Kahane’s Folly

Shimon bar Kohba silver shekel

Shimon bar Kohba silver shekel “To the freedom of Yerushalayim”

Even the great Rabbi Akiva with the best of intentions and lomdus (rabbinical acumen) made the mistake of believing Bar Kochba was the moshiach (messiah) when he backed his rebellion against the Romans. The principal of Elimelech Meisel’s seminary, Chedvas, is dangerously delusional. With the worst of lomdus and the most self-serving of intentions he distorts the halacha (Jewish law) of loshon horah (defamatory facts which are true) and makes grandiose claims about moshiach. In a letter to his recent students he wrote:

Hakadosh Baruch is telling us that Klal Yisroel needs major zchuyos (merits), gigantic zchuyos

All of us know that loshon hara without toeless (protective purposes) is assur (forbidden). At this stage of the very unfortunate situation our school finds itself in, there is no toeles in discussing the situation and its details. And even l’toeles the halacha is that it’s asur to believe it…

Much of the world is talking about it and much of the world believes it… Hashem (G-d) is saying Chedvas you be the ones to stay quiet… My students, if we stay strong we can and will change the world…

Hashem believes in us, so let’s believe in ourselves. Let’s make chizuk projects to be michazek each other, let’s make buddy systems to see if we’re staying in check… I have a sinking feeling we’re going to bring Mashiach.

Sources tell us that before Mashiach there will be a big nisayon (test)that will be very hard to pass. Those who do will merit Mashiach. Those who don’t…

Rabbi Kahane insists his students should not talk about the Chicago beis din ruling that students avoid Meisel’s seminaries because of the danger of unwanted sexual contact. Kahane is trying to prevent information of abuse from getting to a beis din (rabbinical court) or authorities, therby endangering potential victims and further traumatizing those who have been abused.

The Chofetz Chaim must be crying to see his work being distorted by a man who knows better. Kahane claims that even l’toeles (for a purpose such as protecting others) one may not believe allegations. However, the position of the Chofetz Chaim was that l’toeles, one may act on loshon horah (truthful derogatory information) to protect oneself and others. The rules of loshon horah are not unilateral disarmament against predators bent on money and monkey business.

In his desperate attempt to keep the enterprise afloat, Kahane marries this distortion of halachah to grandiose promises about bringing the messiah, as if that can be accomplished by protecting a predator.

Not for a second am I accusing Kahane of personal sexual impropriety. But he, like Meisels, uses his charisma and the trust of his students to whip them into a frenzy in which they suspend their judgment and stop looking at the facts and halacha. Meisel’s grooming for sex and Kahane’s frenzied preaching are two sides of the same counterfeit charismatic coin.

I started out thinking the problem was sexual abuse, but I am now convinced that the problem is deeper; it is an utter disrespect for student discernment that turns them into tools of the seminaries’ agendas.

People keep asking how Bais Yaakov girls schooled in tznius (modesty) could have acquiesced to Meisels’ perversions. The answer is that there is such a thing as too much respect for rabbis, too uncritical an acceptance of outlandish ideas. In my experience it is the most idealistic students who are most vulnerable. They so want to be better, they are so insecure, they are so eager to be raised up further through the guidance of rabbis they put on a pedestal; they are so distrustful of their own instincts. They are so, so vulnerable. The one thing they have not been taught is kabdeihu vichashdeihu (respect and suspect).

The staff that should have protected them, turned a blind eye and rebuffed those who could not help noticing Meisels incessant flirting, texting, and late night excursions in his van. Some of the girls had eyes, but the staff had no ears. Some of my sources who criticized Meisels were at first protective of Rabbi Kahane. But now that they have seen his missive they are devastated and furious.

I now wonder if the seminaries are worth saving. Its culture is pathological; its denial cannot be pierced. Even now it continues to protect Meisels and refuses to admit the facts conceded by many others. Unless Meisels and his supporters admit the truth, the pathology will get a new lease of life under different management.

 

Below is the full text Rabbi Meir Kahane’s message as first posted on the blog, Rare View.

From: Meir Kahane <MKahane@aish.com>
Date: July 17, 2014 at 7:03:09 PM EDT
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

Dear Chedvas Graduates amus’h,

I am inspired to write you a letter. It was just recently that I was reminiscing about your year. When the three kdoshim were missing, I recalled our mission a few years ago to save Gilad Shalit. I recalled the the dedication with which you worked and the determination. I recalled that you were brave enough to fight a yetzer hara that so many fell prey to. When most girls were wearing skirts above their knees you made a kinnus to teach the world that it’s assur. While the kdoshim were missing, I kept asking myself, where is my army? We saved Gilad, we can save them as well. I have no doubt my army was doing their part. This time, Hashem said no.

But the death of three kdoshim led to war. When things started getting worse the nagging thought kept coming back. Is my army doing its job? While the rest of the world is relying on the IDF, I personally was relying on a different army- you, my Chedvas graduates.

The thought crossed my mind more than once over the past couple of weeks “can we do another kinnus?” Can we do one now to save us from the war? But scattered all over the world, it seemed quite impractical.

Hakadosh Baruch Hu has his ways. And he sent us a nisayon of colossal proportions. It’s as if Hakadosh Baruch is telling us that Klal Yisroel needs major zchuyos, gigantic zchuyos. You be the ones to do it.

All of us know that loshon hara without toeles is assur. At this stage of the very unfortunate situation our school finds itself in, there is no toeles in discussing the situation and its details. And even l’toeles the halacha is that it’s asur to believe it. My Chedvas students. Much of the world is talking about it and much of the world believes it. Do you hear Hashem speaking to us? Hashem is saying Chedvas you be the ones to stay quiet. Hashem is giving us another chance for a kinnus. He’s telling us that he listened to us last time, and wants to listen again. But this time the kinnus will not be on a stage, with signs all over Yerushalayim and a video. It will personal, and quiet, and extremely hard. My students, if we stay strong we can and will change the world.

I never thought we’d have a chance to do this again. Hashem believes in us, so let’s believe in ourselves. Let’s make chizuk projects to be michazek each other, let’s make buddy systems to see if we’re staying in check. I’m ready for volunteers to come up with a mehalach. I have a sinking feeling we’re going to bring Mashiach.

Sources tell us that before Mashiach there will be a big nisayon that will be very hard to pass. Those who do will merit Mashiach. Those who don’t…

I’m looking forward to hearing your ideas on how to initiate this program. I’m happy to make it worldwide.

With tefilos that Hashem should bring everyone back to His Torah, I remain,

Sincerely,

Rabbi Kahane

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159 thoughts on “Kahane’s Folly

  1. In my experience it is the most idealistic students who are most vulnerable. They so want to be better, they are so insecure, they are so eager to be raised up further through the guidance of rabbis they put on a pedestal; they are so distrustful of their own instincts.

    That was definitely true of Baruch Lanner’s victims. They were intelligent, idealistic and wanted to “grow” in Torah because they honestly believed it was the right thing to do.

  2. What a shameless cynic. Think of the lives that would have been saved if we had less emunas chachamim and spoke more loshon hora.

    Not to suggest that these scoundrels are chachamim. They are manipulative bums.

    Why do we entrust our children to men such as these? How can we send our daughters to high schools run by people who feed these seminaries.

    When did we just surrender?

  3. It is now not enough that this “Rabbi” Meir Kahane be removed from Chedva, but from Aish HaTorah, too. His e-mail has an Aish HaTorah suffix after the @ sign. He should not be in chinuch until he learns the proper way to handle SA cases. I bet that the 4 Meisels seminaries have absolutely no protocol in place to handle SA cases. I’ll even go so far as to speculate that Aish Hatorah doesn’t have any SA protocols in place, either. And my son went to Aish in the Old City. This gets me sick. The internet has changed the old paradigm of being able to cover these SA cases up; it doesn’t work that way anymore. These lackeys who see their job as being more important than doing the right thing by our children have no place in chinuch, anyways. Take a look at the Dus Iz Niez blog, http://dusiznies.blogspot.com/ to read the 2 articles on this lackey, Rabbi Meir Kahane. He’s certainly on a much lower level than any of the Chicago Special Bais Din rabbanim. Because of this, his arguments in the letter are worthless compared to their word.

  4. A rabbi in Israel wrote someone, “The first part of the letter where his army helped free Gilad Shalit by wearing longer skirts but tragically couldn’t save the three kidnapped teenagers because God’s ways are inscrutable shows him to be a dangerous moron.”

    He got back the reply: “Yes. Inspecter Clouseau +Iron Yarmulke fronted by Rambo on tznius steroids.”

  5. A sexual predator has the Halachic status of a Rodeif. The Heter to get the word out is not only because it’s l’toeles (which is a special heter for Lashon Horah and, as per the Chofetz Chaim, requires seven conditions to be met), but because it is Safek Pikuach Nefashos (which almost unconditionally overrides virtually every negative prohibition).

  6. Did the Rabbanim say to spread the word? becuase if not then it can be assumed that it is loshon hora… Dont you think we can trust the gedolei hadur? If we needed to know theyd tell us?
    Emotions are blinding you!

      • its only mitzvah lfarsem if you are 100%sure he did it if not its assur and ey bd is still looking into it

          • I think its amazing that you ask rabbanim, but did you ask them in general or every step of the way in this and every other complicated situation.
            I agree it may be toeles and I commend you for getting things out there lshem shamayim, but I think this already passed toeles .
            Now people are just using this as a forum to vent their frustrations with the system or let out their anger about abuse, directing it at anyone who deserves any blame at all.

        • You don’t need to be 100% sure. Safek Pikuach Nefesh overrides almost every Lo Sa’aseh, including Lashon Horah. Anyway, one has the right to rely on the findings of the Chicago Beis Din for purposes of Hilchos Lashon Horah.

          • how about the Israeli bd that got the case from chicago which has last say keeps on contradicting chicagos finds

            • The Israeli Beis Din knows fully well that Meisels is guilty as sin (and of sin). That is why they say nothing. Chicago never surrendered its role as a US beis din and an Israeli beis din cannot take that role away, al pi halacha. Chicago is paskening for Americans about going to Meisels’ seminaries. They maintain their psak so they do not believe the Israeli Beis din ruled correctly.

            • btw the Israeli bd is R karelitz bd and R shafran is the posek hador the chicago bd dosent come up to their toes to hold they ruled incorrectly

            • I am astounded that you think beis din jurisdiction is based on some rating like the hp of car engines or the winner on American Idol. Jurisdiction is not based on some absolute ranking. For example the traffic court judge in a hicktown in the smallest state in the union, Rhode Island has jurisdiction of someone arrested for speeding in his town who comes from Los Angeles. The small town judge has more jurisdiction that the supreme court justice of the California Supreme Court or even than the Chief Justice of the United States. In halacha a local court has jurisdiction. This is a psak in a particular case involving at least one Chicago victim. They did not pasken for Israel. They just ruled that people in their area should not send their daughters to the Meisels seminary. Even a Beis din combining Rav Shteinbuch, Rav Shteinman, Rav Cohen of Shas and both Chief Rabbis does not have jurisdiction in Chicago. Secondly this is not the beis din of R. Karlitz. They did not use its letterhead. They did not declare that in writing their psak. Stop trying to steal glory undeserved. R. Shafran is certainly a highly respected dayan, though I believe he erred in this case. he is not the posek hador. R. Shafran is a chosid, and they do not hold from the litvish shitah of posek hador. Among Hasidim, each movement has its own poskim and relies on them. Obviously some are more respected and influential on others. In halachah do you do not have to be the biggest and best. A rav with smichah, especially one with Yadin Yadin, has the power to paskin in his jurisdiction and can contradict the rulings in other jurisdictions, as long as their ruling is consistent with halacha.

            • Along the lines of what Yerachmiel responded, no where did the Israeli Beis Din say that Meisels is innocent. But, even if they did, the Chicago Beis Din, which investigated the matter thoroughly, has not changed its position. For the purposes of whether you can spread the word to protect people, this would certainly be a situation of Safek Pikuach Nefesh, even if the Israeli Beis Din were to maintain that Meisels was innocent (which they don’t).

    • Yes, they told us with the Chicago Special Bais Din ruling.
      Yes, they told us with the Hebrew Theological College yanking Meisels accreditation
      Yes, they told us with Touro doing the same as HTC.
      You call yourself “unbiased”, but I think “unbright” is more a more apropos moniker.

      • Lopin talking about the jurisdiction of a BD the CBD clearly handed the case over even for people in Chicago to the Israeli BD and its R karelitz BD so obviously their acting with his haskamah

        • @ don’t understand: If it was “clearly handed the case over EVEN (my capitalization) for people in Chicago, then why:
          1) The next day after the ruling, HTC came out severing its accreditation with Meisels Israeli seminaries?
          2) Touro followed HTC’s lead?
          3) the Chicago Special Bais Din reiterated that it’s still a danger to send young women to those 4 Meisels seminaries until they publish another psak din stating that its safe to do so?

          I conclude differently than you do:
          1) They’re (your spelling mistake of “their”) not acting with R Karelitz’s haskamah
          2) Your moniker of “don’t understand” is very well chosen.

          The spin stops here.

      • Kosher Ham-
        Ok, I can agree to disagree. The part of this that bothers me most is just that people are going on and on when saying it for the sake of toeles no longer applies.
        About my name. I called myself unbiased because I have no biases such as ties with the Meisels nor do I have any reason to lean towards one side or the other.
        Maybe I am “unbright”, Ill give you that. But at least I dont calll people derogatory names, and after 120, I think thats what will count more, but then again, Im not smart, so I could be wrong.

        • What needs to happen for this to stop is:

          1) read http://www.adkanenough.com/updates & see their Recommended Protocol on How to Deal with Sexual Misconduct in Religious Institutions.
          2) Read http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1839&ThisGroup_ID=238&Type=Article&SID=2

          Part 5 of the 12 step program ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_steps ) is admitting your failings

          I don’t know how Meisels can go through Rosh HaShanah without asking for forgiveness to those he wronged. Until he issues a statement that he did so, the pressure will continue, both on him & his (former?) institutions.

          Meir Kahane should’ve hired a PR firm. He didn’t. Any PR firm would’ve told him that to make this go away is to:
          1) Admit guilt via a public statement of some sort, which includes acknowledging apologies were made to all victims
          2) Put Ad Kan/Rabbi Horowitz suggested protocols in place to prevent this in the future
          3) Announce that Meisels is going for therapy
          4) Offer therapy & restitution to the victims

          So far, none of this has happened. The talking will continue until the pressure leads to these most reasonable steps that I’ve enumerated.

          Maybe you’ve got a better way for the talking to end?

        • …and let me add:
          5) Enablers @ said seminaries will be at least re-trained in how to deal with SA appropriately, if not removed permanently.

          • I agree with you. You make total sence. You should start calling yourself “Bright”. But why go around saying all of this? Why not do something actually PRODUCTIVE like writing an email (respectfully) saying that to the people who can actually do something and make the things on your list happen, instead of the people here who cant do anything anyway.

            • Because most of the leadership have repeatedly failed the test. Most cases of abuse reported by reliable witnesses to frum leadership are ignored. So now, people have to act in any way they can including using the Internet to organize and communicate. We need to create a situation where leaders who are failing will be shamed into doing the right thing. Maybe, mitoch shelo lishma, bah lishma.

            • So maybe its time to take the energy used here and use it to inform and enforce SA protocol. How about organizing and comunicating that?

            • That is important, but organizations have to have the will to do it. Outsiders cannot impose it; they can let mosdos know that they will refuse to enroll unless they have such policies WITH TEETH and ENFORCE THEM. Hasn’t happened yet in spite of the Novominsker Rebbe crying tears about the problem several years ago at the Agudah convention.

  7. Worth posting a comment from duz iz neias – I think this says it all

    someone who knows said…
    I went to Pninim. And Chedvas. I am not here to talk about Meisels although I will say this scandal comes as no surprise. But to hear Kahane speak this way just escalated the whole thing to another level. This is coming from a man who refused to accept Pninim girls until Meisels forced him to. He constantly ridiculed him for living the “in-between kinda frum.” He mocked him and disagreed with him on everything. He disrespected him to his students with plenty of lashon hara. And now he’s telling us to be quiet? Now, when we’ve learned to trust in rabbanim we shouldn’t believe what a Beis Din says even if it’s lashon hara litoeles? I can’t hold back anymore. People need to see what goes on in this seminary. This is how they teach. This is how they live. This is the way they want us to be.
    Rabbi kahane,
    Are we YOUR army? Did YOU train us? Do you really know what hashem is saying? No, I don’t hear Him telling chedvas girls to be quiet. I don’t hear Him telling me that my knees have anything to do with anything at all besides me and my private modesty which you have no right trying to control. You are not a commander. You are not a seargeant. You are not in control of who can save the world and who will merit mashiach. You actually know nothing at all. You are blinded. Misguided. You fell for the mystical attraction of religion and you try to pass on falsehood. I have been under your rule. I have experienced your perspective. I have heard your voice in my ear while you yelled through your phone. Because you disagreed with a choice I made about my life. I actually never heard a rabbi scream like that. And it hurt the kind that made me cry. Every soldier that dies I think it’s my fault. I think god is punishing ME. I automatically feel guilt for every bad thing I hear, because if you do something wrong YOUR DESTROYING THE WORLD! Am I? So, all who are in favor of succumbing to a cult where you will never find true happiness – stick with chedvas. You will enjoy a fun filled year under a manipulative man who will try to impress on you things you do not need to do so that he can be in control. Give it up kahaine. You can’t control the world. I can’t destroy it either. If you really want to change something I heard the IDF needs some help in Gaza.

    • Wow. This comment is excellent! The hypocrisy of the teachers, of Rabbi Kahane, is astoundingly bold. I remember that intense fear as an adolescent and young adult that every aveira I did was hurting people who I loved and cared about. As a very sincere student who wanted to do the right thing, to be good, to be as good as I can possibly be, to help people, to change the world with my actions, I took every word of those admonitions seriously. I walked around with immense guilt when I couldn’t measure up. I walked around feeling responsible for everything bad that happened to everyone I loved and cared about.

      But can a kind and compassionate God really work that way? I have come to believe that He doesn’t. It took a number of years for me to come to that recognition. But “Brainwash” wears off very, very slowly. And the messages are still a part of every other shiur. Do those rabbanim who use that firebrand way of getting people to do the “Frum thing” really have that connection to Hashem to know that He wants that? I don’t think so. I think they are just manipulating people’s emotions.

      There’s a lot of manipulation and brainwashing that goes on in these Seminaries. I experienced it myself, and to this day (over 25 years later) experience it’s repercussions. There is nothing emotionally or spiritually healthy about it. It kills the spirit of those of us who are sincerely yearning for meaning and spiritual depth to our lives. It creates brainwashed automatons (as Yerachmiel explains, above). To the point where otherwise good people, who I’m sure taught in Meisels’ schools, excuse the methods of “getting through to girls” because the ends (producing Frum girls) presumably justified the means – using obviously unethical and immoral ways of influencing them.

      Does Hashem really need that – creating Frum people through unethical or questionably moral means? Those of us who have regained our sense of right and wrong and now can think for ourselves, truly wonder. And those of us who are brave enough to admit it, think not. No, a kind, compassionate God would not want unethical means used to keep or make people Frum. A kind and compassionate God would want Bein Adam L’Chaveiro to come first and foremost in Frumkeit, before anyone keeps Tznius or even Shabbos. What is Shabbos worth if it’s ultimately hurting people’s lives and being accomplished through unethical means? There isn’t a Rov in the world who I would trust to tell me otherwise. Even if you call him a Gadol. Nevu’ah ended. Until Moshiach comes, we are truly on our own. And when we are misguided by Rabbonim, or even Gedolim, we need to recognize that, and act accordingly.

    • Wow- nice! I JUST posted the link of this comment! I responded to kahanes letter in the exact same way as her.

      Like I’ve said in previous posts- kahane likes to pull the guilt trip on his students and telling them they aren’t good enough. Everything (literally everything) is followed by “save the world”, “bring Moshiach”.

      • Wow! Is that save the world guilt trip brainwashing common at most seminaries?? I had no idea!! Horrible !! And they wonder why kids go OTD!!!

  8. The following letter was sent to Rabbi Kahane. I am not aware of him responding.

    Your letter to Chedvas alumnae has been shared with me. I trust that, as a person with responsibilities for the emotional and spiritual well being of young women, you have more sense and intelligence than to write the inane letter, and potentially harmful words, that have been ascribed to you. In the spirit of dan lekaf zechus, I trust the letter was not in fact written and sent by you.

    Please know that many are watching carefully to see how you and other administrators will deal with the shameful accusations against M and the psak of the Chicago Beis Din. The allegations are a source of great embarrassment to the world of Torah and a stain on the purity of knesses yisrael.

    I am certain that any letter to alumnae from you would certainly express solidarity with and sympathy for any young women who may have been exposed to danger or harmed at Chedvas or at any Torah institution, even if unbeknownst to you. G-d forbid that the real possibility of abuse and impropriety be ignored or denied. G-d forbid that any young woman would believe – for even a moment – that you or anyone else associated with Chedvas or any other seminary is not 100 per cent supportive of her and her experiences in relation to M, as difficult it may be for you or others to believe.

    Sincerely,

  9. Ear to the Ground says…

    According to some, CBD gave it over to Israel in early June. CBD has the case for a few months by that time.

    then CBS sent out letter in July which was followed by Israel letter….in which many wondered about their statement referencing Meisels agreeing to sell 6 weeks before. Considering the June timing, that makes sense.

    Seems what happened here is that CBD gave it to Israel after CBD approached Gottesman to get Torah Umesorah involved. Torah Umesorah does not operate in Israel so they got R Ahron Feldman involved to go to ISrael.

    Why the sudden mid-July letter from CBD when they had given it to ISrael a month before?

    Here is my theory – CBD expected Israel to investigate perhaps the entire staff at all schools and to do something in a strong manner. Israel seemed fine with getting Meisels out…keeping things quiet and having him agree to sell.

    CBD did not see any action and decided they must act…therefore the letter saying not to attend the schools. Israel was trying to keep schools open and just eliminate Meisels so they quickly responded – it was so important to them that Malinowitz had to sign during shiva.

    at this point, people report big disagreement between CBD and ISrael with many claiming that CBD already gave it over…so they can’t have it back.

    Of course, that is wrong. If CBD gave it over with the understanding that Israel would act and ISrael did not act strongly enough, CBD felt it was sakunas nefoshos.

    Gottesman is very involved – his law firm representing the girls. threatening civil lawsuits.

    Putting all this aside, why doesn’t Israel feel that they should contact all parents of girls who attended these schools so that they are alerted to what went on and can talk to their daughters…perhaps uncover more victims and give them the help they need.

    This is not just about getting rid of Meisels and not saying a word to those affected by him. It is about dealing with the mess that Meisels left which Israel does not want to do.

      • I am astounded that you think beis din jurisdiction is based on some rating like the hp of car engines or the winner on American Idol. Jurisdiction is not based on some absolute ranking. For example the traffic court judge in a hicktown in the smallest state in the union, Rhode Island has jurisdiction of someone arrested for speeding in his town who comes from Los Angeles. The small town judge has more jurisdiction that the supreme court justice of the California Supreme Court or even than the Chief Justice of the United States. In halacha a local court has jurisdiction. This is a psak in a particular case involving at least one Chicago victim. They did not pasken for Israel. They just ruled that people in their area should not send their daughters to the Meisels seminary. Even a Beis din combining Rav Shteinbuch, Rav Shteinman, Rav Cohen of Shas and both Chief Rabbis does not have jurisdiction in Chicago. Secondly this is not the beis din of R. Karlitz. They did not use its letterhead. They did not declare that in writing their psak. Stop trying to steal glory undeserved. R. Shafran is certainly a highly respected dayan, though I believe he erred in this case. he is not the posek hador. R. Shafran is a chosid, and they do not hold from the litvish shitah of posek hador. Among Hasidim, each movement has its own poskim and relies on them. Obviously some are more respected and influential on others. In halachah do you do not have to be the biggest and best. A rav with smichah, especially one with Yadin Yadin, has the power to paskin in his jurisdiction and can contradict the rulings in other jurisdictions, as long as their ruling is consistent with halacha.

        • To state the obvious, the Heter, indeed – the obligation – to spread important information that may save lives, is not dependent on which Beis Din has jurisdiction over the case. If we have credible information – even if it were not from any Beis Din at all – we would be obligated to share the information in order to protect the public.

          The Ruling of the Chicago Beis Din constitutes credible information in my book. Very credible. Especially because the Rabbanim on the Chicago Beis Din specialize in abuse cases.

          • You are being inconsistent. You are claiming Chicago is wrong in continuing to say students should not enroll in the seminary. Then you say “Who are you to say a Beis Din is wrong.”

            You can’t have it both ways.

            • This commenter has been banned from further commenting for trolling, disrupting normal flow by dumping misleading, inaaccurate and inflamatory distractions, over and over, with no acknowledge of the the genuine efforts of others to reply or no adjustment of any sort in his repetitions. Misusing a copy and paste feature does not constitute legitimate participation in a discussion, or even a heated debate.

              Disagreement is fine but play fair and respect the time of others commenting and the readers.

              Yerachmiel Lopin

    • Who is gottesman and how is he involved? Civil law suits are fine but abusers are guilty of serious crimes and should go to jail! Can the victims stay anonymous and put him in jail in Israel under the clergy abuse law??

  10. If anyone is interested in my response to Kahane letter-

    (I wrote this a few hours after he sent it. Supposedly only a number of alumni got this email. Def not everyone. I guess I was “zoche” to receive it, unlike many of my seminary friends.)

    “I will tell you straight out that this email was extremely DISTURBING. I spoke to a number of girls who read it and we were all alarmed and furious. Especially the line about Moshiach. You should have proof read it before sending this out.

    Rabbi Kahane, I have respect for you bc I truly think you are someone who is always looking to do the right thing.

    However, your approach in the Mr. Meisles case is appalling and I do not agree with it. Many consider him a Rodeif and girls must know that there was clear-cut evidence (pictures) of him doing things in the category of zenus. Use your imagination.

    I have spoken directly to the Rabbanim of the Bais Din who are renown Rabbanim from across America. I have done EXTENSIVE research on BOTH sides.

    You cry loshon hara, but I ask you- in all your many many years of teaching, were you not ever mekabel any possible loshon hara that girls confided in you when speaking privately? I’m sure you were. But now you cry loshon hara to an extreme point and close your eyes and ears to an abuser who got away with the sickening things he has done. He is a RODEIF. (And you DID to someone that “the girl was nuts and in love with him and made it all up.” And have no fear, I truly did not record you during our phone call. I would not fall to the lowly place of Meisles, who DID record me once during a PRIVATE conversation I had with him in his office. Sickening. I would never stoop that low).

    Since the beginning of Judaism, there has existed a concept called Machlokes. Rabbi Cohen/Schwartz/Fuerst DO NOT agree with your approach and make it public to all who call them about the guilty accusations and FULL CONFESSION of Meisles for his disgusting actions. And trust me, they know hilchos shmiras ha’lashon like the back of their hands.

    I want to ask you something which you refused to answer over the phone…did girls ever come and complain to you about Mr. Meisles? The answer is YES. I know bc very close friends of mine have told me about how they went to you.

    I also saw that something was devastatingly wrong with our principal and sought to get rid of Meisles, but to no avail. No one listened. No one listened to me, Rabbi Kahane.

    It is people with your approach that let’s abusers get away with abusing. This email is proof. Again, I know you are trying to do the right thing and it is very commendable to see. But you are NOT taking the right approach.

    I highly doubt that Mr. Meisles will “never see the light of day” again.

    I know at least one girl who has responded to your email badly and others who want no part of it. I will repeat what they have said- Rabbi Kahane, please do not act like “G-d’s messenger” and claim to know what and who will bring Moshaich. It is manipulative, corrupt, and incorrect.

    The staff in the schools who knew about complaints by the girls and hid it up, bc they were afraid of Meisles or otherwise. I don’t know.

    I have nothing more to say. Many of us are extremely disappointed and REFUSE to be apart of your mis-guided cult who claims Emes. We laughed at this email and shook in fear at the same time.

    At this point you probably have no respect for me and that is fine. You probably think “oy she has changed so much since seminary.”

    But let me tell you- I have been a role model to so many people during and after seminary. I have not lost an OUNCE of the Yiddishkeit I have gained and I only grew more. People have told me and still continue to constantly praise me about how strong I am. I am absolutely ridged in my avodas Hashem in ways you will never know. I am proactively frum and have dreams of becoming someone great. Do not talk to me about the fact that I “need a shidduch and the malachim in shamayim might talk bad about me to HKB”H” like you did on the phone. I am not in seminary anymore and am ZERO interested in a seminary mussar schmooze. I am living in the real world and I know who I am inside. And TRUST ME, HKB”H knows as well and He has my back.

    So once again, I am not even NEAR interested in helping you “save the world” this time. Nor am I interested in a response email.”

    • I was originally afraid to post it bc I knew I was the very first one to send him such a response..but now that the letter is out, I am not longer alone in this…

      • TruthSeeker, absolutely brilliant letter to Kahane. You are extraordinary, truly. And if there is a g-d in shamayim, he is smiling down at you (excuse the anthropomorphism). Yasher Koach.

    • Truthseeker, wow!! You are amazing!! You are a hero!! May Hashem bless you with lots of simcha and hatzlacha!! Thanks for all of your fantastic posts. You are getting the truth out there. I hope this sick Seminary culture is outed finally and like another commenter said I challenge these manipulative seminary personnel to find real jobs in the real world!! Kol ha kavod!!

  11. I just want to reiterate what I wrote elsewhere: All attempts to cover up abuse will backfire badly, as Dovid Weinberger discovered, and as Meisels and his colleagues are just beginning to discover.

  12. I am curious to hear from Truth what you thought Meisels perhaps had done and what the Bais Din actually told you.

    Why do you think you are the only one who has taken this seriously?

    Can you point to something in your upbringing that enabled you to respond in the correct way?

    • Hi Jack 🙂

      I have posted many many things on this website concerning basically all your questions. Go back to older Meisles articles and maybe it’ll help answer your questions.

      If not, let me know and I’ll try answer your questions..

  13. Reading about the mind games that these seminaries play is absolutely sickening.

    The only seminary I would send my daughter to is the Tiferet Center in Ramat Bet Shemesh. The rabbi there is a very normal guy who doesn’t use these fear tactics to get girls to behave. In fact, he emphasizes normalcy and does not tell them to make crazy changes.

    He told me once that early on he had a teacher who made a statement that they should all aspire to marry kollel guys. Because that’s not part of the seminary’s mehalech, the teacher was not brought back the following year.

  14. Jack is making a few good points. But according to Halacha once a beis din hands it over the original beis din is “les din v’les dayin”. Also is it not strange that rabbi feurst only starting saying that meisels admitted everything after ey came out that the schools are ok meisels was by rabbi feurst for over a month 2 months back so he must have gone back to ey and then called rabbi feurst “I forgot to mention but all the accusations are true ” regardless if there true or not the issue at hand is keeping the seminaries open and not having over a hundred ppl lose their jobs if it can be saved which logically should not be so hard

    • Get your chronology straight. You write, “rabbi feurst only starting saying that meisels admitted everything after ey came out that the schools are ok.”

      The Chicago psak was dated July 10. The EY psak was dated July 13. Chicago ruled “don’t use the Meisels seminaries and then EY jumped and even got a signature of R. Malinowitz who was sitting shiva in the US to protect the seminaries’ business.

      • Again you are off the original Chicago letter just says accusations. Only after ey put out a letter did feurst start calling parents and saying that meisels came clean on everything …. And the original Chicago letter gave the entire din over to ey as it states in the letter not like everyone here is saying only the choshen mishpat

  15. Another question to Truth,

    Have you spoken to Burstyn and why is he pro ISraeli bais din and against CBD? Why does he feel that the main point is getting Meisels out and if that is accomplished as has been reported…then why go after the schools?

  16. A concerned parent wrote this:

    Hi Mr. Kahane,

    I just saw a letter (below) purportedly written by you. I am hoping you did not write this letter and if, in fact, you did not, please disregard what I write below. My response is to the letter writer, be it you or someone else who forged your name.

    Do you really believe that this is a Heaven-sent “nisayon” to you and your girls? Do you really think when a beis din executed one for having relations with an ervah that “lashon hara” forbade us to talk about it? The Torah says “And all of Israel shall hear of it and be afraid!” In this case, aside from all the other issues, I wonder how many times Meisels transgressed the issur kares of niddah? Or did he send them to the mikveh first? Do you really think that protecting him will bring Moshiach? A reliable beis din in Chicago found him guilty and has plenty of proof, and yet you think that this is the nisayon of the day? Well, thank God, I did not send my daughter to hear your sermons in these seminaries! How many lives were ruined? By him? By all the other predators? Perhaps, the nisayon is whether we will come to the aid and show support for those who were abused, who, at the very least, deserve to know that this monstrous pig will not prey on others. If you had asked me for advice, I would have agreed that you should send this letter, but with an entirely different tone. Maybe something like this: “Dear Chedvas Graduates amush, My heart aches for you. My heart aches for all of you who worked so hard on tznius and had your purity ripped away by one who we all trusted. My heart aches and I cry for all of you, even those who were not “physically” abused, but who were exposed to the kind of behavior unbecoming of any Jew. Much of the world is talking about it and much of the world believes it. And a reliable beis din has found him guilty. Do you hear Hashem speaking to us? Hashem is saying Chedvas you be the ones to protect the rest of our Bnos Yisroel. Hashem is giving us another chance for a kinnus. He’s telling us that he listened to us last time, and wants to listen again. But this time the kinnus will not be on a stage, with signs all over Yerushalayim and a video. It will personal, and quiet, and extremely hard. Yes, it is hard to come forward, but if you were abused by Meisels or witnessed his immoral behavior, please step forward, so that all potential molesters and predators will know that they cannot get away with it. I never thought we’d have a chance to do this again. Hashem believes in us, so let’s believe in ourselves. Let’s make chizuk projects to be michazek each other, let’s make buddy systems to ensure that those who came forward are not ostracized or made to feel like dirt for doing so. I’m ready for volunteers to come up with a mehalach how to make sure that on top of all the shame, these girls do not have the extra burden of finding a proper shidduch. I have a sinking feeling we’re going to bring Mashiach. Sources tell us that before Mashiach there will be a big nisayon that will be very hard to pass. Those who do will merit Mashiach. Those who don’t… I’m looking forward to hearing your ideas on how to initiate this program. I’m happy to make it worldwide. With tefilos that Hashem should bring everyone back to His Torah, and help those who cannot control themselves be removed from positions of nisyonos.

    This is the letter you should have written, but for some odd reason did not. Instead you are adding salt to their wounds. I do not know your relationship with Meisels, but from your letter [in general, and your specific fixation on skirt-length] I realize now, more than ever, that it is time for the Gedolei Hador to disallow male teachers in our seminaries.

    Let me also point out that before writing this letter, perhaps you should have contacted the Chicago beis din [who knows more than the Israeli Beis Din, but was fooled into thinking that the Israeli Beis Din would continue their fight]! Maybe, you should have spoken to some of the privates in your army to find out the facts. And, lastly, maybe you have a “sinking” feeling about Moshiach, because of the shame you will experience for having supported a baal aveirah.

    • This is extremely well written.
      Alot of teachers seem to be beating around the bush with this whole situation…telling everyone not to listen and pay attention to whats being said…this explains why, in Meisels 10 years of running a seminary, this finally came out..

  17. “TruthSeeker” wrote the following in her comment on 07/24/2014 at 5:05 pm. She was addressing Rabbi Kahane, referring to a telephone conversation he had with her about not believing what is being said about Meisels: “Do not talk to me about the fact that I ‘need a shidduch and the malachim in shamayim might talk bad about me to HKB”H’ like you did on the phone.”

    I am beginning to think that this way of manipulating people is sick. And it is not just the male teachers that do this kind of thing. I had lots of female teachers who would say things like this to scare the daylights out of us, and manipulate us into doing mitzvos and into not doing aveiros. Is this really what it takes to keep people Frum?

    Yes. I believe it is. And it has much background in our tradition. What else is “Yiras Shomayim” if not a fear of hellfire and brimstone? How many rabbanim have said “Do what I say Hashem wants you to do” or “Don’t do what I say Hashem doesn’t want you to do, or else Hashem will punish you! Be afraid, be very afraid, because Hashem – Supreme Punisher In Chief – WILL punish you either in this world or for all eternity!” Countless.

    These seminary and yeshiva teachers do nothing other than dramatize it all in order to get their charges to “behave.” And the Frum world doesn’t really care how it’s accomplished, as long as all young boys and girls do what they are told. And apparently it works. But now people are seeing HOW it works and the ugly, manipulative tactics employed.

    But don’t blame the Rabbonim or the teachers. Hashem Himself used these tactics in Chumash and Navi. It can be summarized as, “You better behave and do what I say or I’ll punish you!”

    Fear. Be afraid. Be very afraid. It keeps people in line. Sure, it’s manipulative. Sure, it’s simply using scare tactics. But it works.

    • Towards the end of our convo, he knew I was against him. So he pulled out his last and final strategy: the seminary guilt trip. He said “I can tell you’ve lost respect for your teachers in seminary. You’ve really changed…listen, (insert name), you need a shidduch!”

      Me: “huh? What’s that have to do with anything?”

      Him: “you don’t want the malachim in shamayim to speak badly about you to Hashem. You just can’t afford them speaking badly about you up there. You need to get married.”

      Me: *ranting and raving how I am not interested in his seminary lecture and he better keep it to himself*

      The best part…he accused me of recording him. He was very nervous on the phone and refused to speak.

      I can truly say I am near tears…like I said, I was pretty much the first to tell him off about the email. He sent it over a week ago and I had to keep it all to myself. I didn’t want to post it on the blog for diff reasons, so I waited every day for someone to let it out to the world and feel my same feelings. Thank you all who have shared your responses with the blog. It truly makes me feel better that this is out in the open.

      • Reading between the lines I hear something else in the line “You need a shidduch.” I hear an implicit threat that he will smear your reputation so you will not be able to get a shidduch.

        • Interesting…honestly, HIS reputation is pretty ruined now. Meisles schools and staff are branded by a number of names.

          My only fear is that when ppl find out which seminaries I went to, they will automatically question if I was raped.

          As for Kahane- I am not afraid.

      • Absolutely disgusting that he told you “you need a shidduch.” This is a prime example of how Rabbis using girls’ vulnerabilities to get what they want out of them. And Truth, you will be zoche to your basheret in the right time! Don’t let his manipulative words get to you. I’m so appalled he said that.

        Obviously one loses respect for seminary teachers when they cover up for sex offenders, offer no sympathy to the victims, and then use scare tactics to convince other students not to believe the truth.

            • It said it was awaiting moderation… let’s see if this works…

              Absolutely disgusting that he told you “you need a shidduch.” This is a prime example of how Rabbis using girls’ vulnerabilities to get what they want out of them. And Truth, you will be zoche to your basheret in the right time! Don’t let his manipulative words get to you. I’m so appalled he said that.

              Obviously one loses respect for seminary teachers when they cover up for sex offenders, offer no sympathy to the victims, and then use scare tactics to convince other students not to believe the truth.

      • You write Kahane “accused me of recording him. He was very nervous on the phone and refused to speak.”

        If he said the same thing in private and public, he wouldn’t have to worry about being recorded.

        • I think it was Mark Twain who said, “the good thing about always telling the truth is that then you don’t have to remember anything.”

      • This conversation is almost as crazy as the letter. So Hashem gets His information from legions of gossiping angels, like Santa and his elves? “Better watch out?” Does R’ Kahane think you are five?

        And the terrible “shidduch threat.” Rabbi Moshe Soloveitchik in Chicago memorably compared demanding silence for the sake of shidduchim to idolatry, to sacrificing one’s children to Molech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apGcxfhZ01U . If some people don’t want you in their family because you opposed a sexual predator, you don’t want to be in theirs.

  18. It may be a mitzvah to let people know about this stuff, but it is NOT a mittzvah to go on and on building a case against people and talking more and more about this stuff. Is all this talk actually helping anybody? Or is it just a way for everyone to vent about how yidishkeit is full of hypocrites? Everybody knows to stay away, and will keep themselves safe, why keep dragging it out and discussing what isnt l’toeles? Just becuase it is a mitzvah to let things be known dosent mean you have free reign to keep talking.

    • Not so simple. I just spoke to someone who was still undecided about what to do with their daughter. Some Yidden are so well-meaning themselves, call it temimusdik, if you will, that they just can’t wrap their brains around the fact that someone in Meisels’ position could have been such a monster. This needs to be focused on until Elul, unless circumstances change and the CBD gives the go-ahead for parents to send to these sems.

    • This talk will stop being necessary the day the culprits confess and stop, or the day the orthodox leadership decisively does the work of denouncing such culprits and forces them out of all positions of influence. Until then this discussion needs to be continued.

    • unbiased, it sounds like u are biased!
      Yes it is necessary to talk about it, especially for the girls coming forward with proof, and for the parents that need to be warned about these dangerous situations!

      • I’ve been posting quite a bit recently.

        Can’t hold back from putting in my two cents though…

        I’ve spoken to a mother of a perspective student at one of the schools. She mentioned to me that all the info that mothers like her have are the blogs and it’s comments.

        This is nearly their only resource for discussing important issues, updates, and perspectives.

        That being said, I believe what the unbiased is saying is that we should make sure the things on here stay l’toeles.

      • Alum-
        Warning the parents is one thing. Badmouthing online, going in circles and playing the blame game is another.

  19. I strongly believe the whole thing was blown up! It was given a term ” unwanted sextually contact.” As a former student at a Meisels school I can confidently tell you that Rabbi Meisels had no sexual contact with any girl. He may have kissed or hug a girl as his emotions overtook him, while hearing the difficult challenges the girl went through. But he had neither sex with a girl, nor did he molest a girl. So why don’t you put the truth out there? Write exactly what he did! It will sound better then what is being written about him until now! Also with the truth parents will able to decide for themselves the future educational decision for their daughter.
    With this said I personally feel there is no threat in sending your daughter to Pninim, Keser Chaya, Binas, or Chedvas. The staff there devote their heart and souls to help their girls. They are doing Avodas Hakodesh. (Holy G-dly work) After this exposion of Rabbi Meisels actions, there is no need to fear he will do anything again! He learnt his lesson loud and clear! In truth I believe it was an unplanned, emotional action. We all make mistakes. It happens that our emotions get the better of us! Please seek the truth, and don’t jump to judge. Think about it honestly not emotionally!
    May Hashem give us all clarity to be able to make good decisions, which will IY”H leand to the comming of Mashiach-where we will be zoche to the ultimate clarity,closeness to Hashem, and the truth!

    • You write, ” He may have kissed or hug a girl as his emotions overtook him.”

      You sound like you are trying to hard to defend Meisels’ innocence. Most of all you are trying to hard to say, lets minimize it all, with all sorts of arguments because I dont want any consequences for Meisels.

    • I think R’ Meisels should clarify that on his own-to all of his students and followers, as to avoid more speculation. That would be the only thing that would stop all these conversations.

    • Were you there 24/7? How do you know he kissed and hugged girls? That alone is usser! You really think that’s all he did and victims are lying?? Why are you defending him? I’m guessing you work for M. If you are ao “frum” why don’t you have some faith that your parnassa can come from working at an honorable place and stop defending M?!!!

      • No where does it say in chicago’s letter that they only gave it over to ey for choshen mishpat .just the opposite they state how there are accusations against meisels and the choshuv beis din of ey will be taking care of the case. Which means for all aspects including if the accusations are true if the seminaries can open …..

    • So many issues with this comment. I thought all the Meisel’s groupies were gone by now…

      1. You write “I can confidently tell you that Rabbi Meisels had no sexual contact with any girl. He may have kissed or hug a girl as his emotions overtook him.” You say you are CONFIDENT that he had no sexual contact, and then admit that he probably hugged or kissed a girl. Last time I checked rambam and other meforshim say that chibuk and nishuk is derech chibah – meaning that it is sexual contact and not platonic – and not allowed between two people who are not married to each other. (Again, your failure to recognize this shows how these school are just brain washing machines, and focus no value on ACTUAL torah and halacha). So even in your first argument – you completely contradict yourself. If you were a mother and you found out that the princpial of your daughter’s seminary KISSED your daughter would you just say “oh it’s okay, his emotions overtook him.”? I really hope not, if so I am scared for your children. Do you really think? It’s okay to engage in physical contact with someone who is not your wife because of your emotions? That’s why we have the gedarim of yichud and negiah!

      2. You write “But he had neither sex with a girl, nor did he molest a girl.” Clearly – you have not spoken to any victim or the Chicago Beis Din. You claim to be open-minded in your username, but it’s obvious you have not called up Rabbi Fuerst to find out that your beloved “rabbi” did these things.

      3. “Why don’t you put the truth out there” – protecting innocent victims – why shoudl the world know of all the torture M put them through? So many people keep saying they want to know all the details? How sick. We are supposed to be frum Jews and guard ourselves from arayot and people are demanding to know the intimate details of how M defiled girls? Don’t we have any sense of tznius? The truth is written in the CBD’s letter. There were allegations of unwanted sexual contact, the beis din interviewed many girls and M himself (re-read the letter) and determined it was UNSAFE to send girls there.

      4. “I personally feel there is no threat” – that’s your opinion. Many of us know from first hand accounts that teachers in this school covered for M and convinced victims it was there fault and that they should keep their mouths shut. How on earth is it not a threat to send girls to a school where teachers care more about their parnassa then the well-being of the girls. Additionally, Kahane’s most recent letter shows that he uses scare tactics and manipulative rhetoric to get what he wants from his students. I find that threatening, and would never want my daughter in an environment like that.

      5. “In truth I believe it was an unplanned, emotional action.” When several girls come forward, from different school and different cities, from different years, and all repeat that this man engaged in unwanted sexual contact with them – it’s not unplanned. It’s called being a predator.

    • If you insist on a hush-hush in a situation with a raglayim ledavar and a beis din against your view, you just may be the emotionally driven one.

    • In response to “Let’s be openminded”:

      You make it sound like hugging or kissing students is no big deal. Aside from the Torah prohibition, do you have any idea how much long-term damage results when an authority figure does these things to a student or congregant?

      Moreover, you write that Rabbi Meisels “had no sexual contact with any girl…nor did he molest a girl.” You are obviously not aware that hugging and kissing are in fact sexual acts and types of molestation.

      Instead of proving Meisels’ innocence, you have succeeded in highlighting your own questionable moral values and your lack of knowledge about the subject of sexual abuse.

  20. Lopin,

    Rabbi burstyn is saying that the CBD brought him in to the case and that they do not have jurisdiction any more because they gave it to israel BD.

    • Once more, Chicago determined that there was unwanted sexual contact. They continue to discourage people to attend these seminaries. What does any of that have to do with Israel? The only purpose of the Israeli BD was to oversee the sale and to hear the Choshen Mishpot issues related to refunds.

      CBD and Israel clearly disagree over the safety of the schools, but it is obvious to anyone, especially after reading the crazed rantings of Kahane, that nobody can send their daughters to a seminaries run by people who are clearly far from being sane.

      • even CBD is saying now that the schools are safe since they allowed a sale to Yarmush and R meisels no longer has anything to do with them

      • And they never determined read there letter it says accusations only after ey came out pro did gottesman make feurst take the case back which halachically is impossible and call 290 parents at 11 at night saying meisels came fwd all is true and evil. Kind of strange that after talking to meisels for 2 months chicago just said accusations and only when ey says kosher does Chicago go crazy !

    • Rumor is that after rav zev Cohen who is the other Dayan from Chicago discussed the case with his rebbi harav hopfer from Baltimore he is now no longer taking part in the Chicago smear campaign Can anyone confirm this ?

  21. Dont Understand:

    You are d false.

    Chicago still says its not safe.You have no proof and they have not sent anything out saying girls can go to the schools.

    I spoke to the rabbaim today of chicago. The PSAK is STILL ON and Chicago will stand firm for the safety of BNOS YISRAEL.

  22. Kahane is beyond DISGUSTING.
    He should not teach girls and he obviously does not care about the kedushah of jewish girls. And he does not care about his students safety.
    All he cares about is his money.
    I hope Aish fires him
    He is truly a disappointment to the Jewish people. He is sicker then PIG M.

    • Yaeli, you are being too optimistic about Aish. There strength in kiruv arises from mastering manipulative techniques. The new development is their people have moved into the seminary business and used the same techniques on Bais Yaakov girls who are more vulnerable because unlike the secular Jews, they are not used to thinking critically about the positions of rabbis.

  23. Just read one of Kosher Ham’s links.

    I can’t help but say-

    I am still in disbelief that the school let him resign and not fired. And that main staff like Kahane are not apologizing etc. Amongst other things.

    For those reasons, I am honestly surprised parents are still sending their daughters to these schools.

    I hope they have an inspiring year with Kahane the sex-offender defender.

    If your daughter comes home and cries that s/o touched her (chas v’shalom) and that she told her teachers and no one listened, you have no one to blame but yourself (I don’t think abuse will happen again. I’m simply making a point of Kahane’s and other priority= NOT the safety of the students. Only the kavod of the rabbis).

    I have no clue how these girls will be able sit and listen to his shiurim knowing who he defended. I am SURE students will bring up the subject of Meisels during the year.

    I honestly cannot imagine other seminaries behaving the same embarrassing way Meisles schools have. And I have YET to post that unprofessional email I got from one of their secretaries.

    (Oh- and they have yet to take him off from the staff list on their school website. #justsaying)

    • Yes it is shocking. But their entire position is denial. They don’t even officially admit Meisels is a menuval. they swear up and down, everything and everybody else is swell. It is a toxic culture which may be beyond repair. The heart of seminary is its personnel. Their heart is hardened like Pharaoh.

  24. I know nothing about the case, other than what I read here. However, as a so called chareidi Jew, who’s lived all his life among chareidim, I find it difficult to believe that frum teachers and frum staff would tell a girl that it’s her fault that she was molested, or would otherwise cover up molestation. Individuals, perhaps, but that many people would overlook the issur of kereiva l’arayos and the danger to girls? Idealistic people in chinuch? It just doesn’t fit in with my life experience with chareidim. And that Rabbi Bursztyn, whom I know, would participate in that cover up? Just makes no sense

    • >I find it difficult to believe that frum teachers and frum staff would tell a girl that it’s her fault
      >that she was molested, or would otherwise cover up molestation.

      And yet I have lived my whole life in the same world and I don’t have the same difficulty. I see it all the time.

      Here is just one example of a case in Israel I looked into years ago where many educators did the same:

      News in Brief by Danna Harman, Dan Izenberg, Jerusalem Post Staff, Itim
      The Jerusalem Post – April 27, 1999

      Attorney-General Elyakim Rubinstein decided yesterday not to prosecute former Ashkenazi chief rabbi Avraham Shapira and former NRP MK and current NRP candidate Haim Druckman for failing to take action against the former head of Yeshivat Netiv Meir, Rabbi Ze’ev Kopolevitch. Kopolevitch has been indicted on charges of forcing 19 of his students to engage in homosexual relations with him.

      Police investigated allegations that some of the students had complained about Kopolevitch to Shapira, the head of the Mercaz Harav Yeshiva, and Druckman, who was head of the B’nei Akiva yeshivot at the time, and that they had not passed on the complaints to the authorities. Police recommended prosecuting the two rabbis. Rubinstein did not provide the reasons for his decision not to do so. Dan Izenberg

      • thank you yet again for contributing your research and your knowledge of the history of abuse and cover-ups in the orthodox world.

        And this of course the same R. Druckman who kept using Motti Elon as a teacher after he was convicted of molesting a boy. In spite of that, Druckman is the head of the prestigious religious-Zionist Bnai Akiva network of schools.

    • Just for the sake of being factual- I do not think (as far as I know-perhaps I’m wrong) that any of the teachers knew it got to physcial touch.

      There were indeed many complaints to teachers about Meisles’ inappropriate/flirty/non-kosher personality. But I do not think any staff ever heard complaints of touching.

      I don’t know if the staff is blaming the girls for being “ruined” and saying “you wanted it”. They are instead keeping their mouths shut.
      But yes, they are certainly “covering it up” right now. It is sad and a reality no one wants to face. It breaks the foundation ppl rely on in life..

      • If they couldn’t notice the clues of grooming, and couldn’t understand the complaints of students they are incompetent as educators. However, in my experience with similar situations the problem is usually fear and timidity rather than obliviousness.

          • Inconceivable, over so many years, and multiple cases of abuse (we do not know how many, but the Chicago B’D’ has some clue) that direct complaints, if not shmu’ot chazakot, did not reach the ears of multiple teachers. inconceivable in a small intimate erliche yiddishe community. inconceivable. any and all teachers who had even a shemetz shel safek re meisels behavior, are complicit, and should never ever be trusted again, in any possible sale of the yeshivot. a sham, a scam. In any conceivable religious or secular court claim negdam, they are complicit. So, amongst those who seemed like cult members amongst the 650 comments on day 2 or 3 of this post, many might have been terrified teachers, afraid of losing their jobs, but much more afraid of any court cases of any suggestion of complicity.

            . As well they should be. sacrificing the souls of b’not yisrael, to save their own parnassah. Hideous, digusting, multiple guilty people beyond the minuval creep meisels, no way in the world that there were not multiple others, teachers, who suspected, or more likely knew, per students, directly, traumatized students,, of his many transgressions. They expletive sold their souls for their parnassah. NLOL, their husbands kollel was not enough l’pharnes otam???? of course not of course this is speculation re motivation. but re knowledge of multiple other staff members, well, it is inconceivable that various others did not know.
            No parent should ever send a child abroad, unless they are in virtually daily contact with such child. and male teachers and hanhalah at a girls seminary is a recipe for abuse. Caveat emptor.

  25. My charismatic sem rabbi was Meir Pogrow at Michlala. He had all the girls after him and we wondered why he left after a short time. He was brilliant. Yet I cannot find him doing much of anything. Does anyone know what he is doing or why he left michlalah? Whenever I asked I got a strange silence.

    • Posting for a friend:
      I was a “Pog” (Rabbi Pogrow’s club of admirers) at Michlala and have followed Rabbi Pogrow and his career since then. He is certainly a charismatic genius and then seemed destined for high places. He went on from Michlala to Aish’s Kollel program in Jerusalem, and then started another Aish Kollel in Austin Texas. He has counselled many girls over the years and this seems to have landed him in trouble. He is now running a one-man Master Torah program. My experiences were very troubling and I would recommend keeping young impressionable women away from him.

      • He was teaching at YULA ’93-’95.

        Anyone know anything about his mastertorah.com. Fancy website but I don’t hear from any events.

        • LA Girl – Master Torah is Rabbi Meir Pogrow Inc. It’s his recorded shiurim and text-cramming techniques. According to the IRS he’s doing rather nicely out of it: http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/26-3834174/mastertorah.aspx

          Large travel expenses: anyone knows where Rabbi Pogrow goes, considering his dearth of events?

          Also, Rabbi Pogrow is trading solo these days, apparently because of his difficult personality and, as BrachaA mentions, a reputation for breaking boundaries with females.

          • if anyone has information or complaints about anything in regards to this type of abuse you should get in touch with david morriss from the magen society he deals with predators and abuse in beit shemesh it happens to be that this person lives there hemight have some more knowledge .the main problem with most or all of these cases it is very hard for any victim to come forward because they know it will be their word against this frequently mind control charismatic brilliant individual so they get scared to report anything to anyone but if through this way everyone reports what they knowabout these people then each individual will realize that when it will come down to reporting others will join so as they say mitzvah gorreres mitzvah pleaseuse these tools to join together and save klal yisroel i think david morriss wrote an artcle on tzedek tzedek if not you can reach through e mail of the magen society hatzlacha to all

  26. what is going on here?? we are in the midst of the 3 weeks, mourning for the Bait Hamikdash which we know was destroyed for…SINAS CHINAM. Exactly what this blog is allowing. Since when has it become okay to slander especially when no one knows the whole truth except Hashem. How could you bring Rabbi Kahane into the picture saying that he’s at fault as well? What is happening to our nation? We are crying out to Hashem for the safety of our soldiers and Eretz Yisrael while simultaneously hurting His children??? I can’t even fathom how people could make such rude comments about things they don’t actually know what they are talking about. Where has the arrogance come from- believing that because you read the news and you spoke to the BD, you know EVERYTHING that did and is happening? Why are people so quick to jump to conclusions- since when did the mitzvah of Dan Lchaf Zechus become not applicable? Do you realize that a blog like this could literally ruin the lives of innocent people who are actually your own brothers?? I’m ashamed that our nation- Am Yisrael- a nation of love, care, and concern for others has reached this point.

    • “AmYisroel”-

      I will not pretended to me calm right now and I do not normally enjoy ‘bashing’ comments on this blog but-

      You are embarrassing yourself.

      I will not waste my typing energy on you.

      You should be ASHAMED of yourself for every single word you just posted here.

      Until you get a bit educated, come back, or better yet- DON’T.

      #ThruthSeeker

    • The question is whether or send to send our holy daughters to such a sem. At that point, it becomes VERY important to know just what we are dealing with. If someone has a din of Rodef (and I’m not saying Kahane does, but certainly Meisels does, at least before everyone knew) then it’s a mitzvah l’farsem.

      Or do you want to be frum in hilchos lashon hara but meikel with the kedusha of our daughters. It could well be (based on the as yet non-retracted psak of the CBD) that sending a daughter to one of these sems is an act of cruelty. But you’re focusing on the lashon hara aspect, rather than seeing what’s really important.

      You’re ashamed because you don’t know important from unimportant. You don’t know up from down. And by the way, I challenge you to find even a teeny bit of sinas chinam around here. That would be baseless hatred. I am fairly certain that Meisels has a din of a rasha, and that it’s at least mutar to hate him. He did evil things. But you come here and lecture everyone else about spreading word of the continued threat of the sems, as if you know more halacha, or somehow have a superior point of view. And you don’t.

    • AmYisrael?:
      People like you AmYisrael? will only be satisfied with a videosurveillance tape. I have only three words to describe your comment;
      busha, cherpa, and shonda. Shame on you. You have your work cut out for Yom Hakippurim.

  27. He does not have a din of a ‘rodef’ yet…Labelling him as a rasha is extreme, For those who believe he is ‘innocent’ , the halacha is you MUST be choshed him ..why take a risk with your daughters? Be reasonable, not extreme…but do the right thing, dont take a chance with you child.

    • I do not understand why a serial sexual predator would ” not have a din of a ‘rodef’ yet.”
      I agree that the term “rasha” for a predator is inappropriate. A more appropriate term would be “rasha me’rusha.” Sexual predators are evil incarnate.

        • A technical point, but the whole reason why this went public was because he has a din of rodef. He has the potential to harm more people than he already has. In halacha, the language is the he’s a mazik on the rabbim. This is very serious, but CBD would not have taken things this far if he’s not a rodef.

          As to rasha, I must admit that it’s my personal opinion. It seems very logical to me that anyone who harms so many people is certainly a rasha. It’s pashut. But I have to be honest that I didn’t hear it from CBD

        • “The lady doth protest too much.”
          A few points:
          1) I never labelled anyone. I merely said I don’t understand. Until someone can explain to me otherwise, I won’t understand this..
          2) I stand by my assertion that a sexual predator is a rasha me’rusha. I heard this categorization from a major posek. Such people are evil.

  28. A perfect example of someone who can’t see the forest for the trees. What skewed priorities! How cruel to preach about skirt length and lashon hara, when girls are traumatized, their lives devastated, from having actual sexual encounters with their trusted rabbi. How backward to obsess about “silence,” when silence is exactly what enables abuse to continue! How twisted to claim to represent the will of Hashem while being so off target! Hashem wants His daughters to be safe and respected. Hashem wants justice, protection, and healing. This man’s agenda is clearly the opposite.

  29. unlike most if not all of you, we are in Israel. We are able to interview people involved and get the real story.
    fundamentally, Meisels did get out of line sexually….. with one girl who testified. No one else has come forward with a first hand story.
    Kehane did not know about this, hence he could not be an enabler.
    We have spoken to principals of other seminaries who know the inside story, and had in fact negotiated to buy the schools, but Yarmush’s price was the most solid.
    We are not defending Kehane for his silly letter, nor or we defending his lack of experience of education and sechel in this matter. But he knew nothing.
    If you are not personally involved you could not and would not have spent the many, many hours that we did to get to the bottom of this, but we are finally relaxed and tranquil, will send our daughter there,

    • Who on earth told you kahane had no idea? He didn’t even know about Meisles inappropriate approaches to ‘getting close to girls?’

      I bet Kahane told you this himself. I spoke to him on the phone- Kahane has done atrocities in so many ways, firstly by refusing to apologize to the victims for not protecting them (ppl DID complain), and by allowing him to resign, by showing no sympathy, and by refusing to ‘talk l”h’.

      It seems to me that you do not want to lose out on the $ you shelled out so you are trying to convince yourself that it’s okay to send your daughter there.

      Either that or Kahane used his gift of words to convince you of things…

      • FYI- there was more than one girl who has come up with legit stories and cases against Meisles.

        Why do we need to repeat ourselves so many time? It was NOT one girl.

        Oh- and I wouldn’t take anything Kahane says as reliable- he never even called the CBD when I spoke to him. Never. Refused to.

        Sounds pretty reliable, eh? Make your own judgment.

    • What a bald-faced lie. The VICTIMS are in America. What does being in Israel have to do with anything? How could you ascertain any facts by being is Israel? Is lying all the Meisels defenders have left?

    • You state- “Meisels did get out of line sexually….. with one girl who testified. No one else has come forward with a first hand story.”

      That’s pretty disgusting of you to put down even ONE claim of sexual misconduct by Meisles. You seem to think “it’s only one girl. Not more than one. Everyone calm down. Not so bad.”

      • Actually, she was just saying that since it was (according to her) only one girl, it is very reasonable that R’ Kahane would not be aware of it, as it was (according to her) an isolated incident. She did not suggest at all that it is “not so bad.”

    • The Chicago Bais Din knows more than you in Israel or anyone here in America. They stated that it was more than ‘1’ …get your facts straight ‘neve’

    • Kahane didn’t know? According to you, Kahane was the only person on the planet who didn’t know. The only person making the asinine claim that Meisels the rat was INNOCENT. The question is not what he knew about the claims of the many girls (yes, there were many!) but rather how he responded over the years if and when girls approached him with claims against Meisels. That’s the only real question that needs to be answered. If he was approached and did nothing, or worse, made the girls feel guilty, then Kahane is an enabler and should be treated only marginally better than the big rat Meisels.

  30. I am a therapist, frum, no not just frum but FFB. I am American born and bred, practicing in Israel. I am not a newcomer comer to Yeshivos and Seminaries, like I have said I grew up in the mainstream frum American world (rare among therapists, and even more rare among mechanchim in Israel. But I write this as a regular yid, who happens to have inside exposure to the mess.

    I pride myself in having gone to Yeshivos and my family in every direction too. There may some due criticism for all mosdos, and lots for specific ones, but by and large they do devoted and hard work for our children, as was done for us.
    Firstly, let us acknowledge this; the vast majority of people working in chinuch are devoted and honest people, who are moser nefesh for a praiseworthy goal. Those who don’t live up to this standard, who are not honest and fair and even worse abusive are the exception. Thank you to all the special true mechanchim!

    Now, yes with heartbreak, we must admit not all, and yes it is becoming more and more common, are people we should trust our children, teens or adults too.

    As a therapist, I often deal with such cases, of neglect and outright abuse of all types. Whether the issue stems from parents, friends, strangers or the teachers themselves, too often mechanchim and even rabbonim are implicit. It is simply rare to find people who will stand up for the truth, who are not afraid of it. Who will get up and put down their foot to protect and prevent abuse.

    At the end of the day, adults are responsible for themselves, people need to fight for their rights, fairly and honestly. Parents are responsible for their children, and as such all I can say, is that it is FRIGHTNING how foolish and willfully blinded people can be when making decisions on where and why it is safe to go places.

    (It causes great harm when so many innocent are accused, often by rumors or clearly non-reliable people and their lives ruined without fair and honest investigation. Please, lets be wary of unconfirmed rumors, and be very careful who we really can trust to say one was guilty. Ironically the guilty usually get away and the innocently framed get nailed and shattered).

    For many of us in the field this specific expose came as no surprise, nor is it the first time such ‘problems’ were discovered in seminaries. The writing has been on the wall for years! People in the know make no secret of the questionable situations which come up constantly for young impressionable girls away from home. The options include but are not limited to; hashkafic crumkeit (the majority of seminaries proudly entertain all types of ‘Jewish thought’ -little do parents knew what their child will be exposed to), sexual education -undesired, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, manipulating for egotistic reasons, peer abuse, dangers of all sorts from within and without seminaries, and more. Every year a number of girls learn the hard way. Not a small number, I myself have a connection with a few dozen a year! And I obviously do not come across all. (I am not only referring to abuse, but also other situations, such as girls getting a lot deeper than they planned or their parents can imagine with other people, etc..).

  31. So, pray tell, Who are we relying on to protect the young and dumb? How do we expect young trusting girls to see through delicate guises?! I hate to say it but the recent letter from one unscrupulous ‘menahel’ forces me to cry out! To cry out with the pain of those precious souls we fool ourselves these people are protecting, I have seen too much to be quiet!

    We don’t need to be savvy to realize that a person who abuses, is rarely a one time crime. Common sense (and statistics) tell us that those who abuse their powers of charisma and stature are generally repeat offenders. It doesn’t compare to a one time drunk attacker. And yes, if a Beis Din of the stature and worldliness of the Chicago beis din, stood up and made a hard statement after months of investigation, clearly only a fool will still be unsure. If they stood up to the danger of taking on a man is not a nobody, a tough guy from powerful background close to home for themselves, this wasn’t a joke. And like I noted, for those in the now the writing has been on the wall for a while.

    Just in case anyone could still believe no one knew something was amiss, that not one staff member of this person wasn’t privy to real life stories or grounded suspicions is ludicrous.

    Most people shuddered when they read the words of Kahane, one of the henchmen. No this is not his fist blatant attempt to cover-up evil for his own advancement. The same manipulative; “you are the saviors, You are my army, Mashiach is coming I have inside info, just follow me” is standard methods for narcissistic manipulators.

    This year there was case involving a student in Kahane’s ‘care’. Nothing that would have implicated him, it actually had no connection to him nor did he bear any responsibility for it. His only connection was that he knew for a while something was desperately wrong and not only did he not deal with it properly, he made sure to control the situation and use it to manipulate the student to remain silent. The name of the seminary stood before him, sic. Somehow the cover-up ended up at the door of one the leading English Rabbonim. This Rov in turn bravely didn’t just go to the next caller, like others might but begged a close student of his, a Rabbi and Therapist trained specifically on abuse, to help and evaluate the situation. Warning he Rov of the working of these ‘mechanchim’, but infuse with a sense of duty, not to allow these people to continue to push peoples pain under the carpet, they took it on.

    Sure enough it was soon confirmed that there was a real problem, and worse the seminary and others were exasperating it. At first he repeatedly stated, that proper help was expensive and not his problem (this is called a caring mechanech? “who cares” its not my problem. But he adamantly refused to concede and allow the proper services to be offered. When he saw his sweet assurances that he knew all and was taking care of were not being accepted due to there absolute falsity.

    As soon as this ‘Kahane’ realized his sweet talk didn’t work, he went on an all out battle against this therapist. Literally threatening him that he will ruin his name, reputation, harm his family, frame him, etc. “you are young and know nothing about the real world, if I let people now you are making trouble, your whole life will be ruined. You’ll be done, for your own good look away” All along kahane swore that anyone but himself would only cause damage to the victim, only he knew (by prophesy we can assume, same channel as ‘sinking feeling mashiach is coming bec of him’) how to deal with it and what was good for her. Go wonder why he threatened, but refused to prove the proper care was actually being offered. Can we believe a word from such a source?
    Worse yet, this Rabbi and Therapist had confirmed (through myself and knowledge from my cases)and in consultation with leading Mental Health Professionals and Rabbonim that Mr. Kahane himself was fully implicit and perhaps more.

    I still can hardly believe it but so recklessly and foolishly was he determined to cover-up and ‘be in control’, that Kahuna went so far as to summon the police to the home office of the therapist in middle of the night on supposed fear of an endangered missing student! (At times, therapists see clients in safe conditions at off-hours, especially in delicate student situations so as to avoid unwarranted attention and danger from others. As protocol, such sessions are recorded and a witness remains throughout to maintain safety of the therapist and client.) Of course the police, were quite suspicious being called down to a certified session and having been directed exactly where to find an adult student ‘missing’. And the attempted threat to the therapist backfired as the police interrogated the student, worried for her safety in school. It turned out that she had actually arrived directly from Kahuna’s home after her having summoned her there at night and she had told him she was going to the therapist. Luckily, the therapist was able to use connections in police to assure them there was no immediate danger with kahuna. No, not for kahuna and his seminaries business, but for the sake of the frightened young girl.

    I can still hear the worry and pain in the voice of this special therapist, when I was woken by him to consult in middle of the night, he was sick to the stomach at the cruelty this mechnaech had shown to a suffering young child crashing her only safety and subjecting her to the horrifying experience. He cried as he described how she had collapsed with fear when the police arrived and begged in tears that she not be left alone to return to seminary. (A kind frum officer and the therapist kindly escorted visibly trembling back to her dorm.)

    Immediately, kahane used his full manipulative skills to scare the student away from seeking help or getting guidance from anyone. And Meisels, the owner of the seminary himself worked hard to make sure the police and others stay away.

    When attempting to have other seminary collogues and some Rabonim assist him in intimidating and threatening the therapist from steering her to help, kahane realized that not everyone was fooled by his charisma, and more importantly that this particular therapist had strong connections to back him in Mental Health circles, Rabbinic circles and power centers that be. Only then did he drop the offensive. In the end, due to the reckless endangerment he was subjecting this student to, after consultation with myself and other collogues we were forced to step away (I must note, this brave therapist, made one last attempt at personal financial expense to circumvent the monsters and not abandon the victim, though he will never get credit for his act or even be able to see the results). I don’t know if this girl will ever realize how much trouble ‘this loving father to his chedvas students’ caused her.

  32. The words of his Folly https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/kahanes-folly/ sicken me to no end, having closely seen how narcissistic this man can be, how dangerous people of his like are.
    He has not and will not offer to help his students receive help from this scandal, he will do whatever it takes to ensure his position and protect himself by crushing any attempts to open the box and look around.

    As is evidenced in several places firsthand, he wasn’t unaware, girls complained to him many times. On young woman described in detail phone conversation she had with Kaahane. I can attest to the truth, as the conversation transcribed is so perfectly his style it could not have been made up by someone who doesn’t know him. -though that doesn’t prove its his words, it does show it is a student.

    To all the students of his out there, and of Meisles and others, all I can repeat is the words of one of your peers; “Do not talk to me about the fact that I “need a shidduch and the malachim in shamayim might talk bad about me to HKB”H” (-threat from Kahane) like you did on the phone. I am not in seminary anymore and am ZERO interested in a seminary mussar schmooze. I am living in the real world and I know who I am inside. And TRUST ME, HKB”H knows as well and He has my back.”

    As was mentioned in some the discussions; Kahane is not a representative of the proper Yeshiva world. Thankfully we can say his approach to human pain, to Torah, to teaching yiddishkeit and to self proclaiming himself an mechnaech and General of his army, are the products of our yeshiva system. As is often the case, the ones who live and work through false manipulation are the kasha ksapchas. The people who come from elsewhere and tout themselves as great mechanchim, baalei haskafah and experts. The same ideals and goals which taint the education the slyly fill young girls with, tell them to cover and confront anything which gets in their way, it is not just a slight, that he can publicly dismiss the clear and public decisions of Chicago’s most senior Rabbonim or in the above incident Yerushalyims senior Poskim.
    These people are represented of Torah MiSinai, their strength in kiruv arises from mastering manipulative techniques. The new development is their people have moved into the seminary business and used the same techniques on Bais Yaakov girls who are more vulnerable because unlike the secular Jews, they are not used to thinking critically about the positions of rabbis.

    The four seminaries involved in this scandal, were heavily staffed by out-of-the-box teachers and Rabbis. Is there a shortage of normal, ffb, who can give over the same chinuch and haskafah we guarded for generations? There not. For some reasons, Measles chose, as do many, to surround himself with pawns, people with their own agendas who would not wish to ruin their own careers and agendas with some bothersome incidents. Of course, he forgot to mention in either letter that he feels sorry and wants to help any victims of his partner, of course he will do all he can regardless of the facts to silence with holy reasoning any whistleblowers.

    Parents, girls, be careful! Don’t just allow the human desire to imagine all is fine to fool you. We need to be careful. If it is necessary to send a young girl far away on her own, we need to be very wary of whose care we entrust her!

    As far as the letter from Kahane, please use your sechel, there is nothing more I can say than:
    Manipulative, false, corrupt, disgusting and scary.

    • Hurt for others – those were very interesting posts. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

      Is there mandatory reporting for therapists in Israel as there is for therapists in the USA? If you were working in the USA (and you were licensed in the USA) you would be required by law to report any sexual abuse of a minor to the police. Is that the law in Israel as well? What about reporting Rabbinic or clergy abuse of a non-minor. My understanding is that in Israel it is a criminal offence for a Rabbi to abuse his position. But is it mandatory for a therapist to report those crimes?

  33. There does a exist mandatory reporting in Israel, though the rules are different than in the states. However, as always, this only includes instances where there exists substantial evidence not just undercurrents. Often, a therapist may ‘know’ but have no proof.
    Most anyhow, just like in the states, will not report it. They are scared, and not for no reason.

    • 1 – Does a therapist need any more proof than a client talking about the abuse?

      2 – I wasn’t aware that most frum therapists are afraid to report abuse to the authorities. This is terrible.

      3 – Do you know for a fact that this goes on in the USA and not just in Israel?

      4 – Did it ever happen that a frum therapist DID report abuse to the authorities in the USA (or Israel) and there were then repercussions against that therapist? If not, why would therapists be afraid to do so?

      I am NOT talking about this being in Chassidish circles, but rather in Yeshivish circles. Chassidish circles get much more bent out of shape about the “issur” of “mesirah.” Besides, there aren’t many Chassidish therapists so it’s hardly relevant (notwithstanding people who call themselves therapists but are unlicensed, like Weberman).

      • There are many frum therapists in the US who violate mandated reporting requirements. I have heard quite a few such stories.

        There are other frum therapists who seek a psak from a rav before reporting and will violate the law if told to by a rav.

        Then there are frum therapists who are adamant about fulfilling mandated reporting requirements. One of them told me she recently got a call from a rabbi seeking a referral for a child who was sexually abused in his neighborhood on the other side of the NYC from this therapist, “but she has to be someone who doesn’t report.” My therapist source told me, “I said to him, I don’t send patients to therapists who don’t report abuse.” Click!

        The standard for reporting is usually “reasonable suspicion.” Obviously a patient reporting actual abuse experienced, witnessed or directly heard about qualifies for reporting. Beyond that you are in the realm of professional judgement.

      • A religous female therapist tried to stop a male therapist that she heard testimony about from a few women and was stopped by a head of a major baalas teshuav institution. This therapist signed a letter in front of Dr Levitt the head of neve yerushalayim family therapy program and in witness of Rabbi Dovid Ostrov a well known mechanech and posek in har nof. The letter of commitment was that he will never deal with woman in any chinuch or therapy or teaching. Well that was in aug 2008. He gives shiurim in tez Stone to woman and is providing so called therapy to woman and girls in givat shaul. Anyways the woman therapist who tried to stop hin 6 yrs ago almost lost her parnassa. So it is not easy to say the least.

  34. I can’t believe there is even a discussion here. Run for your lives. First and foremost open a seminary with trustworthy mechaanchos (and they will hire Rabbonim as they see fit)… Kahane – aided and abetted, accomplice etc. meedelo meecha…
    Run, save your daughters!

    A. Mechanech

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