din in Chicago is comprised of world-class dayanim who have experience. They would not have simply accepted the testimony of one or two girls with an axe to grind. There was substantial substantive evidence, and they had no choice but to act. If you don’t believe it, then call the rabbonim, as I have done.

    If you believe that Mr. Meisels is still a decent human even if these allegations are true, then you’re a moron beyond hope. He has no business being near girls at all. Worse, he created employees and students who are all mind-numbed morons who think he walks on water, when the Chicago Bais Din clearly holds that he is reprehensible. Who are you going to believe?

    • Thank you. There seems to be precious little complaining about the slandering here of these three dayanim, accusing them of everything from blind credulousness to corruption. Apart from that, some are saying that because Rabbi Meisels has left the seminaries, this letter should not be publicized. Whether this is a valid toeles is beyond my competence, but in light of the amount of covering-up there has been in the past, I see a positive value in pointing out an instance in which a bet din did what it is supposed to do, i.e., investigate and act.

  46. Yes, there are people who act inappropriately. However, I believe I am witnessing what has become a witch hunt. In my children’s yesivah, a long standing rebbe, who had overstayed his time in teaching was run out and completely ruined by a baseless accusation. After more than 20 years in chinuch, an accusation by one child with an influential father! The rebbe needed to move on, but this was no way to do away with him!

    On the matter of Mike Tress, I find it outlandish that accusations are being thrown out about a dead man who cannot defend himself. Nor, can a lawsuit for libel be brought about a dead man which seems to fuse this witch hunt. Mike Tress was a man who sacrificed himself for his fellow brothers. It is incomprehensible that he would have behaved in the manner that is being insinuated. If only we could see the likes of hims again!!

    As for Elimelech Meisels, I personally attest to the awesome family from which he emanates. The testimonies on this site do not surprise me. This family is malchus and one in a hundred million. I too benefited from the abundant caring and kindness of his parents and watched Eli grow up. If Elimelech has stepped down from his seminaries it is only to the detriment of our girls who need good people to educate them for there is a lack of good people out there. Elimelech seems to possess great talent and I have no doubt will find another avenue to success. It is we who have lost out.

    Until I hear full details: How many accusations were made and by who? What exactly did he do? etc. I will continue to believe that this has turned into a witch hunt.

    • Big deal. Monsters can be talented and charismatic. They can also come from “great” families. Why should the Chicago Bais Din release the details of the accusers? So people like you can malign them and find fault with their motives? That’s exactly why this Bais Din operates. They would not have taken such an extreme action unless it was absolutely necessary. Just about everything they do is done in private, in accord with the delicacy that is often necessary. They did not go public unless circumstances demanded it. And in this rare case, it was necessary. They knew that people like you would give him the benefit of the doubt, but they were also assuming that most sane people would back away from Mr. Meisels seminaries.

      • I don’t need the names of the accusers. But, I would like to know more. We all deserve to know more!

        Mark my words, good people as well as the dead are being destroyed in what has become a witch hunt!

    • Believe what you want. Worship whoever you want. Just don’t complain when it is your daughter who is used and abused by a member of the Agudah royal family. She probably has issues and is a disturbed child anyway. Offspring of kool-aid drinking fools are likely to have all sorts of problems.

      Have you called the rabbonim on the bais din to castigate them for attacking the Royal Family?

      • I repeat:

        Until I hear full details: How many accusations were made and by who? What exactly did he do? etc. I will continue to believe that I am witnessing a witch hunt.

        Is this so much to ask?

        If we keep this up, there will be nobody good left in chinuch or to involve themselves with the klal in any way.

        • What makes you think that a Bais Din that necessarily operates quietly is going to release the names of the victims of abuse? Either believe Rabbis Schwarz, Fuerst and Cohen, or don’t. But they are world-class Rabbonim, and Mr. Meisels isn’t.

          • Ha ha we got that MR. MEISELS joke already. I just don’t get how you take back someone’s Smicha, but maybe I’m just ignorant in this world of “world class Rabbis”

            • The rabbonim who signed his smichah can declare that they no longer approve him to function as a rabbi. It has been done in other cases. But even without that being done, one is not obliged to respect someone as a rabbi when he has abused his position eggregiously.

        • Do you eat products with known hashgachos or do you cook everything yourself from scratch?How can you decide until the rav hamachsir explaine posts a video of himself inspecting the plant in which the food was produced?

  47. Answering pninim girl, my daughter is enrolled in pninim as well. I am worried about the other girls, especially ones that say things like ” he saved my life” what does this mean in a seminary context???

    • You shouldn’t be worried. In every seminary there are a few girls dealing with certain issues. And the reason why Pninim has the name of sometimes having more than a few of these girls is precisely because it is such an amazing seminary and helps each girl get over what ever she may have been struggling with, and then grow as a person. In no way does the individual struggles of one girl effect others- that is another aspect which the staff at Pninim are amazing about- they are perceptive and can figure out when a girl is damaging others. And the truth is, Pninim is very slow to throw out a girl. But the one thing they will throw someone out for is for negatively affecting other girls in the sem.

      Obviously all the self growth that Pninim is known for is within the boundaries of what the girl herself wants, and I can testify to the fact that there’s is absolutely NO brainwashing that takes place there.

      If u have any other questions, or anything specific, I will be glad to answer.

      • because your black hat homes are so broken you need to seek these kind of ‘seminaries’..if the parents lead by example this would not be in the realm of an issue to be addressed…go work for ‘tati’ at the nursing home will ya!

    • Likely means that a girl has been conditioned to accept anything that a predatory abuser will say as being Torah Min Shomayim. Like you, I view this as a red flag. Hopefully, as a parent, you can still be in charge rather than the seminary.

      • THAT IS COMPLETELY AND OUTRAGEOUSLY UNTRUE. and plz don’t respond now “ur a red flag for sex offenders bec ur defending him and bla bla bla”. He also is NOT a sex offender. He is a good man who may have been a bit too friendly. But never did it go near rape or any if the other terrible things ppl are saying about him. And yes I know that for a fact.

        • Then kindly explain the Bais Din’s words (not mine) regarding “unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature”. If you know anything about these three Rabbonim, you would know that they would only use such language if it really happened. Does Meisels have any rabbonim of ANY stature defending him? In any case, you can’t know what he didn’t do, because you’d have to know where he was at every minute of every day for several years. No way that you can know, unless you, too have been brainwashed.

          • This guy must be awesome if he had the power to brainwash, what amounts to at least 800 students and staff over the last ten years! Cool

          • I’m wondering if u read the letter, or just scammed it and picked out the parts that appealed to u. If u go back and read it, you’ll see that it clearly states “the Beis din has convened to ADRESS the ALLEGATIONS of improper conduct…” Nowhere does it say that they found him guilty of it.

          • Additionally, the exact definition of the word “allegation” is: a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.

        • Yes Pninim Girl. I find it interesting how some people write that they know for a FACT that Rabbi Meisels is NOT a sex offender, yet other people keep writing that they ASSUME he IS a sex offender based on the letter they see. Make of that what you will, readers.

        • WILL YOU ALL SHUT UP!!
          Stop slashing ur brother like this in public! Do u not see what you’re doing here? I will not waste my breath on u pathetic people but i will make one thing crystal clear. Rabbi, and I repeat loud and clear, RABBI Miesles is an amazing man who has done incredible good to this world. If you haven’t fone through Pninim or his other schools then you have no right to voice ur opinion on he matter. Your so into ur children’s safety? I suggest u make sure they never get ahold of this blog and read how much lashon hara and lies are being spread by their parents. Rabbi Meisels is going straight to Gan eden after this-besides his incredible merits this busha has earned him a place up there far better than any of u lying fools will ever see. We all have skelotons in our closets and I’d like to see how you, Mr.Lopin, would react to all your sins publicized near a picture of you face on the internet for the world to see and talk about. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE POSTING THIS!! People doesn’t it tell you something about this man. I mean look at his other stories if you Dont believe me. I will say this one so you gossipers better be taking note. Pninim is a family and you picked the wrong family to mess with. You wanted war well now you got one. When this story all clears up and the truth is revealed, you will go hide in your corner out of shame. And don’t you ask for forgiveness…when you try to take down a family you better have a better plan that some lousy apology over text. The Satan is thriving over this,feeding off this loshon hara and back stabbing. And with this fuel that hes gaining hes supplying bombs to the Arabs,cancer to ur families,monetary problems to ur friends. U wanna be a victim then go right ahead. If u have any bit of brains in ur head I suggest u rethink what u r doing here. Shut down this blog and let the rabanim,the same ones who would cry at the site of what uve used their name for, deal with the issue. Mr. Lopin you are a coward and in the near future u will realize what uve done here. To the rest of u planning on sending ur daughters to Pninim. Look how we talk abt the place-a family, a home. Call anyone of is and we will tell you exactly what the place is all about. Dont make your decisions based on some assure blog. Trust us when we say we are a family and we have each others back. This blog has messed with eh wrong family and I guarantee you, you want your daughters to be part of this family. The one place on earth where you reach your fulest potential.I HIGHLY suggest you rethink who you’re all messing with and how strongly we are willing to fight for our rabbi,mentor and school. I remain and always will remain a proud penimer. JP

        • The letter says that “based on the testimony and the documents received” they believe that the girls are at risk of harm. They are not basing their psak on allegations alone. Anyone can see that. By the way, in secular court, testimony is nearly always the vast majority of evidence presented. So please don’t believe that the psak is based on mere allegations.

    • Yehudite, if you are worried about the other girls. and the comments here on FF have not been sufficiently disturbing, I suggest you read some really really hair-raising comments by Meisels former seminary girls., as found on the comment site of FM. failed messiah. I would hazard a guess that several of them are commenting here, as well, under different aliases, but their remarks over there on FM, are beyond disturbing. Perhaps same girls felt less inhibited on that site. I suggest you read some from very very late last night.

      • that site is geared more towards hurt and angry people who enjoy shaming yiddishkeit, and less about finding out facts. Regardless of what you may think about this website, I wouldn’t look toward that one for facts.

        • CW, I am clearly referring to comments made by supposed ex Meisels students, defending him. based on. well, hey, awful to say if it wasn’t so effin heartbreakingly sad, really poor logic and unformed ethics.. The fact that one admitted lusting after him, and USED THAT FACT TO PROVE that if he would have been abusing anyone, he would have abused her. quod erat demonstrandum est. Q.E.D. he is innocent of all claims.
          CW, FF is a superb site. YL is my hero. (sorry YL, don’t blush). FM has some very angry commenters, including the reporter himself. but that does not detract from the quality of his reporting, IMHO. On this particular threadover there re Meisels, there has been none of the anti-charedi toxic stuff you are alluding to. take a look. Hands down, FF is one of the very finest blogs i’ve ever read.
          FM is still valuable for some stories that do not appear elsewhere, particularly when one leaves the CSA topic. The posters are often mean spirited, etc etc.

      • Judith (not Yehudite) @11:55AM, After reading this lengthy comment of yours, I feel very strongly that you need to get on something strong and quick acting, not an SSRI, perhaps Thorazine???? Your comment is very very scary, re what it reveals about you. BIG RED LIGHT. get some help??? All the best, sooner rather than later.

    • Any girl whose life “needs to be saved” should not be sent to seminary! She should be kept at home with loving parents and getting appropriate medical or psychological treatment. These comments about meisels saving girls lives are very disturbing. Sounds very grandiose and narcissistic – common attributes of controlling and manipulative abusers.

        • Tova T- you are completely CORRECT.

          I myself have been a big believer in this. If your child is the troubled type, then they don’t just need a year in seminary, they might need professional help as well for their sake.

          HOWEVER, I and hundreds of girls have witnessed girls who’s lives were literally changed (either by Meisles himself or by the staff). They teach girls and help them appreciate and grow in things like tznius, Ahavas Hashem, emunas Hashem- so so many things. You can ask anyone. This, many will agree with me EASILY.

          Again, I agree with your approach. BUT. Therapy does not help a Bas Yisroel help specifically on those things.

          I only speak fact when I say that, indeed, many girls were helped tremendously in pninim and other schools. Again, only fact. You cannot argue with me.

          (And obv lives were ruined by this monster, who deserves to rot in gehenom.)

    • Before I sent a daughter I would directly call the beis son Chicago rabbis that have first hand knowledge. I am also very disturbed by the many comments that meisels “saved my life.” Pninim is not supposed to be a seminary for troubled off the derech kids. Another concern is a commenter mentioned that women principals and teachers must have been involved and covered for him. That makes sense and is just plain wrong. It’s very disturbing the amount of fans and supporters meisels seems to have, despite the very strong ruling of the esteemed bais din which guessing must know a lot more than they are making public, probably to save this man from further humiliation. I feel so sorry for the victims and I would not be surprised if more come forward. Usually, what we find out about is just the tip of the iceberg, because frum victims are so afraid of the frum “royalty” and shidduch issues.

    • Religious people are just as evil when it comes to molestation i myself at the age of 10 was molested over 50 years ago by non other then our most respected elder the moel shohet who was over 60 years old this happened in the mikva ,everything you wrote is right on kol hakavod.

  48. One of the funniest comments I hear and see over and over is that someone rich decided to ruin a rabbi’s life by accusing him of abuse. HA! When 99% of the molesters are DEFENDED and the victims are DESTROYED (go ask sorcher, rosenberg, Motti Weiss) why would someone think this would ruin a life?! The only life it ruins is their own.

    If I was a rich spoiled kid wanting to ruin a rabbis life the LAST thing I would do is accuse him of abuse knowing ignorant human beings would rather let me rot than displace him! There are endless names of victims who have been destroyed and only a handful who have actually paid for their crimes. AND MANY WHO ARE ACCUSED CAME HOME TO THE SAME LIFE THEY ENJOYED BEFORE THEY WERE ARRESTED. Money, honor (and a stupid wife) waiting for them.

  49. Judith, who, exactly, are you threatening? Now it becomes more clear that the Peninim girls like you are part of something that appears to be a cult. Words like “messed with the wrong family” and “war” are highly toxic. The Bais Din, made up of the greatest Rabbonim in Chicago (everyone holds of them) has rendered their psak, pure and simple. This isn’t a war, unless you think it is. So what are you going to do? I can tell you what the Chicago Rabbonim have done, which is to recommend that people not send their daughters next year. What, exactly are you going to do?

    • Actually, if u even bothered to read the letter, you’ll see that they haven’t rendered an psak at all. They’ve just ‘convened to adress the allegations…’
      And I find it worthwhile to mention the definition of allegations again- a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.

      • So, what do you call it when a Bais Din gets together to recommend that nobody sends their daughters to Meisels’s seminaries? Good advice? You think that they just got together for fun and games? You must either be Meisels or be related somehow to be in denial.

        Once more, they CONVENED because of the allegations, but then rendered a decision, that people shouldn’t send their daughters there because of testimony and documents received. Anyone can see that. Except for you, Meisels.

        • I wasn’t given the memo that “recommend” now has the same definition as ‘rendered a decision.
          And if ur using the letter as proof, then notice that’s he bottom paragraph states quite clearly that the Israeli Beis din has assumed responsibility for this matter. So why don’t we all wait and see what that Beis din has to say after they properly check into all the facts before we jump to our own wrongful conclusions??

    • There is nothing I can do besides stand strong by my school and show as well a so can what an amazing place it is. We are all responsible for our choices. You don’t want to send your children to Pninim.then Dont. Its their loss not ours. We are all brothers and I cry as I say that we must stand strong to fight what the Satan is trying to do. But u do what you want and hashem will take care of the rest

      • Are you saying that Rabbis Schwartz, Fuerst and Cohen were acting in league with Satan? Or was it really Meisels?

        • I’ll keep on saying this again and again. The Beis din did not actually find him guilty of anything! It is all the people spewing loshon hora and motsei Shem ra on this blog who are doing just that.

        • Exactly. First the defenders start with the lashon hara defense, then they devolve into minutia about definitions and phrases in the letter itself. At least we can hope that the majority of the defenders are Meisels himself, as well as his loyal staff who don’t want to lose their jobs (which is awful in any case). Hopefully, there are less Kool-Aid drinkers and more Meisels sock-puppets

          • I feel the need to repeat myself, as I see some triangles and others haven’t read through my last post.

            You keep claiming that you have the ‘right’ to speak Loshon Horah, as it is ‘for a Toeles’. So let’s just review the Halachos and see that your slander doesn’t qualify at all and thus, is just plain old Loshon Horah (and baseless as well). Last I checked, Loshon Horah, as well as embarrassing a man in public, is a far greater sin than “allegations of improper conduct”. So please review the following Halachos before continuing your discourse. Thank you.

            7 conditions of toeles. Sometimes you think you have to repeat “lashon hara” because you know that Mr. Joe is harming your freind. But wait!!! You may only repeat the info if ALL 7 conditions are met. (See Guard your tongue by R’ Pliskin P.115-118)

            #1 You know absolutely positively that it is 100% (and no less) true.
            (that means you didn’t just hear abt it from your cousins uncle’s washing machine’s sock’s neighbor)

            #2 You know for a fact that what is being done is wrong. (you must find out and weigh the matter carefully for it may be permissible)

            #3 You must first rebuke the evildoer before repeating the info. If you know for a fact that he won’t listen and it may even make matters worse than you can avoid doing this as long as you repeat the info in front of 3 people. (if that will also cause more harm than good then you may forego this too.)

            #4 The information you are repeating must be absolutely true to the details without exaggeration whatsoever.

            #5 You may not intend to derive pleasure from repeating the info and you are forbidden to speak against the wrongdoer if you are motivated by personal dislike. (there is more to this so look in the book.)

            #6 Use another method other then repeating negative information whenever possible. Meaning if you can get the point across or mission accomplihed by other means than bad mouthing the culprit then you must do so.

            # 7 Punishment must be in accordance with Torah Law. If by you tellin over this information you will cause the wrongdoer a greater loss than the Torah requires of him than you can not repeat it.

            There are many more rules regarding these halachos and condtions and you are bet off learning them and chazering them over and over as well as asking a competent Rav when such a shaila arises.

            • You have produced an exagerated caricature of the halachah, one which no talmid chacham would phrase this way in regard to this case. The fact is that sexual abuse can and has led to suicides. This makes it an issue of pikuach nefesh. Nothing in halachah requires 100.00 percent certainty. We will not be able to find me a psak written which speaks of 100 %. Battei din, bizman hazeh are not usually using sanhedrin standards but doing inquiry by other standards, especially on this sort of issue. Three talmidei chacham, respected rabbanim who intorregated the facts saw fit to advise all others to steer clear of these schools as long as Meisels had a role. Until that is confirmed, the kid in an out of town community should not be at risk because they do not know what sharks are swimming in the tank. Stop lecturing me recklessly and inaccurately about halachah and combining it with venom and insults. The real scandal is that there are many other menuvalim preying on young ones whose misdeeds are known but not exposed.

              for that we have to blame rabbonim who have more brains than spine. This Beis Din has both. You have been conditioned to believe no nice rabbi can be evil in private. When you daven about Hashem knowing the secrets, does it occur to you that this means we mortals often don’t. When the torah says a dayan should cower before no one do you realize it means so they have the courage to issue this sort of ruling.

              Our problem is not Meisels’ innocence but the others who get away with it. For that, to paraphrase Shakespeare in Julius Ceasar, ‘The fault, dear Halacha reminder, is not in our stars, But in those rabbis, that have become underlings for the reputations of others.’

              BTW, Halacha reminder, can you get a group of three respected poskim or a gadol who you can quote to make your points as you stated them, willing to use their name, in this case. I think not. Truth is that the dirty secret is out as it should have been years ago when other rabbis first head these stories.

              To quote Rav Ron Yitzchak Eisenman of Passaic, iirc, ‘the biggest mayvinim on loshon horah are the molesters.

  50. If any of you Meisels fans who are having trouble with this news would like to work it through, I have the name of a great therapist you can go to. Unfortunately he won’t be available for another 100 years

  51. I just want to say this: what gives you the right, Mr. Lopin, to act as the foremost expert on all facts relating to this situation if you don’t even know Rabbi Meisels, and have, apparently, nothing to do with this mess? Everything that you are stating as absolute truth has not been proven in any way. I do not claim to know for certain whether or not the allegations have any base in truth, and I knew Rabbie Meisels personally. I suggest you show a little humility and do the same, especially since you do NOT know him at all. Who do you think you’re helping with this blog? The only results I’ve seen from your posts are arguments and cruel comments.

    • Certainly, Mr. Lopin can speak for himself, but the to’eles of spreading this information is clear: People have been advised, at a minimum, to not send their girls to this monster’s seminaries. That enough makes it worthy to be m’farseim.

      • Oh triangle, again?! Slander is not considered Toeles unless it meets with 7 specific conditions (which your slander does not). Please see my previous posts for the Halachos stated very clearly and concisely. In addition, anyone who has a daughter registered in one of the four seminaries can read the letter on their own, and do their own research, and come to their own conclusions. But thanks for your (sinful) assistance.

        • Wow. Better tell that to Rabbi Fuerst, one of the closest talmidim of R’ Moshe Feinstein. You apparently know something about the halachos of lashon hara that he doesn’t. I’m totally shaking in my boots.

          But defending someone who deserves no such defense (is there any letter from ANY rov defending him?) is far worse. Nothing like those who defend the indefensible.

          • Oh don’t worry triangle, I didn’t actually MAKE UP the Halachos, I only cited them on a ridiculous blog to try to stop the abundance of Loshon Horah. But please do go ahead and tell Rabbi Feurst and Lopin and all others that they are exempt from these Halachos because Rabbi Feurst is a Talmud of Rabbi Feinstein.

        • What do you say now, genius? Ever heard of a RODEF? An animal which needs to be stopped. Mr. Meisels has now been shown to be the predatory animal that he is, and imagine if people listened to morons like you who know nothing about halacha. This is clearly a case of mitzvah l’farsem. It might even be mutar to hate Mr. Meisels.

          The three Rabbonim of the Chicago Bais Din forgot more Torah in one day than you’ll learn in a lifetime. Remember that.

  52. MR. Lopin, please expound on the Mike Tress accusation you lobbed on Friday where you mention this may be an issue in the blood-lines and namesake. To throw out an accusation against one of the most respected persons of the War and post War era in America requires some evidence and facts.

    Additionally, please confirm your involvement in this matter from the first accusation until this letter was leaked to you. Surely you must have all the facts of this case in order to take down a good man and his family. The answer of course is you don’t have any facts other than what your ‘sources’ feed you. The wording in the letter can encompass a very broad spectrum when stating ‘of a sexual nature’. To some a hug or a rub can be inclusive. Whilst improper for a man of his stature, it certainly doesn’t lap him into the pool of real molesters and rapists to which you have insinuated.

    The Telshe – Tress connection you mention confirms your utter ignorance to the Yeshiva world. A couple Tress boys went to Telshe Cleveland many decades ago and have zero allegiance or connection to them in any way. Additionally there is no intense wealth in the family – per your updated post – either. This confirms to me as to your status of believability regarding this or any other case as nil.

    While you have your ‘sources’ I have ‘direct’ knowledge of his relinquishing his ownership rights of all the seminaries he’s associated with. You can now pat yourself on the back and bow out with the knowledge that you had absolutely nothing to do with that. The ‘facts’ are he signed over ownership more than a week ago.

    You’re no righteous save the world type. You’re a hate mongering, no good, smarter than everyone dummy who jumps at any opportunity to ruin another human and their families. There will be Hell to pay.

    • The letter, which was made public, was written to be distributed publicly. Your use of the term “leaked” implies otherwise. Do you doubt this?

    • The allegations against Tree are in print in a book by Phillip Fishman who called him Glatt in deference to his surviving relatives. http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2012/08/he-calls-him-glatt.html. I have also spoken to people in Camp Agudah who reported his pedophile driven offenses against camp boys. It is worth talking about because Agudah was born in sin when it came to child sexual abuse, covering up repeatedly for their own President. He may have done other good things. But his evil lives on in the memories of those he hurt and in the Agudah culture of covering up sex abuse.

      I don’t owe you an account of my exact involvement in this case from A to Z. I report what is issued by another beis din. You either accept that beis din as competent and honest or not. the consensus of most who know them is that they are trustworthy and competent.

      Get real about it being mickey mouse. They spoke of “UNWANTED, PHYSICAL CONTACT OF A SEXUAL NATURE.” The beit din wanted to say as little as possible as long as they could protect other girls. But I have heard from sources connected to the beis din that it was much worse than those words imply. However, even by the narrowest reading of those words, this is conduct unbecoming an orthodox rabbi serving girls from Bais Yaacov backgrounds and similar schools in the Yeshivish orbit. This is not a question of criminal charges. It is a question of whether he is suitable for teaching girls in a seminary.

      Go ahead and try and insult me as ignorant. A family that owns four seminaries is wealthy.

      Elimelech Meisels and his father both went to Telz. Go ahead and claim that does not mean anything. Yeah, sure.

      Go ahead and impugn my motives. Fact is I helped spread a warning about a hazardous guy. You don’t like it because you are invested in him for some reason which you have not disclosed. I stand by what I have written.

      • It seems virtually certain by the way that Elimelech Meisels was a student of Yudi Kolko being that he attended Torah Temimah for something like 8 to 10 years before shipping off to Telz. Some boys who were affected by Kolko developed some kind of deviant streak and not necessarily in the same pattern that Kolko behaved. One student of Kolko named Oratz who today is a registered sex offender was targeting both boys & girls according to reports.

    • The Bes Din corrupts witnesses, destroys evidence, obstructs justice, smears victims, protects evil-doers, hides crimes and blackens the reputation of all Jews in the eyes of Gentiles. These not just wild claims. That’s its explicit goal – keep things private and “in the family”. Make sure the Justice system never hears of these crimes. Protect the names of the baby-rapers. Pressure the victims and their families to keep quiet.

      Look up the term “chillul hashem”.

  53. I have only one comment. I must give credit to Loppin for allowing so many comments against him.
    Another blog where I disagree a lot is the daas Torah blog, where he censors many comments which he disagrees with. At least on this blog you can speak freely. And this blog is much cleaner then eidonsohns blog, where he doesn’t put a picture of a lady every time he has a chance.

    • Truth is afraid of nothing. I feel that letting the Meisels groupies vent gives the rest of us an opportunity to see how they think and talk. Their style is venomous. No edelkeit. It is clear they are entralled by the manipulative charisma of Meisels. There is also a lot of Mean Girls in them. They have perfected an orthodox version of “slut shaming.” In the secular world this refers to deflecting charges of rape by claiming the victim was promiscuous. In the Meisels groupie version, it involves speaking of weaker girls with emotional problems who are spoiled. You can be sure that the beis din evaluated the credibility of the witnesses. But a victim does not have to be perfect to be credible. I am sure these girls deeply regret giving in to Rabbi Meisels in those cases where the abuse was not simply by force. But they deserve a lot of credit for being brave enough to endure the embarassment of going before a beis din of 3 men and talking about these events. We owe his victims who testified a lot for finally blowing the whistle. they are the real heroines of this story along with the rabbis who listened and then acted.

      I hope someday, that such courage will lead to respect for such victims instead of this vile slandering. As for these guttersnipes trashing me — big deal. Yeah it hurts a bit. But if you want to fight abuse you need to expect this occasionally. Perverts who are powerful and their supporters rarely walk off the stage gracefully. I am willing to bet that Meisels could have avoided this public debacle if he was truly willing to completely removed himself from chinuch and other contact with young women.

      • Correct. Going public has been a VERY rare thing for the special Bais Din. In fact, it’s nearly never. Meisels was especially uncooperative and brought it all on himself.

  54. http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2006/08/jewish-felons-problem-of-criminality.html?showComment=1401758889830#c4389184334194766585

    Old Torah Vodaas said…
    Any truth to this or just a phony rumor being spread in the Shavuos Yated?

    Reporting on the petira of Mike Tress’s almonoh, the Yated quotes both Agudah propagandist Yonosson Rosenbloom and Tress nephew R’ Dovid Trenk from the hespid, quoting R’ Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz ztl no less, az Moshiach vet kummen bizchus dem ‘ohn a bard’, Mike Tress.
    9:28 PM, June 02, 2014

    UOJ (who is the grandson of Rav Mendlowitz ztl) said…
    Moshiach vet kummen bizchus dem ‘ohn a bard’, Mike Tress…

    *****

    Utter nonsense!
    9:32 PM, June 02, 2014

    • The allegations against Tress are in print in a book by Phillip Fishman who called him Glatt in deference to his surviving relatives. http://theunorthodoxjew.blogspot.com/2012/08/he-calls-him-glatt.html

      I have also spoken to people in Camp Agudah who reported his pedophile driven offenses against camp boys.

      It is worth talking about because Agudah was born in sin when it came to child sexual abuse, covering up repeatedly for their own President. He may have done other good things. But his evil lives on in the memories of those he hurt and in the Agudah culture of covering up sex abuse.

      • Anyone I have heard from, including UOJ commenting on his site, and others with knowledge of Agudah’s inner workings, believe that Tress’s indiscretions did not reach the ears of R’ Moshe and R’ Yaakov. It is alleged that Tress put systems in place for the Agudah to resist acknowledging any kind of child molestation and that this “legacy” was continued by Far Rockaway / 5 Towns border resident Shmuel Bloom. The first that the Agudah ever opened up kepischa shel machat on child molestation was when Bloom retired, some say under pressure, and the reins were handed over to Chaim Dovid Zweibel, not that Zweibel is an angel in these matters either.

  55. perhaps measles wife should not be so careful with her ‘harchokos’ violating a d rabbanan to avoid a d’oraisa /koreis already commited

  56. This is off topic, but after reading all the comments of the Seminary girls, above, I’m beginning to rethink the wisdom of this year in Israel, away from home, for both the boys and girls. Most come home with hashkafos and ideas that are different and far more radical and extreme than their own families’ hashkafos. Could it be that indeed, the year in Israel is an ideal setting for the (even if unintentional) brainwashing of young, impressionable minds? The teachers all hail from the most extreme circles. Whereas most Yeshivish people in the USA work for a living, most Yeshivish people in Israel do not work for a living, and rather exclusively learn, at the directives of the Gedolim. Never is it explained to any of the boys and girls in their year in Israel that the situations in Israel and in the USA are completely different. Never is it explained that in Israel it is related to the army, and that the State of Israel knowingly supports the learning families, while in the USA, the young people who decide to commit themselves to this learning-only way of life have to rely on their parents for support, while echoing their teachers’ claims of “Hashem Ya’azor” and “Parnasah is in Hashem’s hands.” How many kids go to Israel knowing that their parents do not have the means to support them in learning, and come home starry-eyed “knowing” that learning, or if they are girls then supporting learning, is the way they want to live the rest of their lives. If this isn’t brainwashing – then what is?!

    They say that with cults, one of the things that is done to brainwash victims is taking people away from everything and everyone familiar to them. Isolating them from all that is familiar to them. Then they talk to them 24/7 and inundate them with the ideas and beliefs of the cult. Why has nobody realized that that is EXACTLY what a year in Seminary and Yeshiva in Israel does?

    These young kids come home from a year away from home, away from the values and the frumkeit that their parents spent 17-18 years instilling in them, and they are starry-eyed zombies, talking about Olam Habah and the payment they will get L’olam Va’ed from marrying forever-learning-only boys, and the boys who say college is assur and is apikorsus, etc. What happened to what they learned in their homes for 17-18 years? It’s all out the window, replaced with a brainwashed version of what only works if one is living in Israel. This has been going on for years and years, and everyone keeps going along with it as though it were normal. Sure, people talk about it taking a few months to a year to come down from “The Seminary High.” But what IS that if not brainwashing?! Is this what we want to be doing with our kids? I know families who were very clear with their daughters that they do NOT have the money to support them in learning, and their girls were very understanding and promised not to be brainwashed in Seminary, only to come home insisting that they understand that their parents don’t want to support them, but they MUST marry learning boys because they know that this is the right way to build a Torah life. Their parents can try to talk sense into them, but to no avail.

    This is a big mess! And people need to wake up and realize that this year in Israel in Seminary for girls and in Yeshivah for boys, has become nothing less than a year of cult-like-brainwashing of young minds. (And for those who “believe” scientific studies – it has been shown that the brains of teenagers are not yet fully developed as adults. The Israeli army knows this and will only accept kids up until a certain age, because after that cutoff age their minds are their own and they wont anymore as they begin to think critically. It is at this still-impressionable age that we send kids away to get brainwashed with extreme hashkafos which do not work in America and cannot succeed in supporting an honest, frum family life.

    • Your points are very interesting and intelligent and should be considered by all parents. The Israel/ seminary yeshiva year is a big money making industry that puts a lot of unnecessary financial pressure on already financially stressed frum families. It’s gotten to the point that if your kid doesn’t go to Israel for at least 1 year it’s a “chas v shalom” and they won’t get a shidduch. So ridiculous! Same goes for all these expensive weddings families are expected to take loans for. Why can’t weddings be small and affordable??? Many frum families certainly suffer from all this unnecessary financial pressure to do the “in thing.” Thank you for sharing your insights.

  57. We may not always agree on everything, but I want to state my support for Yerachmiel, and for the important service this blog serves in exposing molesters who disguise themselves as Tzadikim. Although I am not personally familiar with the Meisels case, I am personally familiar with the Dovid Weinberger case, and I observed how Yerachmiel refrained from posting that story until very prominent Rabbanim in the Five Towns finally took the almost unprecedented step of publicizing it. That is very similar to what seems to be happening in the Meisels case

    As someone close to a victim of abuse, I know with certainty that a molester is a Rodeif, because abuse puts victims’ very lives in danger, physically, emotionally, and/or spiritually (with the help of a good therapist and expensive therapy (that the molester almost never pays for), the victim can, hopefully, overcome this). Those who are overly concerned about Lashon Horah are simply ignorant of the dangers of abuse: the Chofetz Chaim never said that you have to meet the 7 conditions of Toeles before warning Reuven that Shimon is plotting to murder him.

  58. Pingback: A wolf in sheep’s clothing | Kol B'Isha Erva

  59. PLEASE READ!

    ESPECIALLY PARENTS!

    I don’t have the patience to read through countless of comments of people who have no idea of what’s going on and are spewing their two sense based on a letter. People will believe everything they read these days which is very scary and the argument “how can you argue with Beis din?” Is a pretty hard argument to make being that not all the facts that are in this letter are legitimate. If they would have done their research, which I’m sure they did, but failed to mention that Rabbi Meisels withdrew from his position and is having nothing to do with any of the seminaries as of a few months ago. Therefore no one is “at risk”, being that he is not even going to step foot or go anywhere near any of these seminaries. All of these seminaries are amazing on their own, regardless of this situation, and have improved the lives of thousands of girls. For a Beis din to tell girls not to go to these seminaries is crazy! Rabbi Meisels isn’t even going to be involved in any of them!! What are 300+ girls supposed to do now? What about all the parnasos of all the teachers, rabbeim, secretaries, cooks, ect? They are all in jeopardy! This is why I question the Beis Din. How can they ruin so many peoples lives like that? AGAIN RABBI MEISELS PULLED OUT OF ALL SEMINARIES. This Beis Din has no right to scare everyone like that. They’ve done so much damage. When you call one of these signatures all they say is it’s true and don’t send your daughter because she might be at risk. WHAT ARE THEY SAYING?!?! They don’t even know what’s going on! They don’t know how beautiful these seminaries are regardless of Rabbi Meisels. I feel like I have to mention this again and a billion other times until people get it. RABBI MEISELS IS NOT BEING INVOLVED IN ANY SEMINARY ANYMORE! Please understand this and don’t ruin the lives of so many other people. If this accusation is true or not… I will never know because I wasn’t there! And I am not going to go crazy and believe everything that is being said, especially when a Beis Din puts out a letter with faults. All I know is that I attended Pninim this past year and it was truly the best year of my life. Rabbi Meisels was hardly even involved this year. It was all the amazing rabbeim, teachers, classes and the whole package that made pninim what it is. Pninim is a real, one on one, caring, there for you, generous, whole hearted, amazing, life changing seminary and no one will tell you otherwise even in this difficult time. I’m proud to say that I will be attending Pninim shana bet and I feel bad for any girl who decides not to come because of this current situation. Sadly they will be missing out tremendously. I too would be very confused if I were a girl attending one of these seminaries for this coming year, but the fact that I have already attended and I know what it’s all about, I wouldn’t be worried for a second because I wouldn’t want to miss out on such an amazing experience! And yes I’m saying it yet again… RABBI MEISELS WILL NOT BE THERE THIS COMING YEAR AND SO ON. I personally felt that I was chiuv to defend my seminary being that it can continue raising many more jewish neshamos to their greatest potentials. I hope this comment makes a difference to all who read.

    -Pninim Girl

    • Show me written proof that the Meisels are out of the seminary business. I have trustworthy sources who confirm that the negotiations about this issue are still ongoing. I strongly suspect you were either duped or are deliberately lying.

      • Based on the comments here from either the actual seminary girls or the sock puppets, it seems that these institutions are rotten to the core if they can’t train girls to believe a respected Bais Din, and to malign them, rather than to believe that their Dear Leader Mr. Meisels could actually be in the wrong. That’s quite sick.

          • If th Beis din would come out and say that he was found guilty of the allegations, trust me all the seminary girls would listen to that. The fact is that he wasn’t found guilty of anything, only accused, and therefore we stand by our respected rabbi who taught us so so much this year.

            • No good deed goes unpunished. The Beis Din made it clear that they concluded no one should trust Meisels or attend his seminaries. Clearly they believed reports of serious misconduct. Their sense of modesty and wish to minimize damaging info about Meisels led them to provide the minimum information necessary to protect students. Yes, for people like you in the future, such battei dinim should offer up the gory details. But even so, they made it clear he is quite guilty.

        • I NEVER said that I was on his side. NOT ONCE. I purposely left him out of this. All I did was defend the seminary and it’s attributes.

        • Well said! 100% correct. These comments in defense of meisels are disturbing and illustrate the sick power and control of abusers that know how to charm and manipulate vulnerable girls! Why were the female teachers and principals not protecting these girls?? They should also be help accountable!

      • And I have trustworthy sources who confirm that he withdrew his position. You honestly believe that a Rav would continue to work in seminaries after being accused of such things? No one would come. We were told this already this past year while in seminary that rabbi Meisels is leaving and that our vice principal is becoming principal next year. Call up any of the schools and they’ll tell you. Don’t need more proof than that

    • Your loyalty is to be commended. As a parent, I can tell you that the children (even seminary girls) are the ones to be protected. not parnosos, not teachers, not rabbis — the children come first. I am confident that the bais din took the facts into account and also recognize that the children come first. If one girl was seduced/abused/or the subject of improper advances let the seminaries close rather than subject one bas yisroel to amy potential peril. as an aside there were quite a few.

      • I am putting the children first. These 300+ girls now have no seminary to go to and will lose out on their seminary israel experience due to this. If the rabbi who was accused of doing such things is cutting off all ties, there is no risk, you better believe that extra precaution will take place that nothing like this will happen in the future. If only one rabbi was accused and is out. I see no reason to close five beautiful seminaries. Than you might as well just close all seminaries in israel due to the fact that they all have rabbi’s/male teachers in them and can all be potentially harmful. If that’s what your saying

    • Nobody’s going to read that long rant. But what’s clear is that Meisels created mind-numbed robots just like Pninim Girl and many others out there who continue to provide cover for Meisels. My speculation is that even with Meisels out of the picture, the staff has become infected and are the type the also provide cover to those who have an inclination to prey on the weak. Pninim Girl is a prime exhibit.

      • Again not once have I ever claimed his innocence. All I did was defend the seminaries and their attributes. No robots here

        • Everyone please note that there are a few DIFFERENT girls leaving comments under the username “Pninim girl”

        • Well, for starters, Pninim Girl, In order to try to establish any credibility or veracity on this site, just for starters, you better go back and edit your comment at 12:29PM today. There probably are more, just chose that one at random. It is indeed possible that you got your various sockpuppet names confused… this per your comment last comment that “again not once have i ever proclaimed his innocence” that one at 8:08PM. Frankly you better go back and recheck what you said under which names. good luck, you are in far too deep, but clean up your mess, OK?.

          • Actually I’m the one that wrote that. I changed my surname to Pninim girl 1 after I saw that another girl was commenting with the same username

            • Yeah, and I am otherwise known as the rebbe. nice try. and such a really quick recoup. amaziing. kol hakavod. but you have no kavod.
              BTW, since you seem so sincere, I’ve been wondering what the age of consent is in Israel, and if any of your seminary mates were under that age. I think you should know the answer to that. and by under that age, I am referring at the time that each individual’s abuse started, not their current age. Who knows, we may have another YU incident here, with many within the SOL. Do you know what the SOL is in Israel? Do you know for how many years your mr. measles has been spewing his seed? or rather i meant seedy behavior.

  60. I am new to this site and only came her because I know “MR” Miesels. Also I know all the rabonim who signed on the letter.
    I ask Mr. Lopin. What happens after you die and you come in front of G-d and he tells you that one of the many stories that you posted here was wrong. Just plain fabricated. Made up. Even if they were convicted or a bais din came out with a letter or even if they “confessed” for some reason or another. The facts were just wrong.
    What will you say? How will you get out of it? You play with explosives while holding lighter fluid and a match. If there is one story here that ends up just to be wrong, you are cooked.I am very curious how you function as a jew while writing this blog. This is a wholesome pure question and I hope you answer it for me. Thank you

    • I should fear failing at my mission of protecting people from sexual predators. As Jews we are not required to be perfect but to do our best. You should fear having to come before the kissei hakavod and admit that you defended someone who was then able to go on to harm others. The neviim worried much less about protecting the famous than the weak and helpless.

      The explosives are out there blowing up the lives of innocents. I am a fire brigade.

      I hope to never be wrong and I exercise a lot of diligence. But I can live with the slight possibility of making a mistake. What is shameful is those who cover up for sex offenders.

    • You should take it up with Rabbis Fuerst, Schwartz and Cohen. I assume that you called them to ask them the very same questions, didn’t you? if not, then you have no leg to stand on. They issued a decision, and they know what they’re doing. Has anyone of stature, besides the friends/family nattering over here, come out in his defense?

      Thought not.

      • Gotta give Measels credit for rounding so many kool-aid drinking groupies to get on (the assur) Internet and repeat the same nahrishkeit.

        What a bunch of fools. You supposedly learned and grew in Torah so much from Mr. Measels yet you think we should all ignore the psak of a bais din of well known talmidai chachomim based on allegations made by obvious sock puppets commenting anonymously on the (treif) internet.

        Some great chinuch you girls got from this menuval.

        • Idk who you’ve been talking to, but the Beis din has never actually made a “psak”

        • Pninim Girl 1, why, after reading the letter, do you insist that it’s not a psak? How many 19 year old girls even talk like that, or even venture to know a non-fact like that? That’s why you get accused of sock-puppetry, which means that you’re probably Meisels or one of his higher-up staff PRETENDING to be a young sem girl.

          • Triangle, YL, et al:
            If there are negotiations to sell the 4 or 5 seminaries, either as functioning institutions of learning or simply for the Real Estate, assuming measle owns the real estate, there remains massive motivation to maintain the good name of the schools and to get enrolment for next year. Measles can find sexual victims elsewhere he does not need to continue working there, which by now is an impossibility bein ko v’ko, now his bigger problem is unloading the seminaries, or so it seems to me. Caveat: I really clearly have no idea what is transpiring in that area. But the emphasis has shifted from defending him, to defending the institutions. as the day has progressed…..just an observation. Perhaps I am all wrong about that. And perhaps YL you have further information re his disposing of the schools and land???? any negotiations in that area. That would seem to be the major sticking point right now. BWDIK.

    • bob@6:49PM. So you claim to know the 3 Rabbi’s who comprise the Beis Din. and you are worried about Yerachmiel’s soul?? Wonders will never cease. You out of hand dismiss their ruling, and you know them, meleh, if you didn’t, and you know the minuval measles. Your worry would be far more efficacious if it were directed to the molester’s soul. But clearly you are far far from a Tsadik, way below a Beinoni, so you will have no audience. Good luck with that.

    • Your writing is quite excellent but it lacks substance.
      You write that you can live with the possibility of making a mistake? No you can’t. If you make a mistake, your punishment is unfathomable. You know what happens when you are right. And all the ramifications that go along with it. But if you are wrong, that is multiplied a million fold. No human being knows what the punishment would be.
      So I ask you again. What is YOUR answer going to be. Nothing to do about anyone else.
      Also, if you would like to help pple how come you did not take the avenues of becoming a social worker and/or helping in an orginization that helps victims of abuse. Sitting on a blog and posting names and stories of ppl who are/might be/should be molesters does not do much service except confuse the public. As you saw from the bais din, they informed the proper ppl (principals of schools and the like) in order to actively save the population. Any insight would be quite interesting

      • Fantastic bob, you are following the script exactly. Waiting for the final denouement when you call Yerachmiel a Nazi.

  61. Chofetz Chaim (Hilchos Issure lashon harah klall 4:10): Despite this, if you see bad character traits in another person such as conceit, anger or other bad traits or he neglects his Torah studies etc, it is correct to tell this to his son or his students to warn them not to associate with that person in order that they not learn from his deeds. That is because the basis for the Torah prohibiting lashon harah – even if it is true – is if it is done to degrade the other and to rejoice in his debasement. However if the speaker’s intent is to protect others so that they don’t learn from his bad deed – it is clear that it is permitted and in fact it is a mitzva to disclose this person’s actions. However in these types of cases it would seem that it is also a mitzva for the speaker to explain the reason why he is speaking negatively about another person in order that the listeners don’t make the mistake of thinking that these types of comments are typically permitted. In addition that he should not be viewed as a hypocrite since at other times he has said it is prohibited to speak badly of others – even if it is the truth.

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2014/07/lashon-harah-informing-his-students-or.html

    Yes, Meisels groupies, the chofetz chaim thinks it is a mitzvah to expose the likes of Elimelech.

    • Everyone is hating on all these “sock puppet robots” do you really blame them? Imagine tomorrow you heard that your Rav who you trust in so much was accused of such things. Take a minute to really think about it. YOUR RAV. You would believe it in a second? You wouldn’t find it hard to believe? It’s very hard on all these girls. And AGAIN I wasn’t even defending him not once in any of my comments. I never claimed him innocent. All I did was defend the seminaries. That’s all.

    • Warning people is allowed IF and only IF it is the absolute truth. I’m not saying what he did or didn’t so because I don’t know. But can you say that you do know?

      • This is why people say you’re mind-numbed. It’s not that there was a mumbo-jumbo phony-baloney, plastic banana, good-time rock n’roll accusation. It came from a highly respected Bais Din. They already made a determination, and have been verifying it to anyone that called them since Thursday night. That’s not up for dispute. What is up for dispute is whether the Pninim girls and/or the faculty/staff that have been posting here are able to believe it. I don’t need to know the details because the three Rabbonim already know them.

        Do you watch every sh’chita yourself, or do you rely on the Rabbonim who put a hechsher on the product? This is very much the same thing. I am more than happy to stake my life on the words of those three, and plenty of people ask life and death shailos to all three on a daily basis. That being the case, I am certainly willing to accept AS FACT that what they determined is the truth.

      • As much as it is possible to know, I can say, “I know.” Pninim girl 1, don’t find factual kvetches to avoid facing unpleasant facts. If you get a cancer diagnosis after three pathologists each reviewed a biopsy, there is still a possibility of error. Does one then refuse to deal with the bad news. We are mortals and fallible but nevertheless we are charged with the obligations ubiartem es harah maykirbechah (expunge the evil from your midst), lo saamod (do not stand by on the blood of another), pikuach nefesh (saving and protecting lives which includes the suicide risks of those abuse), and din rodef (acting against those who are threatening the lives of others).

        Pninim girl 1, will you hesitate before calling 911 if you see someone chasing your sister down the street with a knife. After all, he could merely be waving his eating utensil incidental to trying to get your sisters attention to return her wallet which she dropped. could you be sure of the “ABSOLUTE TRUTH” of the risk that you think you are seeing? Would you worry about mesirah and loshon horah? Or would you behave like a good Jew and seicheldik human and just call the police as fast as you could could? I hope you would call? I think you would call. Correct me if I am wrong.

  62. Bob, certain facts on the ground changed (no doubt having to do with Mr. Meisels’ level of cooperation, or lack thereof) and they publicized their ruling. The fact that none of them actually put it on a blog owes more to the fact that they rely on phone communications, and barely, if at all use email, much less involve themselves in blogs. But there certainly was an intention to spread the news.

    • You spoke with them? They told you that this news should be spread far and wide? The original letter was not for public consumption. It was for heads of schools and principals.

      • Well, bob. Now you know. The Chicago Beis Din understood that Mr. Meisels would be defended by people like you. They tried everything from the lashon hara defense to the “you’re not certain” defense to the “he’s so amazing defense” and now, the questions about having the letter go public.

        This was all necessary. Don’t you see? Every one of these stupid, wrong-headed and downright evil defenses needed to be refuted and shut down. Only through a VERY public airing was anything accomplished. And it took time, and over 400 comments back and forth.

        And at the end, the truth did come out. And it very much needed to be done in a public forum.

  63. Pininim girls – you are 100% correct about your world falling apart when your rav is accused. I went thru it myself and it was devastating. But you and the others must understand that if we, as a community, would stop covering for perpetrators and start protecting our children these blogs would not be needed. When we as a nation of yidden will stand up and face our molesters and stop destroying our victims, they will be able to hold their heads high and speak out in real life instead of on blogs – the only place they can speak without fearing being run out of town. These blogs are evidence of our failing as a nation of Gd fearing people to take responsibility for our children and stand against those who hurt them.

  64. First of all, the amount of Lashon Hara and complete and utter betrayal and lack of loyalty is extremely disheartening. To see that a man who has helped so many, specifically, so many of the children of the parents ripping him apart on this blog, could lose this much support over an allegation, says something about the people jumping ship so quickly. I would hate to think what would happen if the same allegation was presented against them, and it turned out to be false. How they would be lost without the support of all the people who’s loyalties lie wherever the crowd takes them. I can only hope that when it comes to their judgement time, they are not judged as quickly as they have judged this Rabbi.

    The fact is that unfortunately at this point it is a lose-lose situation. On one hand, If Rabbi Meisels is proven guilty – which I will clarify – he hasn’t been, this will overshadow the extreme positive impact he has had on the seminary world and on countless girls in previous years. If it is shown that Rabbi Meisels is not guilty of these allegations, it will only serve to show the unfortunate ability for a Beis Din to be strong armed into making a decision that is by all accounts against Din Torah.

    Either way, until something has been proven, the lack of support only goes to show how easily we are divided. Until there is strength in Am Yisroel, we have no hope of survival. The animosity and ruthless betrayal here is what can only lead to the destruction of Klal Yisroel. Show some support for your brothers.

    • Let me translate your baroque comment: Meisels is innocent, the beis din in Chicago was strong armed and unethical, and the whole world is unfair to the tzadik hador Elimelech Meisels.

      Rejoinder: them ain’t the facts. It is no tragedy to have him exposed because he is a hazard; many were saved by this process of removing him from chinuch.

      • Thank you for your completely inaccurate translation – allow me to bring you back to what I was actually saying. I’m pretty sure I never stated that Meisels was innocent, I simply said that the letter which you so proudly published actually uses the word ‘allegations.’ Allow me to translate that word for you since you have failed to correctly translate things in the past. An allegation is a claim that until it has been proven – which, allow me to remind you, it hasn’t – remains an assertion.

        Additionally, I didn’t actually say that the Beis Din WAS strong armed, however since these are only allegations, if Meisels is proven to be innocent it means that the circulating story about the spoilt Chicago brat is 100% true. And let me re-iterate my last point which you happened to half manage to understand. While I never said that Rabbi Meisels was the Tzaddik HaDor (That was your own brilliant input), I did say that this blog is extremely unfair. Besides for the lack of proof, which should be reason enough to hold back on the blatant Lashon Hara, the evil comments here that trace his lineage and are here purely to taint his name and his family are a disgrace to the values of Yiddishkeit you pretend to so strongly advocate with your apparent need for this crusade of ‘justice.’

    • PROOVEN ?????????
      how troubling. you and the others have had your center of Jewish gravity shifted that you will at all cost refuse to recognize bais din and recognized rabbonim in favor of your deified idol. YOU underscore the problem. What proof do you want — videos

      Maybe the names of the victims — who will be harmed for life if the proofs are made public

      All to benefit the children who cant understand that rabbonim are deliberate and measured in these matters — that kids have been falsely lulled into believing that THEIR rabbi can do no harm

      do you need proof or respect for rabbonim over your misplaced trust in someone who ABUSED the very trust parents put in him

      YOUR collective attitude has allowed molestation and abuse to grow like a cancer — because in the final analysis you dont believe —

      I hope these type of problems are arrested before you deal with raising your children iyh — as the embarrasment you will feel for your misplaced and infantile defense of evil will haunt you

      • Excellent analysis. And proof that the Meisels defenders here fall neatly into two categories:
        1) Mind-numbed robots who cannot understand that their Dear Leader could do anything wrong, despite proof to the contrary.

        2) Meisels himself (who no doubt by now lacks that charismatic smile in the photo at the beginning of the article) and/or his staff acting as sock puppets. In all of the discussions here, none of them have had the guts to admit that they were staff. It only shows their “win at all costs” attitude which is the exact opposite of Daas Torah.

        On the other hand, the Chicago Bais Din is Dass Torah personified

        • While I appreciate your brilliant analysis of the two people who could obviously be the only ones to defend Rabbi Meisels, you conveniently forgot to mention those who would be so quick to slaughter his name.
          1. Those who place no value on facts – Rabbi Meisels has not been proven to have done anything wrong, yet you have no issue forgetting this major point.
          2. As you so well put it ‘mind-numbed robots’ – except you wrongly labelled them as people loyal to a Rabbi who has produced 5 renowned seminaries. Rather, these ‘robots’ are those individuals who jump on the band-wagon to destroy someone in a position of authority without any thought for the consequences, should these ‘allegations’ be dismissed.

        • Triangle-
          No one here is , as you so eloquently put it, a “mind-numbed robot who cannot understand that their Dear Leader could do anything wrong”
          Imagine if someone whom you highly respect and who has helped you immensely, and was the last person you would expect to be accused of such things, was said to have engaged in sexual misconduct. How easy would it be for you to believe or accept it, especially if the claims are all allegations? I am not saying that I know if he did or did not do it, I’m just saying that you should not be so quick to judge his defenders as brain-dead.

  65. The Israel beis din named in the Chicago letter as being in charge of the case ,has now issued their own letter refuting the Chicago letter.It states that there is no problem whatsoever for girls to attend any of the mentioned seminaries .That rabbi Meisels agreed immediately to follow whatever the beis din wanted him to do.And that no conclusion has been reached in regards to the allegations.

    • assuming this is true, the fact that they have not YET reached a conclusion means that they are making independent inquiry — it does not mean that the conclusions of fact are incorrect

    • That is correct. I heard from a source very close to the matter that the beis din in Israel mentioned in the letter , is coming out pro R’ Meisels. O heard the letter wll be out tomorrow. Time will tell,

  66. Is this Elimelech’s father Rabbi Michael Meisels who pleaded the 5th when the Feds were investigating him for Pell grant fraud? Not noted in this article but molester champion the Munkatcher Rebbe was another major focus in Federal investigations into Pell grant fraud.

    http://www.jta.org/1993/10/29/archive/jewish-schools-come-under-fire-for-alleged-abuses-in-federal-aid

    According to Sen. Claiborne Pell (D-R.I.), the grant program that bears his name has awarded almost $64 billion in grants since it began more than 20 years ago.

    Rabbis from two of the yeshivot under investigation were scheduled to testify before the subcommittee Thursday, but they did not appear.

    The rabbis are Simche Waldman, the administrator of Bais Fruma in Brooklyn, and Michoel Meisels, dean of Sara Schenirer Teachers Seminary in Brooklyn.

    In a statement read by Sen. Nunn, the rabbis asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

    Nunn, while acknowledging the rabbis’ right not to testify, voiced agitation at their absence.
    “We have not heard the whole story” if the rabbis refuse to testify, Nunn said.

    He added that the subcommittee could choose to compel the rabbis to testify if it also gave them immunity from prosecution.

    Sen. Cohen called their actions “disconcerting.”

    “We should look into whether an institution under investigation can continue to receive federal funding when it does not cooperate” with the investigation, Cohen said.

    • Wow! Please keep us informed on this alleged pell grant fraud. Wonder why the “rabbis” didn’t show up to testify???

  67. Benny says:
    “Benny Forer says:
    07/13/2014 at 4:38 pm
    Sam, you are absolutely correct. A sick person can accuse another. However, professionals in this field are experienced at vetting individuals, victims and witnesses. Presumably, a b’d also has that skill (requiring 2 aidim to prove a criminal matter, or one eid on a civil matter)……These public cases have been thoroughly vetted, examined, and cross-examined. Only then do these allegations get made public…..”

    Benny, yes, in a perfect world, but surely you know of batei dinim who don’t act in accordance with such standards you describe here. From having friends who have had personal run-ins with Rabbi Feurst, I can say he can be quite the bulldozer (think: Belsky) if he wants to destroy someone.

    On a larger note, YL, I follow your blog with interest, and you are certainly not shy of denouncing corrupt Rabbis when you believe that is appropriate. How do you know for certain this group of Rabbis is not similarly corrupt? I have no stake in the game here and Meisles’ innocence or guilt has no bearing on my life. And I am perefectly willing to believe the accusations. But it does strike me as odd that the ones who are first to call out Rabbis on their corrupt behavior are shocked that some people here express doubt as to the validity of the psak. YL, DID YOU REALLY JUST BECOME SOMEONE WHO SAID “THIS MUST BE TRUE – BECAUSE THE RABBIS SAY SO!” ??

    • Not because any rabbi said it. Because these three rabbis said it. I am most familiar with Rav Schwartz’s outstanding reputation for intelligence, lomdus, experience in dayanus, acumen about sex abuse, and integrity. If he has any shortcoming it is his reluctance to get into fights. So if he decided to take on this fight it means a lot to me. Notwithstanding your comments about Feurst, that is not what I hear about him.

      In contrast, a Belsky psak is not worth the paper it is written on, especially when he was paid by one party or has a financial interest.

  68. The talmidos should not be allowed to have a relationship with someone on the hanhala until Shvat

  69. http://archive.org/stream/abusesinfederals00unit/abusesinfederals00unit_djvu.txt

    The Staffs inquiry into the operation of Sara Schenirer Teachers
    Seminary has been difficult and time-consuming. While we have
    uncovered evidence of what the Staff considers to be abuse of the
    Federal Pell Grant program at Sara Schenirer, we have to date
    been unable to determine all of the facts concerning the school’s
    participation in the Federal program. This is largely due to the fact
    that no one at the school will consent to be interviewed by the Sub-
    committee Staff. As a result, the Subcommittee issued deposition
    notices and appearance subpoenas to Mr. Michoel J. Meisels, the
    president and dean and to Mrs. Toby Broyde, the director of stu-
    dent financial aid.

    Counsel for both Meisels and Broyde advised the witnesses
    would decline to testify citing their Fifth Amendment privilege,
    protecting them from self-incrimination, i Counsel for the school
    also advised the Staff that his recommendation to any other em-
    ployees of the school which the Subcommittee may subpoena for
    testimony would be that the employee not answer any of the Sub-
    committee’s questions and invoke the constitutional privilege. So
    the Staff had to rely almost exclusively on document review and
    interviews of students to learn anything about the operations of the
    school.

    Attempts to obtain information from the school’s board of direc-
    tors resulted in the same response. Mr. Yitzchak Eichenthal, a
    CPA and member of the board; Mr. Elyasaf Slanger, the current
    chairman of the board; and Mr. Samuel B. Tress, the former chair-
    man of the board, all advised through counsel that they too would
    assert their right not to incriminate themselves if called to testify
    in deposition.

    No one at this school will cooperate with the Congress in its ex-
    amination of their receipt of over $11 milUon in Federal funds.

    “In a 1992 audit of the school’s participation of the Federal Student Aid Programs,
    an independent auditor noted that:

    “A break-in at the institution’s facilities occurred earlier this year in
    which certain institutional records were damaged or stolen.”

    (Margulies also claimed to have a ‘break in’ at Torah Temimah, on Shabbos no less, during the Kolko investigation)

  70. Yerachmiel I actually just got a copy of the letter from the beis din in Israel but I don’t know how to put it into a comment.The letter seems to be true to what I wrote earlier,in that it says the seminaries have no issues at the time and all girls can go without a problem,as R meisels has agreed to disassociate with the seminaries and follow whatever the bais din decides.It also says that no conclusion has been made on the actual allegations.The very pareve wording in this letter would also suggest that they don’t believe the allegations even if credible to be that earthshattering.As an aside Im not familiar with the other dayyanim but rav malinowitz is well known as someone who fearlessly states his views

    • if he has agreed to follow their jurisdiction , leave the mosdos (and the millions of dollars in advance deposits) the countervailing interest may be to protect the many hundreds of graduates whose reputations may be tainted by association with the seminaries — this is especially true as the first bais din has already said all that has to be said regarding the details

      at the end of the day there are competing interests
      1. the future safety of students
      2. removing the problem
      3. not harming past students – whether they are direct victims or liable to be tainted by association

      hen its all said and done we need not and should not have the details — rather we should have confidence and faith that respected third party rabbonim will approach this with the sensitivity it deserves while protecting the innocent students — even those innocent young ladies who may have fallen prey

      • mz,
        I mostly agree with what you have written. Just one Major Point.
        That is concerning being “tainted by association”. I hardly think that all former students will become “tainted”. The danger is only for future and current students.
        In support of my statement::

        Evidence one: have all of the thousands, tens of thousands of former YU students been tainted due to the abuse that was prevalent there (back in the 80’s?? mostly I think). Hardly. Are men afraid now to say that they are graduates of YU?

        Data Point two: Sometime last spring a young student from the seminary in Skokie published on her FB page that she had been raped. The Dean of Women wrote her an email, which included, amongst various other horrific inappropriate attacks, that she “had tainted the reputations of her peers”. That was Esther Shkopf. Dean of women at the Skokie, Illinois seminary. That email from Shkopf was a shonda, and was written about in the blogs for days, (she later apologized, she panicked when a fellow classmate emailed her the FB site). Esther, it appears was “tainted” by the horrific video recorded of Manis Freedman denigrating sexual abuse, enlikening it to diarrhea.
        Along with the concept of “yichus”, the concept of “tainted” needs to be stricken from the frum mentality.

    • I have received a copy and will post after I verify authenticity and translate. Based on the document I received, assuming it is the same as yours, I believe it is open to a lot of interpretations because they avoid being very specific about most issues. To the extent that they protect anything it is the reputation of the remaining staff, not Meisels himself.

      • Interesting how you allow for interpretation of a letter that doesn’t slander an entire institution, but so readily accept a letter that is quick to throw 5 seminaries and their faculties in the same basket

      • Yerachmiel ,I believe that once u have taken a side in this case that is now pushing you to interpret the Israeli beis din letter the way you want.Fact is the letter clearly states that Meisels agreed to whatever beis din wanted from the start and with that being the fact it calls to question why did the Chicago Beis Din release their letter in the first place?Did someone there have a axe to grind?Additionally by clearly writing that the investigation is ongoing and no conclusion has been reached as to the allegations,that too stands in stark contrast to what the Chicago Beis Din wrote.

  71. First thing I want to say is that I know RABBI Meisels personally, and I, and practically everyone else that knows him, does not believe this story at all! And yes, I wrote Rabbi in all uppercase because you do not have the right to call him anything but Rabbi, because he is a Rabbi and he is innocent.
    Second of all, don’t you have better things to do than to publicize Jews in negative light? Why cant we let the Beis Din and Rabbi Meisels deal with this issue (and the girl that falsely accused him). Why do you need to publicize it to the world, and make up responses to people that believe he is innocent backing up the girls that are lying about him. You have no idea what psychological issues this girl has, and you really don’t know the full story. I am not ignorant to think that these things don’t happen in the Jewish world, and I know they do.. but Rabbi Meisels didn’t do anything like that! There is no proof that he did! instead of backing up girls that are making up a story and accusing an innocent man, why don’t you go check the facts? is there legitimate proof that he did anything wrong? One girl said he did something, and over 500 girls said he didn’t. Wow! that sounds pretty convincing don’t you think? At the end of the day, the person who did wrong will be judged by Hashem, so why do we have to do it to a person that we don’t know for sure did anything. But to continuously publicize stories like these, and to put down all the people that don’t believe its true, by saying comments like “maybe he didn’t do it to you, but he did it to someone else..” is honestly lame.
    And no, my head is NOT in the sand.

    • Blaming the victim 101. Standard defense for people who take advantage of the weak. And just how do you know? The Chicago Bais Din investigated it and you didn’t.

    • i love how u guyz are so frum on this stupid gossop blog ie rabb” and whos “psak” is more right!!!! yukkkk u guyz are killing me if u want to gossop dont use jewish terms! its grossing the hekk outta me!!!(thats a) b.mr whatever the hell ur name is, if u honestly ceard about us young people and try to be nice to us u wldnt do it like this!!!! i think youre a bored teenager!!!!! (whos probably paid todo this crap!) and c. I HATE YOU!!!!!! and please go see a thearopist! or go smoke up!

  72. It’s quite interesting that this is only posted on one site. If was really real then it would be flashing all over the news. Its probably some rich kid that is trying to pull this off. People be careful before sending this link to your colleagues it is not proven yet and it can be motzei shem ra.

  73. I have seen the letter from the Beis Din in Israel. Start working on your spin-job MR. Lopian. It clearly states that it’s perfectly acceptable to send children to all those Seminaries mentioned on the Chicago paper.

    • We will see if R’ Fuerst is still telling people not to send there. Others have pointed out that the defense of Meisels has now transitioned to a defense of the seminaries. Amazing what happens in just one day.

      • i went to peninm this year…and it kills me to see how people are talking such garbage about someone who i respect! ( or shall i say we all respect!) i loved peninm. and i have theyr back! so screw you all

  74. Nobody knows if he did anything or not I don’t care how well you know him you can’t say he didn’t do anything ok he didn’t do anything to you but maybe he did stuff to other students. But it doesn’t really matter if he did stuff or not because he is having NOTHING to do with any of his seminarys (the people going to his seminarys know that) and his seminarys are still great places to go and will change your life for the better. So please anyone who is planning to go to one of his seminarys next year still go it will change your life I know it changed mine.

  75. I WANT EVERYONE TO READ THIS…I have never commented on a blog before, but I could not hold myself back from writing…so listen well, all of you. I am a VERY PROUD graduate of both Pninim and Chedvas Bais Yaakov. I am in no way a “troubled girl”. In fact, I was very well respected as a student amongst the staff and very well liked throughout my shana bet and aleph years. Meisels’ schools are AMAZING and LIFE-CHANGING. And I speak for HUNDREDS of girl when I say “I don’t know where I’d be without Pninim and the staff there.”
    This is including Meisels himself, who has done a tremendous amount chessed and literally saved hundreds of lives. LITERALLY.

    HOWEVER, even though I had and still have an enormous amount of hakaras hatov to Meisels, during my year in seminary I had witness DISGUSTING (disgusting is a strong word and I am USING it), I had witnessed disgusting and inappropriate interactions and comments by Meisels himself with the students and one female staff in particular. I was so distraught, bc I respected him tremendously, and here was my “hero” doing disgraceful things and not acting like a role model in my eyes. I even went so far as to approach Meisels himself and told him “I know what you are doing. I can see through your charming mask like most cannot. You need to stop what you are doing. You are doing more damage than repairs. Please. For your sake, for your kavod, and for the girls.” No matter how disgusted I was, I owed him a lot and wanted to protect him. But obv nothing came from it and he did not listen. I took my complaints to other people, and I am glad that this Bais Din “finished what I had started.”

    Again, I am only saying this once- Rabbi Meisels is a true Baal Chesed like no one can believe. NO ONE can take away from his zechus in the world to come from all the amazing things he has done to effect the world. HOWEVER, he is also extremely manipulative, untrustworthy, deceitful, and dangerous. This is not name calling. This is TRUTH. This is from FIRST- HAND experience that I have gone through with my rocky “relationship with him” and many others can attest to it as well.

    (As a side point, there are many girls from Pninim who said that they are not surprised by any of this.)

    I have tremendous Pninim pride. Pninim is my family and I will NOT desert my family. The staff there are my family and are amazing. Do not DARE bash them. I will fervently stand up for them. There is a reason why so many girls have been writing how amazing Pninim is- bc it IS amazing! There is no place like it- no exaggeration! After Meisels gives up the seminaries, I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE everyone to send their daughters to these schools. You will be making an extremely poor move if you choose to withdraw them. Please trust me.

    Whoever posted about this Aim Bayit of Pninim defending him, you are IGNORANT AND NAIVE. You are disgraceful. You do not represent Torah. You represent a Meisels-Cult. Again, if I would reveal my name, the teachers (including Meisels himself) would only have extraordinary things to say about me. I am no where near a “troubled girl” who “wants to get revenge” or “is jealous”. Chas V’shalom. Very far from it. You Meisels-Cult do not respect great authorities like the tremendous Rabbis who signed this letter.

    OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD ENOUGH CONCRETE PROOF TO SIGN THE LETTER AND MAKE SUCH A BOLD ACTION TO MAKE IT PUBLIC. YOU ARE IGNORANT. people are saying “we want proof.” This letter IS proof! I am assuming that the details might come out later, but for now, it is being kept under the radar for smart reasons. Whoever could not connect these dots, sorry to say, but you don’t have much of a seichel.

    You can go back to your Aim Bayit and tell her she is disgraceful and naive and so are you. You have no respect for Torah. Only Meisels, who is no where NEAR the stature of these three Rabbis from the Chicago Bais Din. How shameful of you.

    Everyone on this site can take my word for it- I am an extremely reliable source and I also plan on personally speaking to Rabbi Fuerst myself over this matter. I am objective, honest, and I seek Emes above all else.

    • Well said, Truthseeker. I couldn’t have said that better myself. Doing chessed for the students, and unfortunately molesting them is not a contradiction.

    • Truthseeker, can you please give examples of comments that you thought were inappropriate. What you heard can be read differently from different people and I need to have a clear perspective so I can make an informed decision whether or not to cancel my daughters reservation there. I would really appreciate it. Thanks. .

      • I do not want to post anything specific. Instead, I will let you generally; Meisels had very little boundaries when speaking to girls. He is a very open person and when discussing topics like “looks” and “boyfriends”, he is extremely inappropriate and not tznius-dik. I will not mention certain phrases, but if anyone would see his interaction with girls, it is FRIGHTENING. He flirts with them like a teenager. He is also very big on flattery and extremely manipulative. Again, I am a person who owes him a lot and respects the good he has done. But I refused to keep my mouth shut when he openly acts inappropriate with students INCLUDING a female staff member (I personally watched an episode with him and this female. Only one other girl was with me. We both had our mouths dropped open afterwards. His behavior was appalling and had no boundaries. Again, think of a teenager who was deprived of female interaction his whole life and now gets the chance to do it constantly.

        And AGAIN, Meisels has removed himself from the seminaries. I am telling you RIGHT NOW that you will be making the BIGGEST mistake of your life if you do not send your daughter to Pninim or wherever else. All my friends went to seminary and NONE can match the devotion, emes-dik, truly incredible staff there and the experience so many people have had there. Trust me. Do not pull her out. Please just trust me.

        Again, I am objective and only seek to tell and promote the truth to anyone who cares to listen to my advice. I am probably the most reliable source you can get. It is wise everyone reads my comments on this matter. Hatzlacha and please ask me more. I’d love to help in any way possible.

        • thank you for your comment. Please help me understand how such a wonderful environment could have allowed his misconduct to go on publicly for years with no one intervening. Were they intimidated by his status from the family of owners? We need to understand what went wrong to prevent such abuse by others in the future at Pninim and other seminaries.

        • “TruthSeeker”:

          My daughters are done with seminary, but having been through the selection experience….

          Regarding the staff at all these institutions. Who hired them? Meisels? Someone close to him? Were they unaware of what Meisels was doing? Did they know and did not act? These are questions I would have if I was contemplating sending my daughters to any of these seminaries, because it implicates whether I would want to entrust my daughters to the people now in charge.

        • is that staff member who was inappropriate with him still there?, And, how come the rest of the staff didn’t put a stop to it and protect the girls?

        • Yerachmiel and Dorron- excellent questions. (For some reason, it will not let me reply directly to your posts).

          I want to tell you something- I personally was probably the FIRST to open my mouth about Meisles and tell the staff and make a stink about it. After Meisels didn’t listen to me, I went to the next powerful staff members, two other Rabbeim. I came to them nearly crying, and, bc of my very good and trust-worthy reputation, they believed me immediately and were VERY disturbed when I told them of his inappropriate activity. I asked them, “please, I beg you, please help me do something proactive and help me FIRE this man from his own seminaries.” Other girls might have complained to each other or whispered, but I was sick of it. I wanted serious action. Not just complain to my friends.

          As far as I know, I was the first and ONLY one to try and get rid of him from his position. One of the rabbis I spoke to was in a great dilemma. He was afraid of rabbi meisles bc he had so much power. However, this rabbi was promised a higher position in the school for the up-coming year, so he promised me “I will so my very best to make sure he strays away from the school and perhaps have much less contact with the girls. But I can only try. He has a lot of power and if something doesn’t happen immediately, it will eventually come out.”

          That is why I fervently thank the Bais Din for “finishing the job I started.”

          The other Rabbi I spoke to took it very seriously as well. He said he would speak to a higher authority Rav, but I never heard anything proactive come from it.

          As for the rest of the staff- some were not around to see such inappropriate things, others innocently thought he had a different way of dealing with the girls, and others simply and honestly just NEVER KNEW. Some of the girls would talk amongst themselves of inappropriate things, but never ever did a girl go to a teacher and complain of abuse (as far as I know). The teachers think about the girls FIRST. GUARANTEED.

          Meisles hires these teachers. They are incredible. I cannot begin to tell you how so many girls come up to me and say “omg you went to Pninim?? Me and my friends were all so jealous bc everyone knows you guys have the best teachers.” I have gotten this way more than once.

          Like said before, I will FERVENTLY defend my Pninim family.

          I hope this helps anyone and I am glad to be of assistance in any way. Again, I only seek to help. Please keep the questions coming and I will answer with all of my ability and truthful knowledge.

        • Concerned mother:

          I do not know the status of this female staff member who acted inappropriate. Although, I can say it would be very sad and very wrong to judge an entire seminary based on one female staff member. She does not AT ALL represent the rest of the female staff in the school. The rest are the most pure, tznius-dik, and most extraordinary role model material individuals you will ever meet in your life. Take that literally.

          #PninimPride

        • Best case, looking for the most positive spin or speculation, is you are the assistant principal about to become principal. And you are looking to turn the school around. But somehow, I doubt that since as long as he owns the school, you will be dependent on him…and you can not possibly know what will evolve re a sale, or whether he will re-emerge. Will the beis din in Israel take him to secular court on criminal charges if he resurrects himself in a year at your semenary? Pun intended.

          Also, if you had moral scruples, you would have had him brought up on charges AND risked your parnassah to save these girls souls. He who saves a life saves the world or whatever, I am not frum. and have zero connection to your seminaries. Of one thing, I am certain, all is not as it seems from your comments. And I doubt you’re 20 years old. There is some possibility that you have pure motives, but I would not bet on it. TRUST ME. JUST TRUST ME.
          All the best.

      • concerned mother @10:43
        Sure, i am anonymous like everyone else. But I would like to give you my take on truthseeker’s posting. A lot of psychology went into those posts. She wins you over by admitting that he said disturbing things, behaved in highly disturbing ways, enough to make her try to complain about him. AND YET, she still idolizes him, basically. (a little schiz if you believe her) So, she is gaining your trust, by “admitting” that he has serious flaws, all with the intention of telling you
        “TRUST ME. DO NOT PULL HER OUT. PLEASE JUST TRUST ME”.
        I was not born yesterday. Truthseeker is not objective and not anti-measles. She is incredibly manipulative, with the purpose, the matarah of getting you to send your daughter and pay your money and so that the seminaries will not go down in financial value, in the market for a sale. Think of all of the time that this , what? 20? year old has spent online to convince you and others, that you must send your daughters, and not withdraw them. When a 20 year old (or anyone, for that matter) writes, “TRUST ME, DO NOT PULL HER OUT, PLEASE JUST TRUST ME” .
        This is no 20 year old, and the commentor is incredibly psychologically savvy as to how to manipulate. I myself would run a mile upon reading that. FRIGHTENING. ANYONE and everyone is now free to attack me, and yes, my name, chashdan indicates that I take everything with a huge huge grain of salt. So should you, concerned mother, it’s your daughter’s emotional and mental and perhaps even physical well-being at stake her. LOL. trust me. No, just think about the content of this comment. My motivation is that I am parent of two daughters in their 20’s, and also very involved in various ways (not an activist) in anti CSA child sexual abuse in the orthodox community. and in all types of Abuse of women, agunot, etc, and I am a donor to some of these organizations that aid women and children. So that is MY motivation. WHAT IS TRUTHSEEKER’S motivation??? to convince people not to pull their kids out. oh, yes, the rabbi’s seem to have suggested that parents demand a refund. don’t really know anything about that. You need to check it out.
        All the best,

        • Chashdan – Thanks you for your input and i am taking it to heart. I guarantee you that this is not a decision that I or my husband are taking lightly and will take a lot of time to make the final decision.

        • I did not want to post at all due to ppl twisting my words. You seem to have wrote a lot, but contain absolutely NO evidence of anything you speak of, where I do very much.

          Everyone has bechirah. You can choose to listen or not. I honestly do not care.

          I care a tremendous amount about the world and the people in it. You are disgusting for putting me down and calling me names when you do not even KNOW ME.

          I speak facts- Meisels has done a lot of good.

          But you cannot trust him.

          Send your daughters to Pninim- you will not regret it!

          It sounds to me like YOU have ZERO connection with the school and ZERO personal experience like I have. The next time you write something, please have something substantial to say, like I do on ALL of my posts.

          Shame on you, Chashdan. If you only knew who I was and what I am about..

        • chashdan, i think that truthseeker is simply pointing out that once meisels is removed from the seminary, then there is no more harm.
          she is saying that all the other teachers there are still the same amazing teachers that they always were and that pninim is a great seminary – as long as rabbi meisels is not involved.

        • Chashdon, ou are so smart! It’s all about the money! All these posts defending the schools are to keep the deposits. I know of no parent so far that has gotten their money back!!! These schools should immediately refund $ to all parents that have requested refunds.

          • You actually made me laugh.
            “Chashdan, you are so smart!”
            You act as if you’ve solved a puzzle. Like you’ve “caught someone” in the act.

            You sound like a child.

            I defend my school like the rest of the pninimers here: bc it is an amazing school.

            Don’t send your kid there. I have no problem. These teachers r so amazing that they will most prob get jobs elsewhere. Parnassah is certainly not the main issue.

            How disgusting of all of you to assume that I am posting on here for personal benefit and for such things like $ for the school.

            Hashem is in charge and decides ppl’s parnassah at the end of the day.

            I am telling you right now, that any mother who pulls her daughter out of pninim is making the biggest mistake of their life bc it is an AMAZING and LIFE-CHANGING school.

            You act like a child bc you think you’ve “solved my devious plans.”

            You are pathetic.
            I only came here to help.

            Sickening.

  76. Interestingly enough, this blogs subtitle is ‘combating foolishness’, which, besides the fact that it is misspelled, is completely untrue after reading this article. The amount of foolishness and uneducated assumptions in these comments is almost amusing. To see people stand up and shout facts that haven’t been proven with such strong certainty will only prove more entertaining if they are proven wrong. And if they are right, the energy and time they have spent will only be irrelevant as the proof will do all the talking required. Is this constant bashing and slandering really about protecting our children? Because we have failed to think about protecting his children. His young, innocent children, who’s names should not be dragged through the dirt because someone decided to make an allegation, which is as of yet unproven

    • Bluee14,
      Exactly according to which dictionary is “combating foolishness” misspelled?
      Next, being a victim of sexual abuse is a sad, traumatic and tragic event. Any intelligent person would malign the perp and not the victim. And afilu if some of the young ladies involved were eager and willing, sexual contact with a teacher or rabbi, or therapist, or with anyone in power is extremely unethical. an understatement.
      More important for them to remain young and innocent, and never be put in a situation where abuse has occurred, even if the perp is removed. It is inconceivable that not one other staff member knew, assuming the allegations are correct. Clearly the Chicago Beis Din does not consider these in the category of “allegations”. Be that as it may, NOT ONE OTHER STAFF MEMBER REPORTED THIS. . For all of the “concerned mothers” posting, please keep that in mind when making your decision. EVEN IF THE PLAGUE is removed.

  77. As someone who has been in one of the listed seminaries with close friends in the other 3, I feel it is my responsibility to say what I know is truth. I have a tremendous amount of respect for rabbi meisels-he has helped me and many others through many difficult times. He has never acted in an inappropriate fashion to me or anyone I know. He is a man of greatness with a heart of gold and unfortunately someone had a difficult experience dealing with him. He needs to deal with the standard challenges of a seminary and inevitably there will be people who don’t like him for that. These are often people who are unhealthy and seeking attention or revenge. It can and may very likely be a girl who got kicked out of seminary for some reason or had some sort of negative interaction and feels she needs revenge. I can confidently say that rabbi meisels is an incredible person who I still highly respect and back and whoever is spreading all this garbage is ruining thousands of girls opportunities of growing. There are many girls who he has made frum who wouldn’t have been if not for him. If someone cared that much about Judaism, they wouldn’t sexually harass girls. This is all pure lies! I fully support rabbi meisels in the incredible work he does

    • Even if all your positive statements about Meisels are true, it does not follow that he “wouldn’t sexually harass girls.” Unfortunately many miscreants conceal their evil behind the public good works. Such is the nature of sexual abusers. Not a one of them ever admitted in public what they did in private.

  78. I am one of those parents whose daughter is supposed to go to one of Miesels seminaries. Yes, we are in a bind. Whether true or not, It would be irresponsible to send my daughter to a far away country with this heavy question/allegation weighing on us and my daughter. A lot of the money has been already paid to the seminary as well as a fortune for air fair, clothing etc, as the start of seminary is only a few weeks away. I just found out about these allegations tonight from a friend in the same situation and have heard NOTHING from the seminary. This friend’s husband spoke to one of the rabbi’s from the Beis Din and was told that under no circumstances should we send our daughters no matter what. I don’t know what we are going to do. My daughter is understandably upset and we don’t have any other seminary options. My biggest pet peeve is why we have heard nothing from the seminary. Are they hoping that some of the parents do not hear and send our daughters anyway????
    BTW. I am not surprised if the Israel beis din sides with Miesles as a lot of income comes to Israel through his four seminaries.

    • Who are you going to trust? Local, respected Rabbonim, or people who have a cult-like devotion to Meisels?

    • Concerned Mother,
      Is your daughter a refined young lady? Have you been reading over the last 24 hours the type of speach used by these current and former (allegedly) students of the measles seminaries? Frequently interspersed with “screw you” type of secular vernacular vulgarities? Is this the type of behavior and speech that you would be pleased to have your daughter adopt during her Israel year? Will speech of such a nature disturb you or a future shidduch?
      Of course, this pales in significance to the possible issue of various types of sexual threats. Is it possible that none of the female teachers, the “residual staff” had any idea of what was going on? Follow the money, Parnassah is the God. what are the values of the passive other educators there? As a parent of a 24 year old who attended a one month summer seminary a few years ago, I would have been aghast if she returned with a yerida b’midot tovot. aghast.

      • I hear what you are saying and no i i. would not want my daughter speaking like that.. Nor would I want her idolizing someone to the extent that the prior students on this site idolize miesels. .It’s one thing to look up to him but is another to be so close” as they put it. It makes me uncomfortable. I was always raised that if simmering doesn’t feel right it likely isn’t. I dont know if he is guilty or not, it’s not for me to decide . The only devising i have to make is what us best for my daughter. Right now she is pretty devastated.

        • I am sad that she’s devastated. But like a kallah who breaks the engagement just before the chanunah, she will ultimately have a much happier life rather than to just go ahead and to go to a sem that, from the comments on this blog, seems far more like a cult (or a money machine) than a place for growth.

        • While you certainly have cause to be concerned, chadshan’s comment about Meisels seminary graduates should have absolutely no influence on your decision. It is clear that he knows nothing about the seminaries or the students, so he therefore has no right to make such a comment. I myself am a Pninim graduate, and I (and just about eveyone in my year) had an amazing experience, and have come out of the seminary as a changed person. The average graduate from the seminaries does not speak with vulgar language, and it is frankly ridiculous of chadshan to judge the characters of graduates based on one comment. I’m quite certain that there are graduates from every seminary in Israel who would speak in less than polite language, not just Meisels seminaries. Furthemore, I cannot claim to know if the allegations have any base in truth, but if they do, I would be shocked. I was not particularly close with Rabbi Meisels, nor do I idolize him, so it therefore cannot be said that I am in any way “mind-numbed” or “brain-washed”. Regardless of my opinion, it has been said that Rabbi Meisels has stepped down, so, assuming he has, you have absolutely no reason to worry.

    • I don’t believe the Israeli beis din has a full picture and has done a full investigation As has the Chicago beis din. Only because there are parents out there struggling with what to do I feel I must share my first hand knowledge that some of the female administrators/teachers and other frum women/mentors not even related to the schools knew of meisels late night rides and meetings with girls and did nothing to stop it. These women are also still currently harrassing and defaming some of the girls that were brave enough to come forward or may have been involved in bringing the situation to light. I would urge parents not to sent to these meisels schools even if he steps down there is no gaurantee he won’t have access. And you don’t want your daughters taught by terrible women that stood by and did nothing. I would tell your daughters to be very wary of any so called “frum” woman that thinks it’s ok for a “rabbi”‘ to take late night rides with girls, close his office door with girls, and much much worse that you don’t want to know about. The problem is more than meisels. It is a culture of cover up that is shameful. It is all about parnassa for these women administrators/teachers. This is not the “frum” education you want for your daughters. As a Baal Teshuva I am so upset and dissapointed by the horrible behavior I have seen among these so-called “bais yaakov” women. I am totally disgusted meisels and his cronies did not quietly just walk away – but made a major campaign on this blog and have in other ways intimidated the brave girls that came forward. Because of them I will forever be wary of the bais yaakov world – I am so deeply dissapointed. Meisels and his cronies have done so much harm to the victims by their ridiculous posts on this blog. The right thing to do would have been to quietly walk away and beg for forgiveness.

      • How dare you.

        You know nothing of the staff in Meisles school while I know them very well and objectively. They are incredible people who DID NOT know of the abuse. Refer to my posts and you will see.

        Do not dare speak about the staff like that. You do not even know them and you sound ignorant.

        • TruthSeeker, what is your issue? What’s with the “how dare you’s”? People are allowed to voice their opinions. Get over yourself.

          • Ew smh you are starting to gross me OUT.

            My issue is that you have no basis to nearly anything you say. You simply write what you “feel”. Even though you can technically write whatver you feel on here, you are helping NO ONE.

            Each one if my posts has had information to better inform the public on this Meisels issue and all I do is get bashed for helping others.

            You are not helping anyone. This site is meant to help, not make “assumptions and feelings” about anyone.

            You do not know me. You do not know the staff. You do not know anything.

            As yerachmiel said, only stick to LOGIC and FACTS.

            Enough with your feelings everyone.

            Get your facts straight. You nvr met any of the teachers and you nvr had an affiliation with the school.

            When you have something substantial to say, then post.

            If not, refrain.

            • I don’t know the teachers??? I have no affiliation with the schools?? Wow. You know everything, don’t you? “Ew smh ur starting to gross me out” Grow up.

        • Dear Truthseeker, actually how dare you??? As I stated, I have personally met and spoken with the women – I am not putting their names here so as not to embarrass them publicly. Problems at these seminaries run deep because of financial/parnassa and yichus issues. You may have had a different experience with these women and that’s ok. I just hope that when you grow up and have a daughter in seminary you won’t have to face the nightmare so many victims have faced. One sad thing I have learned about the “bais yaakov” world is that just like in the secular world people are not what they seem – but it is so much worse because they hide behind the “yichus” and rabbinic title and the “bais yaakov” brand name. What a disgrace!

          • Tova-

            I agree with basically all you’ve said.

            It is so sad to see the yeshivish world sink so low and care about imagine and not the well-being of innocent others.

            If you are confused as to what I stand for regarding this whole issue, please see my posts. I very much was the FIRST one to ever stand up against rabbi Meisles to protect the girls.

            (As for the staff members, I choose to leave my opinion as before).

            • You obv did not read my response back.

              Honestly, Chashdan, you are starting to become a hated poster on this blog to not just me, but many here.

              As someone else said: there is suspicion to your motives. Very very odd.

        • I spoke to two of the rabbis from the Chicago bais din and asked them, now that the Israel bais din gave their psak and Meisels stepped down, should I send my daughter? I was told as of now that Meisels still have a hand in the smeinary and that other changes need to be made as well in order to allow and encourage parents to send their girls there. Only when those changes happen will they back girls going there. And if people will still their daughters then the seminary has no reason to make the needed changes to ensure the safety of our girls. Something serious to consider!!!

  79. Blog Proprietor’s note: This comment was deleted. Not because she accused me of being disgusting and ignorant. But she called me a Nazi. That crossed a line. Just because I allow vigorous debate is not excuse for abusing my tolerance. Yerachmiel Lopin

    • Well now that the letter from Israeli beis din came out can we all go back to our lives or so we have to continue hearing all this garbage. I think it clear that there has been crazy misunderstandings in this affair but like I sadi before, we were right. Our RABBI is an amazing man and hashem has his ways. You tried to stop his schools from going on but you lost, just give it up before you make yourself look stupider. Or be my guest and continue until you have to admit to all these people how wrong you were. I can speak for all on Pninim when I said you were messing with the wrong people- when you do something against halacha it blows up in your face. I suggest next time you plan to ruin someone’s life that you think twice about why you’re really doing it. if you were doing this leshem shamayim you would have let this be dealt with privately. But its your loss now. You’re the one who looks like the pathetic idiot and were the ones who have clear proof of what lashon hara can do to a person. You’re lucky you picked a man like Rabbi Meisels because he has a heart of pure gold and will find it within him to forgive you purely out of pity. Chaval that this is what it had to come to. But we now have backing from rabanim and hundreds of students and we can clearly say that the Meisels Seminaries are safe and you should continue to send your daughters there. Or Dont – your loss not ours. But to those of you who are still coming we will be waiting to great you in to our family that you will be proud to join. As always I remain a proud Pninimer

      • Judith. Please send Prof of what the israel be is din said. I would like to see it. So i can make an informed decision whether or not to send my daughter thanks.

      • Judith, Can you please clarigy – It sounds like you work there if you will be “meeting” the girls there when they come. Are you a prior student who is defending your school rabbi or someone who is relying on the parnossah and thus, cannot really be unbiased in this issue? For us parents, we need to be really sure about what to do? I know you say he is not guilty – but its still scary how some of the girls on this site who went to your seminary are speaking of him almost as a G-d. Sounds like he did not draw a clear line in the sand about helping people with a safe distance. I am not saying i believe he is guilty – it is not my place to do so – but all the girls are saying they were very “close” to him – that raises a red flag that he doesn’t delineate clear lines with the girls doesn’t it? I have had rabonim that I respected greatly and who have made a tremendous impact on me haskofically, but I would not use the word “close” to describe my dealings wtih them. I would say i respected their opinion, they have had a good Hasboah on me, etc. – not “close”

  80. Mr. Lopin,
    It’s not so smart to play G-d. I think you should let Hashem take care of judging Rabbi Meisels. why don’t you take a break from your blog and stop posting. We are all held responsible for our words after 120 years, so maybe now is the time to think about what we are saying.

      • Oh and the Chicago Bais Din is G-d.. thanx for the update!! not saying they are wrong.. just saying that everyone should get their nose out of his business.

  81. YL,
    Your blog would garner much more respect and gravitas if you actually used your real name.
    It’s time to stop hiding behind facades.
    I have no position pro or con on this specific subject.I don’t know anyone involved

  82. BTW I just realized I have the same username as someone else.. (the one that called you a Nazi) I am not the same person.

    • Someone… you and pninim girl, you “girls” should be more careful in typing up your scripts.

  83. It seems that there are individuals still bashing the seminaries. And are referring to many students as”cult-followers.” How disturbing.

    Whoever wants an objective and truthful opinion, please search for the lengthily response from “ThruthSeeker” posted recently.

  84. For all of you who keep on insisting that this is not true, why don’t you call one of the rabbis who signed the letter and see for yourself?

    • Exactly. Thank you abc.

      Everyone backing Meisels has yet to call these respectable Rabbanim from the letter.

      Proof of your fear and insecurities that Meisels “isn’t perfect.”

  85. To all you naive people saying that Eli is innocent you guys are just clueless! I personally know Eli well and have been a friend of his for some years… And I personally know of a girl who went to one of his seminaries a few years back and with all his charisma got this girl into his famous minivan for a late night ride….. I actually told rabbis a few years back about his sickness and nothing was done…. Eli is a friend but still needs help and shouldn’t be allowed to have any contact with women especially vulnerable girls!

    • SE – What’s the problem getting a ride back in a minivan? Why did you see a need to alert rabbonim? Did something inappropriate happen during the ride?

    • Comments such as SE remind me of the following story.
      Congregant ‘A’ walks over to a fellow congregant ‘B” and says, “Did you hear that the Rabbi’s 16 year old daughter is pregnant?” To which ‘B’ reply, “But the Rabbi doesn’t have any daughters.” Without missing a beat, ‘A’ shoots back and says, “That’s up to the rabbi to prove!”
      We live in such a crazy world! Everyone on this blog is running their hands across the keyboard, pumping out comments against Mr. Miesels, Eli, or whatever you choose to call him. The Beis Din said what they had to and there is no longer any need for all of these fast-shooting writers to fan the flames. Just because something is written here doesn’t mean its true and not every derogatory thought you know about others must be committed to print.
      The Bais Din has spoken! Enough solid information has been written! If we truly care about truth, the girl’s welfare, and also conform to our moral majesty’s dictates about lashon hara – enough is enough! Everyone can read the p’sak of Bais Din and act responsibly. Close the comments. There is no reason to keep on burning the charred ashes.

    • i too, went to pninim and about 2 years ago, a girl approached me and said that there were stories about a gitl getting into meisels minivan late at night, and that he asked the student to perform certain acts for him stating “it’s ok because a man is technically allowed to have more than one wife.”
      when i first heard this story i was horrified and said that it was probably made up.
      now, i’m starting to believe it, especially with a signed letter from these gedolim.

      • Technically sepharadim are allowed more than one wife, but it is highly frowned upon in many countries.

  86. First of all you have absolutely no right to call him Eli. He is an amazing person and I have recently attended on of his seminaries. I am completely appalled by all the Lashon Hara on this sight. Dont talk unless you know completely that it is true. If you talk you are the only one who is loosing out in the long run. I hope everyone saw the new letter that was put out by the Bies Din in Bnie Brak that said that said girls should attend these schools. Rabbi Miesels is currently not involved with the schools anymore and the Bies Din is looking in to the allegations. But all you people who are talking without sources should really just be quit. You are ruining so many peoples lives by your spreading of Lashon Hara. So please stop talking.

  87. I don’t know who you are lopin but you seem to be hating on RABBI Meisels with no strong proof. This whole story sounds way too fishy and it smells the strongest from you. I’ll bet that your probably getting a nice amount of money for this from that unhealthy rich girls family. Plus I do know the Miesels family from close up. They’re an amazing family. And Rabbi Meisesls himself helps hundreds of people (in and out of seminaries) on a yearly basis. I’ve been around all his seminaries. I’ve been to Pninim and Chedvas. Than I worked in Binas and Kesser Chaya. I myself am really close to him and had lengthy conversations with him and not once have I had any sense of any sort of harassment on any level. Being that I was a madricha and someone around for girls to talk to about their personal lives. I pretty much knew any girl who had a dysfunctional home. Who was abused and with what type if abuse. And you know what funny enough its always been the girls with father issues who had crushes on Rabbi Meisels. And interpeted his kindness as a form of flirty attempt. Really he was just trying to be some good father figure they never had. If you know anything about psychology you would know that this tends to happen with people who have unsolved attachment issues. And any girl who had an issue with him who spoke to me about him (which was only two cases; again with unhealthy fatherly figures)had repeated they’re conversation with him to me. And the sentences were such that were easily misconstrued. And were befitted to the girls unhealthy schemes in her mind. Not once in my history of being in the Meisels seminaries (which has been for the past 5years) have I heard any such claim of him even as touching a girl.
    Now seeing as the Bais din had to rush this whole case anyways(like you said so yourself when you translated the pssak) I find it hard to believe that they had sufficient proof of anything. this is a very sensitive case that requires a LOT of investigation and time if you want to make such an accusation. Not just a testimony of one or two unhealthy or even delusional girls. Like who said you can relay on testimony from these few students? That’s all the proof that seems to be on the plate. So for any girls out there who are debating on going to any of the Meisels seminaries , I highly encourage you. They’re the best seminaries in the entire world and you would be so happy there. You’ll not regret going to them.

    • i heard about this case over a month ago. clearly, the bais din did not just come out with a letter out of nowhere. they have been spending a lot of time dealing with the issue at hand and have investigated this matter.
      just because he never said anything inappropriate to you, does not mean that he hasn’t said things to anyone else.

    • This is probably the most comical post I have ever read on the internet. The suggestion that Yerachmiel Lopin is being paid off by anyone to post anything. absurdities of absurdities.

    • Adina, please see the lengthily comment by TruthSeeker.

      I too went to pninim and chedvas and had an amazing reputation. I was well-respected and the farthest thing from “troubled.”

      Have you called these TREMENDOUS rabbis who signed this letter? My guess: NO. YOU HAVE NOT.

      You have ZERO right to post here.

      Call the Rabbanim and simply ask details for yourself.

      You are ignorant/ disgraceful/ and naive, sadly like many pninimers on this site.

      Shame on you for putting down these world-class Talmidei chachamim without even giving them a call.

      You’re embarrassing. Go elsewhere.

      • Truthseeker, Adina has every right to comment and stick up for the man who helped so many. Maybe you don’t like that someone doesn’t believe your lies and agree with you, but that’s too bad. Adina is a great girl and maybe you should think twice before talking down to her. Let me guess, you are one of the girls who he made “unwanted sexual contact with?”

        • wow SMH, why do you say “your lies”? to truthseeker. truthseeker is not the one who wrote that letter. the rabbis are. are you calling those rabbis liars?

          • Thank you abc

            Proof that these ppl have NVR called these Rabbonim. They do not follow Torah or Gedolim. They refuse to even call these Rabbis. They follow Meisels and no one else. Sick.

        • It is difficult not to answer back to these disgusting accusations of me.

          I have a right to my opinion. Adina does NOT. She has NOT called these respectable Rabbanim. You do not have a seichel yourself. How DARE you tell me I am lying. You are apart of the Meisels cult. No proof in anything you post, no substance. You do not respect Torah. You are disgusting. Call Rabbi Fuerst and I will be here waiting for your apology.

          Disgusting. How dare you call me a liar. If Meisles goes to jail, I have no problem revealing my name and the rabbis I spoke to will back up all my stories of when I came to them for help (see my original post).

          You are despicable. You do NOT seek Emes and DO NOT stand for Torah and Gedolim.

        • SMH, that never occurred to me. But, from a psychological orientation, IF that were true, it could really explain truthseeker’s incredible ambivalence towards him. On one hand, totally denigrating his integrity and behavior, and on the other saying how wonderful he is. Pure speculation, but it does work analytically speaking and if it is true, she must be in terrible terrible turmoil still, and I pray that she was not abused by this minuval. Yours is just a theory, just speculation, but it would explain a lot of what she has written here. And I would be forced to rewrite my own speculation re her strange postings. And even more so, if it was not so “unwanted” but ambivalent. Young girls are often attracted to figures of power in their lives. Any kind of physical relationship btw a teacher, rabbi, doctor, therapist with a patient is blatantly unethical according to the ethical standards of all of these professions. (even without bringing in age, or religion). That does not make the victim guilty. Ambivalence and being attracted to a charismatic cult like , god like “heart of gold like” “he saved my life” type figure would not be surprising. It was and always his job to have secure BOUNDARIES, not the teenage victims. They are victims, whether or not they felt lust or not. whether or not, they came on to him with make-up or not..
          I am in no way supporting your vindictiveness, SMH, don’t get me wrong. I believe the Beis Din. It is so extraordinarily unusual for a beis din to “indict” a rabbinical molester, and per Yerachmiel this beit din is of the highest integrity. There is no question in my mind that measles is an abuser of the highest order. and over how many years has he been there?
          He may have abused several dozen women over several years. Inconceivable that no teachers, no staff ever knew, which makes THEM ALL COMPLICIT. and THAT IS WHERE TRUTHSEEKERS ARGUMENT, if she is legit, falls apart. The “siluk” of the “takalah” to use the terms of the Israeli beit din is not sufficient to clean the place up, when undoubtedly other staff knew along the way what he was doing.

          and this is the reason, the fact that other staff were undoubtedly complicit in not reporting him, re some incident at some time over the years, this is the reason for a CONCERNED MOTHER NOT TO SEND HER DAUGHTER even with the “siluk” of the offender. I rest my case. Attack!!!!

          • Ok, my last comment was a little harsh. I’m not saying anything about the rabbis. I’m saying that maybe the girls were not so emesdik with their accusations. Also, in today’s society there are a lot of corrupt beis dins. I don’t know the rabbis so don’t jump down my throat on that one. I’m sticking up for Adina because she has a right to defend this man whether you like it or not. Also, can someone please define what “sexual contact” is in this case? I’m just curious.

          • Woah.

            Chill.

            Out.

            I will try my best not to post any more bc I am sick of this. Call me a liar, whatever you want.

            You have no idea who I am. So sad. It’s terrible. You are a terrible person. I’m done.

            • I only came on this site to help. To help people. To help mothers. To help anyone.

              You people disgust me.

        • SMH, everyone has a “right” to comment, but everyone also has “right” to know if there is a potential danger.
          if you’re told by authorities to evacuate an area due to a danger or threat, you listen because you know that they have the knowledge to give such warnings. when 3 distinguished rabbis come together and warn everyone to stay away from meisels due to “unwanted sexual contact”, you’d be foolish not to listen to their warnings.

          and i think you are very wrong to attack truthseeker on a public forum by assuming that she is a victim of “unwanted sexual contact.”

          in a way though, we were all victims, because we were all fooled by this man into thinking that he was a righteous person, and now have to face the ugly truth of disappointment.

          • Once again, thank you abc.

            Whoever made the assumption that I was a victim to sexual abuse with Meisles, you are twisted in the head. That is a SERIOUS assumption. Also false. How would you like it if I spread rumors about YOU that YOU were raped by someone? You are such a low-life with nothing substantial to add to this blog. Get out.

            Just proves what an unreliable/untrustworthy/ and subjective person you are.

    • Adina,
      I would just like to point out that Rabbi Meisels has played a major role in my life as well. During seminary i was able to talk to him about so many things, and he gave me the best advice in the world. He is a wise man, and can easily relate to other people and things that they’re going through. He even helped me with my marriage and I am truly greatful towards him.
      However, Rabbi Meisels is a seminary rabbi and the rabbi’s who wrote the letter are some of the top rabbi’s in the country and dayanim. Do you think that they would want to spread rumors that aren’t true?
      If you don’t believe it, give one of them a call yourself and find out the legitimacy of this letter.
      After all of your years being associated with pninim, I’m sure one thing they’ve taught you is emunas chachamim.

      • First of all thanks SMH for sticking up for me. Second of all to you semgirl and the others who questioned my emunas chachamim. I turn the tables to you. Where is your emunas chachamim.? I know I have it because like it says in the letter from the Bais din itself (that was only a massage to the klal),stating that the ציבור is not to believe what’s being said out there (meaning all this talk that’s been going on) They clearly stated that all these seminaries are chashuv seminaries with chashuv mechnchim and no one should refrain from sending there girls there. No where in the letter from the Bais din in Israel did they accuse of R. Meisesls of anything they simply stated that the owner of the seminaries has left the seminaries and that they had gotten a request from certain rabbanim to further investigate. But no where in that letter did they write that we know the accusations to be true nor did they even say what the accusations were. But of course the letter was in Hebrew so I guess many of you couldn’said really understand the letter from the Bais din in Israel. Plus the letter from the Bais din in Chicago pretty much only said that they’ve received these allegations against Rabbi Meisels, from testimony of a few students. So seeing as the schools are in Israel they are sending the case to Israel. There was no confirmation for those allegations. To boil things down both Bais dins said there needs to be further investigation and no one has confirmed those allegations. At least not chashuv rabbonim that we hold of. (People who are posting disgusting things about R. Meisesls on the internet are no considered daas Torah.) I’ve in fact asked my own daas Torah what to believe in this situation and they have said that you cannot believe what goes on on the internet. So until proven otherwise by the Bais din of Israel, R. Meisels is innocent in my eyes. And according to my daas Torah as well. So I don’t know about you guys out there, talking down about R. Meisels, what type of daas Torah your talking to, or if at all you’ve even spoken to your rabaaim about what your claiming to be true,but I highly doubt that a proper daas Torah will allow such despicable things to be said about another yid with no proof. In fact not only do I doubt your legitimacy of your words, I was also told by my daas Torah that it is assur to believe what’s being said out here. Now that sounds to me a little bit more to fit the guidelines of hilchos lashon hara, but it would be interesting to see if any rabaaim have actually given a heter to say what’s being said here. Cuz I highly doubt it. So where does your daas Torah stand?

        • Adina.

          Again.

          You have no right to post here.

          Rabbi Meisles has confessed his actions. I called rabbi Fuerst. Call if you want. But you wouldn’t. You are too afraid.

          Meisles has confessed. You have zero defense.

          And you are disgusting for putting the bias din of Chicago as “unreliable rabbis.”

        • you are only quoting the israel beis din which is apparantly too scared of meisels or doesn’t take this matter with enough seriousness.

          and it says “students”, not a “few” students. it can be much more than a few.

          if you don’t believe it from the internet, call rabbi feurst, rabbi shwartz or rabbi cohen.

          if you still do not want to believe it, you are only hurting yourself and putting yourself in danger.

    • Do you feel the same way now that it’s public information that Mr. Meisels had relations with some of the girls? What do you say now?

      • TruthSeeker: I’ve been holding myself back, but really, this has gone on long enough. What gives you the right to dictate who can post and who can’t? Why do you have the right and she doesn’t? Oh wait, that’s right…you DON’T have the right.

        • You are a waste of space on this blog if you choose to simply post your “feelings” on the topic.

          If you really care to help ppl and make a difference in the world, you would come here something substantial to say. Some evidence. Something useful for all the readers. I have done research and have had first hand experience with Meisles.

          THAT is what makes me useful and your comments NOT. Sorry to he so harsh, but honestly, (in my opinion) everyone should refrain posting unless you have something worthwhile to say that can help the public.

          Like ME, when I called rabbi Fuerst myself and I announced to everyone exactly what he told me: that Meisels confessed to his actions to the Bais Din.

        • Wow. Your ego is astounding and your words disgusting. You have no less right then anyone else to post anything, and unless you are the owner of the blog, no right to tell people what they are and aren’t allowed to do. And at this point, the only way I’d believe the words your’e writing was if you actually recorded your conversation with him and posted it on this blog. Because otherwise you’re full of hot air.

          • Believe what you want 🙂

            I have been very involved in this blog for the past 48 hours.

            I can honestly say that I do not care less of ppl believe me by now or not.

            HKB”H will judge truthfully at the end of the day.

            This blog makes no difference to my life. Everyone believe or don’t believe what you want.

            Bye for now 🙂

    • To Adina Cohen

      There have been a number of comments on this blog from people who spoke to members of the Special Bais Din based in Chicago. Here are some of them:

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90136
      Aimee says: – 07/11/2014 at 2:18 pm
      So I did call Rabbi Fuerst and he confirmed it’s not a forgery. So everyone please stop doubting the authenticity. He was however very tight lipped about specifics – just said to ask for a refund and not to send our daughter….

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90168
      S. M. says: – 07/11/2014 at 4:57 pm
      My daughter was supposed to go to one of his seminaries next month. I confirmed the veracity of this letter with Rabbi Cohen myself, and my friend was informed by Rabbi Fuerst that it is a legitimate letter. He also told her that it is asur to send a girl to one of those seminaries if Rabbi Meisels is involved….

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90174
      Joseph says: – 07/11/2014 at 5:44 pm
      NATMAN,
      ABSOLUTE LIE! I spoke to Rav Shmuel Fuerst myself two hours ago and he said it is 100% true, valid, and authentic. He also said the Beis Din’s letter was quite “nice” to the creep Meisels and they could have written A LOT more. He also said that what Meisels did will destroy seminaries in Eretz Yisroel because it creates a “kol” that all Rabbeim are creeps like him. Some obviously are, but the majority thankfully are not. Charlatans like Meisels and all the others who pick on the meek and prey on the defenseless need to be ousted and dealt with swiftly and a lot sooner. More power to you Yerachmiel, keep up your holy work, G-d Bless : )

  88. Although I personally did not have a relationship with Rabbi Meisels, I have to say he is an awesome rabbi. A lot of the girls that went to his school had major issues as well as problems with their fathers. He had pity on them and reached out to them. These girls became OBSESSED with him. It made me nauseous. I feel that the girls probably wanted something more from him and when they realized they couldn’t get it, they decided to ruin him not caring who they hurt along the way. Or could be they misinterpreted his kindness to what they rally wanted. Why is this bais din so quick to believe her? Why are they out to get him? Do they not like Rabbi Meisels for other reasons? How much money are they making off of this?
    Don’t get me wrong, if this is true then he should pay (HE should pay. Not his family.), but how terrible would it be if these girls are lying or blowing things up?
    Also, he agreed to step down, so why did this have to become public? Why is it “assur” to send your kids to the schools? These schools saved a lot of girls lives including myself.

  89. SE
    “Eli is a friend”??
    With friends like you who need enemies?
    I am actually a close friend of Eli’s for the last 15 Years, and i hope you aren’t also a friend (or even an associate of mine)!
    I have been with him in many different situations (among friends, family, Shabbos meals, at simchos etc.) and I have never witnessed anything in his behavior that would even be able to be construed as even the slightest bit “inappropriate”. This whole “charisma”, “brain-washing”, “cult” nonsense is ridiculous. He is non of the above. Just a wonderful friend, father, & husband, who also happens to be an excellent and dedicated mechanech. All this bashing by people who don’t know him, & don’t have all the details (which i don’t have either) is actually quite disturbing. I can tell you of at least 2 other stories in the last couple of years where an educator was accused and eviscerated on these blogs and so-called (and self-promoting ANONYMOUS) saviors of Klal Yisroel who turned out to be COMPLETELY INNOCENT. The stories in both cases where entirely fabricated by the student for attention and to get revenge for being punished. BTW in neither case did i see any posts declaring these destroyed people innocent or apologizing for the harm done. At most the original post and comments are taken down. But trust me the damage is done and pretty much not repairable.) So Mr. Lopin, Chashdan, Triangle, etc. take a deep look into your hearts and hope you are really doing all this L’shem Shamayim, cuz the all fires of Hell ain’t nothing compared to what you will need to get kaporoh for what you have been doing these last couple of days.

    • Shawn, (is that a Yiddische name?)),
      Yes, first of all please tell us about at least two stories in last couple of years, as you relate above that you can do, of innocent rabbis eviscerated. In fact, I would pay for each additional one that you can summon up from your memory bank, no joke. We can have some lawyer or rabbi put the money in escrow, pending your accurate AND verifiable documentation of each with presentation of relevant cases.
      He who saves a life, saves the world. i am not frum. think that is the quote. Not a gambler, but i call you, and raise you. two free accurate stories with valid documentation, and after that, I pay up for each additional. How does that grab you
      The three of us whom you cite (and others) have been firm believers in the findings of the special Chicago beis din for sexual abusers. a major chet. i am trembling in my boots. There are hardly any precedents. Yerachmiel will know for sure. I myself only got involved in these issues after the Manis Freedman fiasco of 1.5 years ago.
      AND WHY IS IT THAT EVERY MEASLES SUPPORTER TALKS ABOUT THE FIRES OF HELL, destroying those who believe in the Chicago beis din?? You believe in the “heart of gold measles”, ‘THE SIN OF THE GOLDEN CALF”. EVERY SINGLE EXPLETIVE ONE OF YOU, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. IS THIS WHAT HE TAUGHT YOU? A MAJOR JEWISH CONCEPT. And chas v’chalilah, one of the victims of unwanted physical contact were to reveal, to come forward, who would believe a mixed-up teenager, particulsarly if so mixed-up that her best option of the 4 semenaries was pnimin. no one would believe her against the “golden calf” worth millions of dollars if not more…
      So i call you and raise you.. You’re up at the bat Shawn.

  90. I understand that the Binas seminary is for the elite girls and they only take the top girls. Keser Chaya also takes in good girls but less academic and Penimim is for troubled girls is that correct?

    • Where’d you get that idea? The comments on a random blog? You judged from people’s texts, if you were really interested in finding out who these seminaries are for, why don’t you look them up somewhere else cuz you sure as hell ain’t gonna get straight answers of this retarded sight! Seriously it goes from being “ltoeles” to completely bashing random girls, girls who may not even know about this site or heard this accusation, because they went to a specific seminary so now they’re “elite” “less academic” and “troubled”, guilty by association. If it’s “ltoeles” the only thing to talk about is rabbi Meisles accusation from beis din not anybody else, it’s pure loshon hara, and by the look of it people are buying into it and not only bashing the seminaries for no reason (especially since the Israeli beis din is saying you could go) but bashing random girls who probably never read this blog, is it “ltoeles” that assuming all the hundreds of girls from the seminaries are a certain type and could possibly ruin shidduchim, I don’t think the beis din intended that

    • Please, don’t draw conclusion based on comments on a blog, many of which are written by people who have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. Binas is more to the right and academic, not ‘elite’, it accepts girls who are suited to the seminary, just like any other. Kesser Chaya is less academic (that part you got right). Pninim is more chilled and less academic. That’s all there is to it. The fact that Pninim attracts more troubled girls than the others is simply because it is a more relaxed, open environment, with a staff that is more involved with the girls. Countless Pninim girls are not in any way troubled or problematic.

      • I am a proud Pninimer/chedvas student who was and is no way troubled or rebellious. Never have I been either. I am in fact quite the extreme opposite. So, B”H, so I can attest to this thanks.

  91. wow you really missed the point.
    a young girl should not be taken advantage of like that

    • Just a point of fact, (of course he is ashkenazic), DON’T be so quick to jump down someone’s throat. and a minuval bein minuvalim. I think we are on the same side of the this issue, v’od aich.
      I should have clarified, (just for informational value), I will be more cautious in the future….OK? And you too, did you really believe that someone on this comment board was advocating bigamy?? just a point of fact. also indicating that our minuval is a liar or ignorany, unlikely.

    • As I understand it (and please correct me), his taking a second “wife” would violate the takkanah of Rabbeinu Gershom, but it could still be a valid kiddushin, meaning the poor girl arguably needs a get if she’s to marry legitimately, lest her children be mamzerim, and I doubt that he passed out gittin to his conquests. I trust a posek would rule that under the circumstances there was no kiddushin and no get required, but wouldn’t a careful young woman want such a psak before marrying? This would seem to add another dimension to this sordid mess.

      • Kevin, I know this comment was only for the good of the girls possibly involved.

        But. Please stop. I beg you. NO ONE knows the details from the Bais Din. This is not to spread anything that could possibly be untrue with rumors in his minivan. What IS true is that Meisels crossed major boundaries in serious ways.

        To everyone- please prevent from posting ANY comments which you do not know happened 100%, and please do not add to those “unsure” comments by girls possibly needing a get.

        This site is meant for Truth only. Hense the name I choose to go by- TruthSeeker.

        • Truth Seeker, I certainly had no intention of further harming any victim. I was raising a general question, but on consideration, you are right, it was unnecessary and out of place here. YL, please remove my comment.

  92. just to clarify, i only heard this rumor about him being in his car with a student. i do not know if it is true.
    still, rumors dont pop up out of nowhere, and when there’s smoke, there is fire.

  93. however, i do know that he has meetings with girls late at night when it is inappropriate to meet with them. i know of girls who have had private meetings with him at 2am, which is extremely inappropriate and uncomfortable to think about.
    even an amazing person as rabbi meisels can slip up when getting too comfortable with girls. a rabbi teaching in a girls seminary has to make extra boundaries for himself.
    one rabbi used to teach in pninim on the condition that his wife be present in the building. i thought it was a bit extreme, but now i realize that he was taking an extra precaution

  94. I think u are a total disgrace to the Jewish community! First of all it has NOT been proven! Second of all and let’s say it is, who do YOU think u are to go around publicizing it?! U could ruin someone whole life! And I can’t imagine the shame you’ll feel when u realize the crime you’ve done! And besides the point I find it quite ironic that your always the first one publicizing this specific topic… Either you have some major issues or u have a jealousy problem but from my point of view your the pervert!
    Rabbi miseles was my principal and I am 100% sure he is innocent I highly recommend u get yourself some help!

    • Goodness, now someone is called a pervert because they accuse someone else. I understand claiming they are wrong. Even there you are confusing issues. You claim it is wrong to ruin someone’s reputation. You are right if the accusations are maliciously false. You are wrong if the allegations are true and consequential. But in no way do such allegations make the accuser a pervert unless you can establish some perverse sexual desire or motivation. Please, Meisels groupies, stick to logic. I hope your experience with him gave you some logical skills and not just uncritical love of a charismatic man.

    • Who’s the disgrace, Betty? Mr. Meisels may have been your principal, but he’s still an animal. That much has finally been made public. What happened to you being “100% sure”?

  95. Knowing these 3 dayanim, knowing that they are extremely cautious before putting someone’s reputation, life, family and relatives on the line – that this was not a case of 1 or 2 girls that was “seized upon” and “acted upon” quickly and hastily. There were many, many meetings that took please all over the country and not just in Chicago. They met with this man as well. It is possible that EM confessed to Rabbi Fuerst in a very private meeting.

  96. There is something disturbing about all the Meisels groupie paeans of praise. Too many of them use the same word “amazing.” That is good and well if it is not just emotion but paired with some statement of content. Yet I have not seen any indications of content learned and skills acquired. No one claims to have gotten better at Hebrew grammar, or tanach or tefilah, or halachah. Just, whoopie doo, it was amazing.

    Of course a good relationship to staff is a necessary part of education. But a relationship is not a substitute for education.

    So, Meisels groupies, please enlighten us on what you learned besides the fact that you had an amazing time.

    • No offense, but only a man could say that. Seminary is NOT meant to be yeshiva OR 13th Grade. It’s meant to be a time to grow and reflect. No, I didn’t go to Pninim so my comment has nothing at all to do with this fiasco. But the focus of seminary should not be how much “education” has been acquired.

    • im not trying to prove his innocence, because i believe that EM is guilty.
      but it happens to be that he taught me a lot about the power of tefilah, helped me connect to prayer at a time when it had no meaning to be, and taught me a lot about halacha.

      he is a talented and wise person, and it is unfortunate that he succumbed to his desires and fell too such a low level.

      the torah that i learned from him and from his seminary are real and i can carry that with me forever. but from this point on, he is definitely not my rabbi anymore and i’m not interested in continuing a relationship with him – even though nothing inappropriate ever happened between us.

      • abc,
        aizeh chaval aizeh chaval, what a pity, that a man, described by many as an excellent educator, having the potential to be an excellent educator succumbed to his basest desires, at the expense of the souls of these young b’not yisrael. NEVER A MECHANECH. So he turned it on its head, and caused pain and trauma to some percentage of his students. Even a dozen a year, how old is he, could he keep that up and maintain his religious obligation l’fi halachah to “satisfy” his wife , as well????
        aizeh chaval. and due to money and power, who was there to stop him?? The staff, “the wonderful female teachers and em bayit” and whoever, needed the parnassah, perhaps some were even without a baal to provide parnassah, either due to disbelief in the concept (i.e. hashem wants them to study in kollel yom v’laylah to protect medinat yisrael from its enemies) or perhaps some single mothers, or whatever. Life in Israel is difficult. it would take a very special type of neshama, someone like Yerachmiel Lopin, to go after the truth at whatever cost, and at his own expense, and agav, he doesn’t even have a “gelt box” for donations as does the proprietor of FM , not that there is anything wrong with that. So measles basically chose his victims judiciously, the ones least likely to report him, and/or, least likely to be believed. This is so tragic, and, not clear how many of the posters are one and the same, but, lo chashuv, clearly some % of his students worshipped him. a manipulator par excellance.
        I feel like crying for those poor neshamot, the girls,. who he abused,. and even more those who at the time thought they wanted it, for they will blame themselves, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE FAULTLESS. IT is the moral obligation of the person in power not to sexually exploit those over whom he has power.
        I am not going to give in to the cult chant of ‘may he burn in hell” for who the heck knows what the after life will bring.

        • i’m not quite sure if it was clear or not, but i am on the same page as you, just want to make that clear. i think it is very devestating that these events have transpired

    • Mr. Lopin, Not every seminary is designed to teach language, halacha, and tanach. Many seminaries cater to girls who are interested in expanding upon their knowledge in those areas, but Pninim is not one of them. Though I cannot speak for his other seminaries, Pninim is more focused on hashkafah, love of judaism, tefila, ect. Even if it was focused on the topics you mentioned, how would you know? Your original post is not focused on what was taught in Meisels seminaries, so why would people be writing about it, anyway? I learned many, many things during my time in Pninim, but writing it all down here would take hours, which is most certainly the reason why, as you said, you ‘have not seen any indications of content learned and skills acquired.’
      Please, Mr. Lopin, this is your blog and you have a right to post what you want, but I find your comments in this particular post to be upsetting, it was a very presumptuous thing to say, and entirely irrelevant besides.

      • I feel that barring the unexpected this topic has really run its course – and i do not have the privelege of seeing exactly what you responded to. I am guardedly optomistic that while placing HASKAFAH as the first goal of the school – you realize the magnitude of the problem and the monumental breach of trust.

        That said, i heart goes out to his family and the many talmidot who had the rug pulled out from under them. My fervent hope is that his family recovers and that the talmidot are able to recover and both gain and maintain proper perspective.

      • Let me rephrase my criticism, in light of some valid points you made.

        In reading the comments by the Meisels fans, I see no indication of the learning or character that should have been developed there. Instead I see shrill, swarming, adulated talmidot besotted with the person more than Yiddishkeit.

        • Yerachmiel, I am assuming you’ve been reading my posts or at least the important ones.

          I am a graduate of pninim and chedvas and me and my very close friends came out normal, amazing, un-brainwashed people.

          We truly owe pninim so so much. Fact. We grew as people in Yiddishkeit, appreciation for A Torahdig life, tznius, hashkafa, and much much more.

          I am in no way sticking up for the pninimers who stick up for the monster Meisles. I wish not to be associated with them.

  97. It has come to many intelligent people’s mind that the praise lauded upon EM is a little over the top – ‘he saved my life.’ “He was amazin.’ I have spoken with quite a few students who either attended Pninim or had him as a teacher in another one of his schools. It appeared to this intelligent woman that he did have “favorites” at Pninim. Or to another intelligent woman who had him as an instructor that he regarded himself as “above the law” or in “collusion with Hashem.” It is very hard for us as Orthodox Jews who strive on bitachon and dam l’kaf z’chus to read your blog and “believe” that it is true. I agree that it was action of the Chicago Beis Din that brought this matter to light. I also agree that it is your blogsight that forced the Israeli Beis Din’s “hand.” Predators, molestors and pedophiles unfortunately exist in our communities. Until recent years Beis Din’s across the world have had to confront this issue. I agree that it is shrouded in much secrecy. I feel your blogsight might even give courage to some victim to speak up. But alas, looking at some of these postings, it is shocking how much some are willing to dam l’kaf z’chus EM but vilify the victims as bitter, angry, spoiled rich girls. Unfortunately, this has taken place in Israel and out of reach of the American Judicial system. I believe that even if EM is removed, the Chicago Beis Din is supporting their original contention that no one send their daughters to any of the schools. Your excellent synopsis of the translation of the Israeli Beis Din is frightening. Let us keep our American daughters safe and whole. They deserve that!

  98. The saddest thing is, had he been witnessed offering his students candy made with cholov stam or buying himself a cup of coffee from an eatery that wasn’t under supervision , he would be vilified and drummed out of the seminary business without a moment’s hesitation.

  99. Truthseeker, it’s funny how you accuse me of spreading rumors. Who here is spreading rumors?? No one here even knows your name. Grow up. Get out? Make me.

    • Lol there is something very off with you…re-read my posts and you can see that we both agree on the guilty charges of Meisles…however, you seem to think that I am encouraging the seminaries to help them with money?

      I’m done with the bashing. I am simply confused here.

      I have said what I needed to say to help everyone. If anyone has any more REAL questions (which are not accusing- simply you want to find out more info from a reliable source), I encourage you to ask me.

      Thanks everyone.
      Have a good night 🙂

      • TruthSeeker,
        I wish you the best. your posts were, ad ko, very ambivalent and confusing and given to various interpretations. I would prefer to think the best of you, and if chas v’shalom some of your ambivalence was due to bad experiences, I hope that you can get the chazir measles to pay for therapy. yes, of course he is guilty, one does not need to have been there to figure that out.
        And Yerachmiel Lopin is of the highest moral integrity that anyone will find anywhere, on or off the net.. that and the psak of the specialized sex abuse Chicago beit din, caused me to be 99% certain of measles guilt.
        I wish you good health. and hope, that you can find help, if you need it.
        Did you just call the Rabbonim paam rishona late tonight? yourself? had you not been expounding that everyone should call before forming an opinion.? I admit to being confounded. All the best.
        and to all of the speculators, i have no connection , never had a connection , never heard of these seminaries before, i do have a daughter who spent one summer month at a seminary, not sure where, name, etc. she said she was the least dos there. and that, in the final analysis, it was the wrong place for her. dos means frum, slicha. that was 4 years ago or so. She did not share details with me. was i think a scholarship due to doing some program at university., In any case , i paid nothing, hence do not even know the name. i do know that they actually took her to visit another seminary, that they thought might be more to her liking were she to wish to return for a longer period of time, the following year.. She opted out, particularly when she found out from misrad hapnim that she was categorized as toshevet chozeret, lamrot having been born in US to an American mother. that is my story.
        i support CSA victims, Agunot, Dorot, others. I have zero ulterior motives other than locking up all abusers of any faith, and something similar with m’sarvei gerushim, causing untold suffering to agunot. short of epstein style persuasion, to be sure.
        I think that on this topic, i am posted out, as well. Good health to all.

        • Chashdan- I’m not sure what to say. At the end of the day we are all on the same side. Thank you for the good wishes and I wish you the same.

          (But please stop mentioning me and therapy. I don’t rlly appreciate it. I am very normal and B”H have always been extremely stable. In the case of Mr.Meisles, he is a scumbag and there will be emotional turmoil to deal with for anyone who had him teaching in front of their classroom. Thank you for your concern. Indeed, he should be paying the high fees of therapy for many many girls who’s worlds are crashing down now that they discovered he is not a g-d. As for me, I always suspected him).

          There is truly a special place in hell for him.

        • I also knew Meisles was guilty from the beginning. Please see my original first post. I simply wanted anyone who defended Meisels to first call the Bais Din bc they were automatically standing up for Meisles and not these huge Rebbeim who had clear-cut proof.

          I finally got a hold of Rabbi Fuerst tonight and he did not hold back information from me. He was very straight forward in Meisles’ despicable actions.

          As for the partners, again Hatzlacha. I only wish the best for your daughters. Whether they go to pninim or not, they will surly grow in Eretz Yisroel wherever they go 🙂

          And isn’t that the goal here?

          🙂

  100. OKAY
    I just re-read some posts.
    I realized where things went astray and ppl starting bashing me for no reason after I tried to simply help people.

    Everyone thinks I am a pninim staff member “under cover” and I want money for the school.

    This is laughable. If no one trusts me yet, that is very sad.

    So for all of you suspicious and angry individuals out there, TruthSeeker says IF THERE IS A REFUND POLICY TO HAVE PARENTS GET THEIR $ BACK, THEN THEY DESERVE A FULL REFUND FROM PNINIM NOW!!!

    I mean that very seriously. Seminary is a heavy cost. I completely understand. I do not agree with pulling the girls out, but if any parent wishes to do so then they deserve their money back!

    I hope this clears up my name, which a few individuals (you know who you are) so nastily tainted for no reason and called me a liar and worse.

    I hope the questions keep coming, bc, once again, I the most reliable and trustworthy source you’ll get.

    Good night everyone and Hatzlacha to all the girls and parents! 🙂

    • OMG
      MONSTER

      I just got off the phone with rabbi fuerst.

      Meisles CONFESSED to the bias din that he had sexual relations with the students!!!!

      SICK MONSTER.

      NO ONE CAN DEFEND MEISELS NOW!!!

      • Those of us who know the Rabbonim have been saying this since the beginning. It’s so sad that after hundreds and hundreds of comments, the truth finally gets through. Those of use who have been defending the Chicago Bais Din take no pleasure in simply being right. Only that endlessly defending a monster made no sense when three Rabbonim of immense stature determined the way they did. I can only hope that you find peace knowing that there are several wonderful Rabbonim out there. I hope that you can find them.

        • Triangle, thank you. Meisles taught me in seminary and this was a big blow even though I suspected and complained about him all along.

          I have ALWAYS believed in the bias din and thought he was guilty.

          I simply needed to hear it from Rabbi Fuerst himself.

          A pig.

          An animal.

          Adina, let’s see you defend your poor Meisles now..

  101. Call up rabbi fuerst

    meisels admitted everything to the beis din

    he will rot in hell with all the teachers who protected him

    • There are abusers out there. But the defense of this one, particularly by his students who found him to be so “AMAZING” as well as his staff, who continue to besmirch the victims, both here and via other forms of texting and communication, are simply beyond comprehension. I agree that the defenders will rot, as well. Seems they were caught up in this cult of personality, as well.

    • Just to point out Pninim was his main seminary and longest running seminary. Perhaps it was a girl from one of the other schools and that’s why they aren’t defending him because they know who it is while the Pninim girls are shocked and confused and don’t understand how it could have happened in their seminary because they can’t think of anyone who would do this with him. I actually do believe it wasn’t a Pninim girl, I went to Pninim and while I’m not gonna argue whether he did it or not, I don’t think a seminary that’s been open for about 15 years can hide such a thing until now, there are no secrets I’m dorm life as I’m sure people from other seminaries can also agree, that leads me to believe it was a girl from one of the newer seminaries, and one other thing the beis din never accused any of the teachers and until they look into it, I have to give the benefit of the dought for them, and I wanna also add I had a lovely time in Pninim and it had nothing to do with rabbi Meisles, I never really spoke to him becuase I am not the type the get close with rabbis, and becuase he didn’t have an ounce of confidentiality

      • I disagree. Just because the school was around for fifteen years, does not mean that this did not start happening fifteen years ago in Pninim. It takes years for victims to come forward. Wake up, there are secrets in dorm life. Not everyone knows everything about everyone. It seems like everyone in Pninim is so brainwashed in protecting Meisels, instead of their fellow sisters.

  102. What exactly is the purpose of this blog? To expose supposed sexual offenders? Oh, I see. And you say you do this for free and gain no money from it? Ok, I understand. So please explain to me why you keep the comments section open. I really want to know. You’ve done your duty – you’ve dragged someone and their family’s name through the mud, spat on their faces and buried them alive. Why are you giving people a free for all opportunity to fester in a pit of lashon hara exactly? The purpose of exposing people and warning them is just that. It’s not to have an open forum where people can spread vicious lies, rumors, and say, I knew it all along. Do you even SEE the absolute sinas chinam that is being spread on your page? The disgusting ways that people are speaking to ONE ANOTHER, let alone how they are speaking about someone else? It’s shiva asar b’tamuz! The beginning of the three weeks! The beis hamikdash was destroyed because of sinas chinam, and that’s something we’re supposed to be working on. Instead you have allowed almost 500 comments of disgusting language, hatred and evil be published. You should be ashamed of yourself that you’re letting this go on with no end in sight. You’ve made your point. You’ve dragged him, his children and his wife through the mud. If the Rabbanim would see what you are allowing, those ”talmidei chachaim” that you refuse to name that endorse your site, would take their endorsement back so fast your head would spin. It almost seems like you seek these kinds of stories out JUST to get a rise out of people and allow them to speak disgustingly, freely, and without thinking about the consequences of their words, both for themselves and for the people they are implicating, whether they deserve it or not. It is people like you and places like this that drive home the point even further why mashiach isn’t here, why there is so much tza’ar in the world, and makes me embarrassed that for those who don’t know any better, that all frum Jews speak so horrifyingly about one another. Every single one of you are running your mouths off like you have a window into the rooms of the batei din, of his office, of his car, and of the schools. There is not ONE of you on this blog that has concrete proof. Not one of you. Not one of you will name a name from who you heard a story/rumor from, not one of will say who told you it’s 100% true. At this point, I honestly do not believe any of the people who have posted that they’ve spoken to the Beis Din. Not one of you. Every single one of you are hiding behind your usernames and computers. Would you speak this way to the person sitting next to you in shul? Would you be so quick to slander someone else so viciously when you’re speaking to someone face to face? Or is it just because you’re hiding behind a computer screen that you’re more then happy to commit sins of lashon hara? Even you, Mr Lopin. Would you be willing to say every single comment that you have posted here, word for word, in a discussion with your seatmate in shul? At work? To the rabbanim on the beis din?

    …….Didn’t think so.

    Perhaps you should all take a step back from the computer instead of fanning the flames that are keeping Mashiach away, and remember why we are about to enter these three weeks of mourning.

    • I for one, would testify in any court, secular or religious, with full name. But I have only commented on logical things, i do not have direct knowledge, but i would bet my life on anything of which Lopin is certain of. ad k’dai kach is his integrity. you will not find that anywhere else, (almost) in the Jewish world. And when did a Beit Din, not LOL bias din, very funny some have made typos, but that is what most are “bias din” follow the money, , many here, i have noticed, are deficient in both English and Hebrew, so if you get this, you are in a minority.
      There are a very few rabbis out there who impress me. Lord Jonathan Sacks is one, just recently started reading his Drashot. me, the “apikorus”, read Lord Sacks, weekly and stuff meisel somewhere where he cannot harm b’not yisrael. put him away someplace. also YY Jacobson and even his brother Simon write incredibly brilliant stuff. if you are not a chabad hater, I support chabad, CSA victims, agunot victims, and the elderly, (Dorot). .

    • It is the measles of the world, the abusers of innocent girls who are keeping messhiach away,
      you are deluded. Those fighting to protect our children will be welcomed into olam hagan, your measles will have to reincarnate more than 613 times to purify his soul. yes, 612. lets give him a break, think of all the young girls he can molest in each and every reincarnation. ….moron.

      • If you notice, I neither confirmed nor denied anything to do with the actual story that has been exposed and everything to do with the way people on this blog,the blog owner included, are speaking to each other. The only thing that I said what this his wife and children have been dragged through the mud enough

        Instead of insulting you, which most of the commentators on this blog seem want to do, I am simply going to say that your post is a prime example of the exact hatred I was referring to. The point has been made. The letters from the batei din have been posted. There is no excuse at ALL for anyone to be allowed to post comments. Not one. Your comments are not aiding in the getting the story more or less publicized. The only thing they are accomplishing is allowed more hatred into the world.

        Kudos for providing the only actual proof on this blog.

        • I’m sorry but I have to agree.

          Chashdan, your comments have been very attacking since you fist came to this blog and have helped no one.

          I will ask you again to refrain from posting unless it is something truly substantial that can help people proactively regarding the Meisles topic.

        • someone somewhere, no one has said anything about his innocent wife an children. the only one who dragged them into this mess is meisels himself.

      • Really? Rabbi Feurst has actually endorsed this blog?? I’d like to see that in writing, with his signature on it saying that he’s read the blog and the comments on here.

        • He read the blog. Who cares about his signature? What matters is that now everyone knows that the monster Meisels admitted to everything, and that people will think twice before sending their daughters to his sems.

    • You, someone somewhere are a prime example of why this needs to go on. Or should I just call you by your real name, Meisels? You continue to deny even after facts are known. Facts that have been revealed by the Beis Din that investigated. They have been open and available and have answered questions from the public. They knew that morons like you and your employees would eventually come here and try to shut down the conversation with your loud and windy pronouncements. But you can’t.

      And, PS, I don’t need concrete proof. I have emunas chachomim in the Beis Din. All you have is the memories of young nineteen year olds that you’ll no longer have access to.

      • Your comments are laughable and show that you didn’t even read anything written there. In no way did I confirm or deny anything. No, I commented on the way that everyone HERE is writing. Perhaps you should try reading it again, slowly? Would you like a dictionary perhaps? And though you will not believe me, because you clearly believe what you want, I have not one thing to do with the Meisels family, the seminaries, the batei din…nothing. I am coming from the place of a Jew being disgusted at the sinas chinam that other Jews are so gleefully displaying, and shaking my head without wondering why am yisrael is in the state it is currently in. But believe what you will, and call me what you want. I just hope that your friends have seen the pure hatred that exists in you and realize that you are not who you seem. Yes, you. You are no saint with the way that you are acting. You think you are so busy protecting the world, yet instead you are assisting in bringing it down. Perhaps you should look in the mirror. And perhaps if I write it in capslock, you’ll understand: I AM IN NO WAY RELATED TO THIS STORY.

  103. when a girl would bend down to fix his car and adjust her skirt, he would say there is no need to do that.
    when told that girls put on makeup for him, he smiles and asks, “for the other rebbeim too?”
    when told yes, he would say, “but for me more?”
    would drive back girls to the seminary at 2 am.
    would meet with them in his office, at 2 am.
    would compliment girls left and right on their physical beauty.
    would discuss in detail their personal relationships with men. would ask “those” questions.
    i am not mad at the person. i am mad at the events happening. we all pray that evil be eradicated from the world immediately. how can one not lose sleep at the very thought that when these young ladies are there to grow in ruchnius, they instead are taken on a path which disrupts the core of their essence? and we ask eicha yashva badad? ill tell you why yerushalim is empty…harodeif achar arayos….you know how it ends….
    wake me up from this nightmare

    • Dear Tzaros. So sorry for the pain and disappointment you went thru. May Hashem bless you with all good things and much happiness. Thank you for sharing your experience. Your honestly will certainly help protect others.

      • Tzaros

        Perhaps we have some connection- all the things you have posted of Meisles I have either experienced from him or heard from a close friend.

        I didn’t want to post these examples bc I choose to be more private, but now that it’s out, I confirm everything you wrote to be 100% accurate bc it has happened to me.

        If you can private message me, I’m sure we went to seminary together the same year :). (If you are claiming to be a Pninimer)

        My ears are open and I am here to support you.

        Love, TruthSeeker

      • thank you. i feel as though my word doesn’t go very far. no one individual can make a storm with their story. hopefully all of his institutions will be closed down. if not, im sure chicago will decide to publicize the facts, and make a stink about it. so my job is done here. tova, what is your relation to the story?

        • and thank you truthseeker, i wish you much peace of mind. i hope the winds of change will sweep you away from the anarchy this has caused.

  104. There is nothing more that anyone here needs to be providing. All you are asking for is more fuel for your gossip. The story has broken, the letters posted, people will think what they want. There is nothing more that needs to be posted other then to satisfy your hunger for gossip. The comments section of this blog should be CLOSED, no more comments should allowed to be posted on ANY of the stories on this blog at all. If there is really no money in it for you, Mr Lopin, then you should have no problem with that. If you leave the comment section open, you are aiding people in sinning and speaking constant lashon hara. At some point things stopped being fact and ended up being speculation and nothing you can say will convince me that speculation is l’toeles. Absolute, 100% hardcore concrete fact is l’toeles. None of these comments are l’toeles, no matter what excuses you bring. If there is something of signifigant information that you feel absolutely without a doubt needs to be exposed, make another blog post. But for the sake of the state of the frum people, for the sake of going into the three weeks and assisting in trying to erase some of the sinas chinam in the world that you’re currently aiding in, close the comments section. You’ll be saving countless people from aveiros…isn’t the reward in the world to come for that something to consider?

    • Once more, the toeles is to prevent people from going to the Meisels-infected sems. The ones where the staff continue to berate victims and try to exact revenge even after this monster admitted everything. That’s all the toeles you’ll ever need.

  105. “Someone somewhere”, people also have freewill. Anyone who doesn’t like this blog or the truth doesn’t have to be here.

  106. Ok, so now we know that he admitted to it. Very wrong. Question, I see the beis din stated that he is immoral, but did the beis din say that he is an abuser? I see a lot of comments calling him a sex offender, abuser, molester etc. What he did was wrong no doubt, but there is a difference. Before you all jump down my throat, WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG REGARDLESS.

    • smh,
      i am wondering, which if any of the abuse categories you mention, would cause you personally to feel that his guilt, already established, and admitted to,, is diminished…..does molest, l’mashal sound like a kinder sound bite than abuse????
      what is it you are asking. spit it out, so we can understand the inyan you see as chachuv. thank you.

      • Why should I feel guilt? The heck did I do? He was supposed to protect his students- not have a sexual relationship with them. What he did was wrong even for normal person let alone a rabbi. That doesn’t make him a sex offender though. Also, I am not entirely convinced that these relationships were unwanted. Was he wrong? Yes. Rapist? No.

        • No one knows if it was forced sex. Although, they were no doubt manipulated and preyed on and taken advantage of and destroyed by the one person who was suppose to protect them.

        • You cant say what he isn’t without knowing the content of the Chicago testimony and investigation. they are not saying. Just as with shnayim achzu, each swears that they are entitled to at least half, all those without detailed information can say is that Chicago concluded he was at least guilty of unwanted sexual activity. Dont reach conclusions for which you have no factual information, please.

  107. I just felt like saying one more thing
    There’s a saying that goes “don’t judge people who sin differently than you”
    I think with all the lashon hara going on here non of u guys are perfect and we all have what to work on! I am not g-d forbid justifying anything!! But I don’t think its any if our business and I don’t think anyone has a right to believe someone speeding rumers
    So Mr. Lopin when I hear rabbi meiseles admitting to this I’ll believe it but no one out to believe all the nonsense your speeding on this pathetic blog of yours!

    • Then call Rabbi Fuerst yourself. He will tell you everything you need to know. You won’t need to rely on a blog. He will tell you that your idol, the monster Mr. Meisels admitted to everything. And unlike Meisels, R’ Fuerst is an actual talmid chochom. If you have emunas chachomin (as opposed to Meisels worship, which isn’t the same thing) you will believe what Rabbi Fuerst tells you.

      • Triangle, good for you for still answering back to information people who refuse to listen. I’ve almost lost hope in them (although you wrongly accused someone of being Meisles himself, which prob wasn’t a respectful move).

        We have been saying this until it comes out of our EARS: call rabbi fuerst.

        If not, you are apart of the Meisles cult and have no interest in Emes.

        We will not tell you again. Anyone. Meisles has confessed. Call rabbi Fuerst if your self-esteem can handle it.

        • Rabbi Meisels has confessed? I missed that. When was that? Stepping down from his seminaries is not an admission of guilt. You need to understand the difference.

          • And you need to learn to read.

            Many of the posts here say he confessed. I myself spoke to rabbi fuerst last night and he told me off the bat that Meisles confessed to doing sexual activities with his students.

  108. After reading the postings on this site, I still wish to know how many girls came forward.

    Until the numbers are provided, I refuse to believe even the great Chicago Beis Din.

    In the past, when allegations were made against a rabbi, there were numerous complaints. Here, it seems that numerous young women never had an issue with Rabbi Meisels. So, how many young women came forward to complain?

    I will base my judgement on the numbers.

    Stop the witch hunt!

    • I have always been rational and kept an open mind to everyone’s rights to make their own thoughts and opinions heard. I have yet to get upset about anyone’s opinions whether I agree with them or not – but you sir take the cake and finally annoyed the daylights out of me. My question to you is – How many violated girls is enough for you?????? If he did it to one or two is it OK by you? How about three or four? still okay – No maybe you need ten?? Did you think before you posted? If your daughter was ONE and the only one and she came to complain to you – would you say – sorry I don’t believe it because no one else came forward?? I truly hope I took this post wrong and you really meant something else.

      • Concerned mother,
        Your response was perfect. It is really not “rational thinker” but rather “irrational thinker”. But there was so much wrong so very wrong, with that comment. I applaud your answer. btw, I know someone who’s husband’s eldest daughter was abused–by her own grandfather. (this was from a previous marriage of my friend’s husband). His own father abused his eldest daughter. I think she did not tell the story until she was adult. Response of her father (now married to my friend) “what’s the big deal,. it’s not as if he penetrated her”. My friend (and I when I heard the story years later) was shocked and appalled. But she’s still married to this creep. There were a few other daughters. My understanding is that none of them ever reported similar event.
        either yes or no. I never prodded for more info. btw, just as an aside, this was not a Jewish family.

    • I just spoke to a friend of mine. MANY girls in general had issues with him and did not respect him for his I appropriateness. I can say at least HALF my seminary year saw his “flirty-ness” but never chose to make a stink about it. I am confident on this amount. My year had many girls who saw his lack of major boundaries.

      As far as the girls who were actually involved in the sexual acts, I am unsure. When I spoke to Rabbi Fuerst he just kept saying “many many girls.”

      • TruthSeeker,
        I also want to beg mechila from you for my speculative comments, To be sure, your comments have been highly conflictual, to thepoint efshar of contradictory, and the non-knowledgable outsider would have no way of knowing why. I do stand by some of my comments re yours, but in general, I wanted to tell you that I do now believe that you are, more or less whom you claim. contradictions not withstanding. and I hope that I did not cause you further pain, to what was, obviously a very painful (no, ambivalent per your descriptions) year. still don’t understand your forceful promotion of a seminary where so many “disturbing” things were occuring. but i am dropping this line of questioning, you have your reasons, and people are allowed to be ambivalent and i am starting to gather that perhaps many of your comments were positively motivated.
        for sure much more than a tsel shel safek. all the best. emes.

        • And for the last time, I chose the name TruthSeeker for a reason.

          I only want to help the world and seek justice and emes.

          I hope my comments have helped some if not many ppl and I hope that by now everyone thinks I am truly an Emes-dig person in everything I write, esp my very first long post about Meisles and his actions that I have witnessed and going to other people to cry out for help to no avail…

      • TruthSeeker, since when does flirting equate sex abuse? I think we all know there is quite a difference. And, here you say you are unsure as to whether any girls were involved in sex acts…. TruthSeeker, your testimony is mere speculation and wouldn’t be worth much in a court of law. If you really are about seeking truth, you need to understand that you might be needlessly destroying a life.

        • It does not matter at all what she (Truthseeker) knows. the Beis Din investigated and knows, and spoke to many victims and and and AND GOT AN ADMISSION OF GUILT from measles. what the heck more do you want rational thinker, (sic). you want videotape surveillance? you never know, they had that on Deutsch, which see tonight. someone is guarding a secret here, methinks. but perhaps, wishful thinking. only time will tell if there is an ed, a digital ed. thank you so much for your valuable contributions to this message board.
          Do tell us more…. b’vakasha….

        • I hope that wasn’t an accusation.

          I will answer as if it was you asking me nicely (which I hope was your intent).

          I nvr saw physical contact but I saw appalling scenarios where I highly suspected physical contact. And yes, “rational thinker, that is exactly why I nvr took him to trial or anything serious. Bc at the end of the day, I had no proof of sexual acts that I had seen. I complained to ppl bc I was scared and worried about the girls’ safety bc u had witnessed Meisels majorly cross boundaries. There is much for to say, but I choose to save my words.

          (And apparently, my intuition was right on target bc now he is considered a sex predator, so why don’t you thank me).

          Again, if you are curious for me to clear something up, please ask politely and I will answer. Everyone, please try not to be accusing. It is unpleasant in every which way.

          Thank you.

          #TruthSeeker

    • Numbers don’t matter, although in this case it seems that Meisels has left several young girls with his….genetic material. What matters is that when confronted, he confessed to the Beis Din. He confessed. He is a loser and an animal.

      Now, how will numbers change anything?? Does it matter if he had his way with 5 girls, or 50, or 500? Not at all. It’s not a witch hunt if he already admitted it.

      Stop the silly defense of a monster.

      • Excuse me, Triangle. I do know what “genetic material” means. in the abstract. But could not help but wonder due to your terminology, if any of these girls are/were actually conceiving a child from this minuval? were you just trying to say. that his molestations,. many. reached the stage of penetration with semen??? that’s why they call them semenaries. oy; humor in the depths of despair. black humor, i apologize, has he paid for any abortions???? per your knowledge. how many years has this minuval been running these schools? i will refrain from asking the next logical question. but you know what it is…….

        • I think this has seriously crossed the line of “important to stop impropriety” into the realm of the palpably improper. if you have a need to delve into and feed your personal prurient interests there are other (albeit improper) venues.

  109. According to the Chicago Beis Din – Whom I spoke with, they still do NOT advise the girls to go there until certain changes are made. They claim that although Meisels stepped down, he still has a hand in the seminary and this according to them is UNACCEPTABLE. They urge the parents to hold off agreeing to send their girls to the school until the rest of the changes are made to ensure the girls safety. They feel that sending your girls without those changes is dangerous and if we all send them they have no incentive to make these changes. BTW – I finally got a letter from the seminary administration last night a 9 pm. A little late – don’t you think???? .

  110. Yes, Mr Lopin that is the letter i got from them last night along with a copy of the Israeli bais din in Hebrew and translated in English.

    • If it was my daughter, i would need MORE documents to verify that Meisels hands are no where involved, financially, educationally or ownership…and dont forget to check who the ‘new’ replacement dean is! we certainly have learned one thing , must look into any Rav that would spend so many hours with young girls talking and helping them…

  111. for all those vehemntly suuportive of EM, here is an idea to think about. Obviously many people came forward to complain. It sounds like this was a matter that has taken a while till it was finally brought to this level. We know how difficult and scary it is for those who came forward. Those victims are also reading these comments. Every comment in support of EM is surely “putting a knife in their back”. Keep it up shameless monsters.

    • You say, obviously many people came forward to complain. I would like the beis din to validate your assumption. If they do, and many young women came forward, then I will accept the allegations.

      I will not accept it if it were but one or two unless I hear more facts. You are talking about people who are the best and the most upstanding in our community. I need more before I will accept it.

      Others have been needlessly slandered in this manner. Yes, it is possible.

      • Irrational Thinker can you read? if you can look at the Chicago bais din letter and see that it has an S at the end of complainant which clearly means more than one (although you seem to be okay with that as long as it is a large number of girls being victimized you have a problem with as long as its not just one). Second of all call the Chicago bais din and they will tell it was more than one. Wonder who you really are that you are so pro a man that was found to be guilty by the Chicago bais din.

  112. Yerachmiel,

    Thank you, again, for publicizing this matter. As a relative of an abuse victim (not by Meisels), I know how harmful abuse can be; how it is literally a matter of Pikuach Nefashos, and that an abuser is in the Halachic category of a Rodeif. Those who have no connection to victims of abuse often don’t realize this, hence the concern that the matter not be publicized unless the molester has been shown to be guilty beyond any doubt. That is rarely a standard that is possible to meet, and cannot be the Halachic standard where the alleged behavior is putting lives in danger.

    There is no way that the Chicago Beis Din would have publicized the matter if there were not MULTIPLE credible witnesses (even though it is very rare for abuse charges to be fabricated by an individual). Even then, this type of action by Rabbanim has been very rare. This leads to the unavoidable conclusion that there is at least a Safek that Meisels is guilty, which would make him a Safek Rodeif. Under such circumstances, it is vital that the matter be publicized to protect potential victims. Any embarrassment to his family is very unfortunate, but is impossible to avoid and, at the same time, protect Bnos Yisrael.

    Those who are attacking Yerachmiel, ask yourself the following: Would I still be upset if I knew that this article would very possibly save my own daughter from being a victim? And, if not, then why is someone else’s daughter less important than my own daughter?

    To any victims of abuse who may be reading this: please find a good therapist, who specializes in the area of abuse, and get the help you need. As my relative discovered, with the proper intervention, there can be life after abuse (this therapy can be expensive, and is rarely covered by insurance or paid for by the abuser. Please don’t let that discourage you. If money is an issue, confide in a trusted individual and explain that this is an absolute necessity; hopefully, something can be worked out).

    And finally, to any abusers out there, whose behavior has not yet come to light: If you keep on abusing, you WILL get caught, and the embarrassment for you and your family will be unimaginable. Don’t expect any Rachmanus at that point. On the other hand, if you seek help now, while your actions are unknown to the public, and set up very strong fences to prevent even the appearance of impropriety, you have a chance that you won’t be shamed in this World (regarding the next World, that’s between you and your victims and G-d).

  113. Very good comment, Joe. just one thing, abusers/molesters/pedophiles, whichever, are suffering from a compulsive disorder which rarely, very rarely responds to any type of psychotherapy. There are hormonal treatments, but many minuvalim have learned how to reverse that. Then there is castration, meaning the gonads, not the offending organ, and then there is life in jail. Psychotherapy has been a dismal failure in trying to stop, cure, sexual offenders. ( Rape, which is an act of violence, I believe has a totally different scenario. ) GOOD COMMENT, well articulated.

    EVAN ZAUDER re-offended while he was under house arrest, or electronic monitoring. (don’t remember exact details), and that, after DR. David Pelcovitz, personally vouched for him as being safe and contrite. and a fine upstanding human being and begged leniency from the court. The Zauder story just demonstrates the compulsivity of the disease. Chemical or physical castration or life imprisonment are the only sure-fire ways of preventing recidivism amongst pedophiles, et al. my 2 cents.

    • Chashdan,

      Addictions in general, including sexual addiction, do not respond well to psychotherapy by itself. They do, however, respond well to a 12-Step program, provided that the individual is highly motivated to get better (not “it would be nice to quit drinking,” but along the lines of “if I take another drink, I’m dead!”), and is willing to do whatever it takes to stop the addictive behavior (to the point of making a phone call on Shabbos to a non-Jewish sponsor if that is the only way to avoid giving in to temptation).

      • The research shows that motivation and compliance with such programs is much higher when attendance is court mandated and non-compliance can lead to re-imprisonment. Placing abusers on offender registries also reduces recidivism, as do terms of probation banning certain occupations and activities (if they are enforced). For example, Jerry Braunner’s ten year (iirc) term of probation included limiting him to go to the mikvah once a year on erev yom kippur, with a monitoring adult. But he ended going all the time. similarly, Weiss, the son-in-law of Rubashkin, a rabbi (sic) in Albany got a substantial set of probation restrictions. Violating any of them could have landed him in jail. the terms included:

        “Probationer may not be in a Mikvah pool or changing area at any time when a minor child is present. ”

        See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2010/04/rabbi-yaakov-weiss-parole-order-and-conditions-567.html

  114. mz, i could not respond inline to your comment. you are absolutely correct. the previous poster aroused my intellectual curiosity, which should never be an inyan in such delicate matters, and i apologize for my questioning per his comment. Truly apologize, out of place, disturbing questions. in response to random terminology. I again apologize to any specific people who were appalled by my questions. and beg mechila.

    • You will only receive mechila if you apologize to every individual on this site for the outlandish things you’ve said.

      You told me multiple times that I need therapy bc you had the temerity to say that I was a sexual abuse victim of Meisles. A false and appalling statement.

      Your posts have really messed with a lot of innocent people and you do not think of the repercussions before you post such appalling comments and fake claims about others.

      I don’t truly expect an apology, rather I would like you to be more careful with your words and “psycho-analyzing” innocent people you’ve never met.

      • TruthSeeker, I so disagree with your take, that i am withdrawing my request for mechila. ad k’dai kach. I am not worried about my soul. are you worried about yours, and measles and you and your other friends who were complicit in not getting him indicted, when you knew he was guilty. Last time I will address you. at all. Lopin would have risked everything to go after the minuval. everything. but you are a jellyfish without a spine and without integrity. nice of you to come here, after all is said and done, and measles has ruined many lives in the interim, . which even you seem to accept now. so. that’s it.

        • What in the world are you talking about? I seemed to get Meisles FIRED from his own seminaries. I was a 19 ur old seminary girl trying to do a very brave thing and protect others and no one listened to me.

          You are zero sense.

          Like I said, I never truly sought an apology from you, as I know you will never trust me (I don’t care).

          You have truly been extremely hurtful to someone who stood up for the innocent when NO ONE would when I was in seminary. You should be ashamed of yourself for speaking to me this way.

          I couldn’t care less if you think I am truly who I claim to be, or a bum off the street.

          (Perhaps when this case is finally finished, I will give you a personal call and you can see for yourself who I truly am. You would be ashamed and really beg for mechilah).

          You are so hurtful and continue to be hurtful to many on this site.

        • TruthSeeker ,

          For some reason I cannot comment on your post below, but this is intended to be a post to your comment and not Chasdans.

          While I commend you for being on to Meisel’s inappropriate behavior, and for going to faculty about it (who admitted that they knew there was a problem, but did nothing), it is completely incorrect for you to say “I seemed to get Meisles FIRED from his own seminaries.”

          TruthSeeker, we do need people like you who are willing to question authority, and I commend you for speaking up to teachers. However, unless you are one of the very very courageous and brave victims who went to Beis Din, or one the three rebbeim (which I doubt you are), it is unfair to take credit for this.

          I am not meaning to start a fight with you, as I am quite pleased that you are able to see the emes. But please, we must not forget how very special these “victims” are. They knew it would be an uphill battle to fight, they knew it would be embarrassing to testify before three distinguished Rabbanim, but they did it to spare future girls from from the horrible horrible gehennim Meisels exposed them to. No one can take credit for what they did.

          May we all be zoche to a much happier chapter in the history of Klal Yisroel

          • Lol

            Thank you for your post

            I can confidently say that it was a typo. I meant to write “I SOUGHT to get Meisles fired. Was thinking of going back and correctly my language but I did not. Thanks for the clarification! Those girls and bais din have done a tremendous amount of “finishing the job I started”, is what I would say!
            (Chas v’shalom- I have zero interest in Kavod and ‘taking credit’. Only the well-being of others).
            Again, thanks for your post!

        • TruthSeeker ,

          For some reason I cannot comment on your post below, but this is intended to be a post to your comment and not Chasdans.

          While I commend you for being on to Meisel’s inappropriate behavior, and for going to faculty about it (who admitted that they knew there was a problem, but did nothing), it is completely incorrect for you to say “I seemed to get Meisles FIRED from his own seminaries.”

          TruthSeeker, we do need people like you who are willing to question authority, and I commend you for speaking up to teachers. However, unless you are one of the very very courageous and brave victims who went to Beis Din, or one the three rebbeim (which I doubt you are), it is unfair to take credit for this.

          I am not meaning to start a fight with you, as I am quite pleased that you are able to see the emes. But please, we must not forget how very special these “victims” are. They knew it would be an uphill battle to fight, they knew it would be embarrassing to testify before three distinguished Rabbanim, but they did it to spare future girls from from the horrible horrible gehennim Meisels exposed them to. No one can take credit for what they did.

          May we all be zoche to a much happier chapter in the history of Klal Yisroel

  115. chashdan, did you not read one of truthseekers original post? she said that she was the only one who came forward and told other teachers in the school about meisels. how can you call her a jellyfish without a spine? she was on his case when noone else even cared!

    and you have got to stop accusing her of doing ANYTHING with meisels. What’s your problem? maybe you have a guilty confession which you would like to make.

    • Thanks abc-

      Chashdan, I am beginning to think you might be a little “off your rockers”….I am not trying to pick a fight.

      But your reactions to me have been so extremely harsh, unnecessary, false, appalling, and extremely hurtful. For no reason other than I stood up against a very powerful man to protect teenage girls.

      • truthseeker, 20 year old megalomaniac. you are out of your league , tistalki me po, little pishike, sooner rather than later. liar from beginning to end.. you only have one direction to go. I suggest you get off this site sooner rather than later. you know why. but you have free will, or don’t you????

    • certainly not, i was sorry, but she did not accept it in the spirit in which it was offered. pity.
      abc, do you know lopin???? well, if you do, and therefore by definition, almost, ask him about me. lol. guilty confession????. lol. ask lopin about me. if i am trustworthy, etc, i give him full permission to talk about me, short of my phone number which he most likely does not have. what a sad situation. abc, i think you are young and a student, but not really clear, and, in essence lo chashuv, with age and experience and k’tsat mazal, one learns who one’s friends are, or are not. ani mevakeshet memech l’hitkasher to lopin. about me. afili. maybe fm, but i post differently there, but think he knows who i am. just think, sheesh, i put some cash in his gelt box once long ago.. just nominal, ya know enough to show appreciation for the work that he does. i rarely, rarely, comment over there, too scary.
      likely not sure who i am. lechi tedi.

      • what exactly is your point? that you know lopin? good for you, everyone please join in the clapping.

        honestly, i’ve been trying to verify this info about the beis din in chicago for over a month already, and lopin was the first one to post this, so kudos to him since i now know the truth.

        but i really do not know why you are even dragging lopin into this..

        MY point was: stop making false accusations about truthseeker if you do not even know her. i think you’re forgetting which side we’re all on: that is to prevent more students from becoming prey for meisels.

  116. Chashdan, you say: “the Beis Din investigated and knows, and spoke to many victims and and and AND GOT AN ADMISSION OF GUILT…”

    I am sorry, but I missed that. Where and when were you informed that the beis din spoke to many victims and obtained an admission of guilt? I really need you to clarify this for me, please.

    • Rational Thinker, for your sake I will repeat myself for the millionth time- I spoke to Rabbi Fuerst just last night and he eagerly told me that meisels gave a CONFESSION to the bias din of his disgraceful actions.

      Don’t believe me? Call him.

    • Dear “Rational Thinker”,

      There have been a number of comments on this blog from people who spoke to members of the Bais Din. Here are some:

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90136
      Aimee says: – 07/11/2014 at 2:18 pm
      So I did call Rabbi Fuerst and he confirmed it’s not a forgery. So everyone please stop doubting the authenticity. He was however very tight lipped about specifics – just said to ask for a refund and not to send our daughter….

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90168
      S. M. says: – 07/11/2014 at 4:57 pm
      My daughter was supposed to go to one of his seminaries next month. I confirmed the veracity of this letter with Rabbi Cohen myself, and my friend was informed by Rabbi Fuerst that it is a legitimate letter. He also told her that it is asur to send a girl to one of those seminaries if Rabbi Meisels is involved….

      https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/rabbinical-court-accuses-seminary-operator-elimelech-meisels-of-unwanted-sexual-contact/#comment-90174
      Joseph says: – 07/11/2014 at 5:44 pm
      NATMAN,
      ABSOLUTE LIE! I spoke to Rav Shmuel Fuerst myself two hours ago and he said it is 100% true, valid, and authentic. He also said the Beis Din’s letter was quite “nice” to the creep Meisels and they could have written A LOT more. He also said that what Meisels did will destroy seminaries in Eretz Yisroel because it creates a “kol” that all Rabbeim are creeps like him. Some obviously are, but the majority thankfully are not. Charlatans like Meisels and all the others who pick on the meek and prey on the defenseless need to be ousted and dealt with swiftly and a lot sooner. More power to you Yerachmiel, keep up your holy work, G-d Bless : )

      • Thank you Dorron. I recently gathered much info re a diff, kind of creep. with reasonably clear results, ask Yerachmiel.
        i am 99% sure that I succeeded, and that this creep will never be invited to lecture ever again.. it was a lot of work, searching all of the blogs, for pronouncements, facts.
        the feeling of having succeeded is fantastic. I pray that it “sticks”.

        • chashdan, you obviously have an agenda. I only wish you would be honest enough to tell us why you are intent on destroying another without any real evidence of wrongdoing. Dislike of another and suspicion as to his intentions does not constitute evidence. Now, please leave this alone.

        • this is for “rational thinker”
          Dear rational thinker,
          at the first opportunity you need to change your name.
          your soul. well, that is the one Hashem gave you. good luck with that. varius terminology such as idiot or moron are so so beyond the scope of your issues, that i will not even try to apply them
          All the best, paid poster. and if not, afilu more busha. anyway you slice it or dice it you are basar she nigal. per Hashem’s midot tovot.

  117. chashdan, the more you spew the more it is obvious that you have issues. Anyone can see that so you might want to let well enough alone.

  118. On the letter we got from the seminary yesterday names and numbers were provided for us to call. When my friend spoke to one of the people she was told that the Israeli bais din is in financial control of the seminaries at this point and that Meisels has no control. I dont understand this – how can a bais din be impartial when they are taking over financial control? Can someone please explain?

    • The issue in question has nothing to do with finances. I too wonder why any bais din would take financial control of an institution. I am not sure I believe this. However, if true, then I have to say there is something else going on here. Maybe a little jealousy over someone else’s success? What do you think?

      • Rational Thinker, there is a rational connection with finances. Will a molested girl turn for help to a seminary employee knowing Meisel’s family owns and runs the seminary? Will he or she sign a complaint against those who sign his or her paycheck? Will he or she keep Meisel from approaching seminary girls, even if he is no longer formally employed there, if his family retains control of the seminary? I believe it was R. Yochanan ben Zakkai who said, “may you fear Heaven as much as you fear human beings.” Not everyone manages that, and part of thinking rationally is asking who might fear what from whom.

        • Nice, Kevin. As usual, you speak infrequently, but when you do, it is maleh tochen. yasher Koach.

  119. A PLEA FOR CIVILITY AND A THREAT

    Some of the back and forth has gotten out of control. I more than most folks value open honest disagreement. I don’t mind if things get a little edgy. But this is a very active discussion with many participants, and frankly, some of the bickering is over the top, on both sides.

    Please behave as if the people you disagree with are your neighbors, co-workers, or fellow-congregants. Write in a way that you would not be embarassed or leave them needlessly enraged. Be respectful even as you disagree. Also stay to the point and relatively brief, and proof your stuff before you submit it.

    Because I want to keep this discussion valuable for all readers, not those who are momentarily enraged (justifiably or not).

    I will use my discretion to not approve or delete comments that cross the line. I do not have time to individually edit and explain decisions on post with over 500 comments and with more coming in regularly.

    I hope the readers and commenters will respect that I will be doing it impartially and in the best interest of the larger community interested in this issue.

      • Yerachmiel Lopin is the most honest blogger on the net, of the highest degree of integrity. No one even comes close to him. halevai that i would know him personally, which i do not.

    • I have been begging this of everyone the entire time I’ve been on the post. Only objective, non-accusatory a claims and questions please. Only what will be helpful to the public in any way.

      Thank you for requesting it again. Perhaps everyone will listen now.

  120. TruthSeeker- gosh I didn’t realize it was actual sex.
    Lopin- I can’t say what he isn’t?? If they are “not saying” then how can you say what he is?

    • For the umpteenth and last time it was “Unwanted Sexual Contact” involving at least two students, per the Chicago “Special Beis Din” Whether it was rape or groping is immaterial for determining whether he is fit to be in proximity and presented as a religious role model. Either is enough to settle that issue. There is understandable curiosity, but it is not our business or necessary for assessing his suitability or trustworthiness in that role. It was not an asexual hug (though even that it way outside the norms of conduct for a Yeshivish rabbi). It was definitely more than a flirtatious or coy comment.

      • I was informed straight by one of the rabbis who signed that it, indeed, it went to a point of reaching the act of actual sex.

        Before I could say the word “sex” on the phone with the rabbi (it was very embarrassing but I needed to make sure I knew what ‘sexual misconduct’ meant), he abruptly and passionately answered me, “yes! Yes it did. And he completely confessed to doing it.”

        The turmoil of hearing the rabbi on the phone saying “there were SO MANY girls. So many girls lives ruined. Do you have ANY idea?? Do you have ANY idea how many??”

        This is what I was simply told. So so sad. I cry for the world.

  121. Mr. Lopin, it is important to gather more details. As I mentioned in a previous post, a rebbe in my children’s yeshivah was accused of molestation and let go. We parents, all know that he is no child molester. He just needed to go for other reasons. Needless to say, the school finished him off with the manner in which they chose to handle it. A man teaches for over 20 years and is accused by one student with an agenda! I am not sure I can get over this.

    It is certainly possible to be falsely accused. In a court of law the details would emerge. The verdict of the bais din does not impress me. However, I require the details in order be persuaded. This is not to say that it can’t be true, however, all of us who know the Meisels family well are wondering whether something else is going on here.

    • Well, what are you wondering? Why does the judgment of the beis din not “impress” you? Don’t call yourself “Rational Thinker” if all you can offer is a very inexact parallel to a case that was decided unfairly by school administrators, not independent, respected dayanim. Nothing human is perfect. In courts of law, (most) testimony is public, but rules of evidence prevent some things from being heard. The fact that testimony is public also prevents some probative and truthful testimony from being heard. The reason for not giving details in a case like this should be obvious. I do not know the dayanim at all, but it was evident to me that the dayanim chose their words with caution and discretion, not saying more than necessary about what they were persuaded had occurred, yet mindful of their duty to give a clear warning. If you were not impressed by their pronouncement, it was not their job to impress you.

    • Yes, all human processes for fact finding and decision making are potentially vulnerable to error. Doctors make mistakes and some of them kill patients. On critical procedures it pays to check credential and seek excellence. But it is not sane for someone with cancer to be unwilling to accept any diagnosis or consider any treatment because doctors sometimes err gravely. Jew are enjoined to establish courts. In fact gentiles are enjoined to establish courts as one of the shevah mitzvos bnai noach.

      It is not sane to say it cannot be true because I know them. It makes sense to say I am shocked and find it hard to believe. It can take time to wrap our brains around it. I once had the unpleasant task of telling a friend his uncle was credibly accused as a molester of young children. He did not want to believe it because this uncle was incredibly kind and helpful to my friend. But to my friend’s credit he asked around, listened, and eventually got back to me and said he sadly had to accept that

      • As I said in my post, I am not saying that this is impossible because I know the family. Many things happen in families that are inconsistent with past history. Therefore, I can be persuaded with details. However, right now, there isn’t much here for me to wrap my brains around.

        • Seems as if you will only be content with a surveilance videotape. Hey. we had one of Deutsch, with two boys, same day, same place, Bklyn shul. got off almost scott free. so what if you had a magical videotape showing everything that measles had done form age 3 untill current time. He is still filthy rich. don’t know who you are. WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT VIDEO TAPE? WHICH documented i elu cases of rape, or forced sex, you are free to choose your terninology. what would you do/ FURTHERMORE, let us hypothesize that you are the only one in the world in possession of this videotape. would that affect your decision? if he only molested boys in the mikveh, vs. young ladies at seminary, would that change your stance. Think about it. a really impt question. you and you soul, what would you do, having full total control of the facts, you, and only you.

  122. “The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.” – James A. Garfield

    The “big lie” can be counteracted if those who know the truth are willing to speak up. Let us make the liars miserable.

  123. I have deleted a number of comments because they are more personal than about the topic at hand. I appreciate the passions, but fairness to the readers at large requires comments to stay on topic. At the end of the day the question is what happened and what should happen in these seminaries, not how some of you feel about others.

Comments are closed.