אלו דברים שאין להם שיעור*
חמרות לה”ר ורכילות ותירוצים בעד מוסדותיהם ופרנסתם נגד הנזוקין
אלו דברים שאוכלים פירותיהם בעוה”ז ועונשם קימת לעוה”ב
Many of Elimelech Meisels’ defenders dwell on how his victims violated prohibitions in halacha pertaining to yichud and negiah (seclusion between unrelated adults of the opposite sex or touch of a sexual nature outside of marriage).
This victim blaming distracts the public from the ruling of the Special Beis Din of Chicago that, “Students in these seminaries are at risk of harm and it does not recommend that students attend these seminaries at this time.” Their ruling is based on their investigation of “improper conduct including unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature between Elimelech Meisels and students.”
The Chicago Beis Din (CBD) is not endorsing Meisels’ victims to take over the seminaries. Thus their mistakes are completely irrelevant to the issue. Moreover, not every victim was complicit through violations of yichud or negiah. In some instances Meisels put his hands on girls and they resisted or fled. In other instances he misled them about facts or the halachah pertinent to whether a specific location was secluded and other issues.
I have talked to a number of victims of manipulative, charismatic, rabbinic abusers like Meisels, Boruch Lanner, and Dovid Weinberger. Contrary to stereotypes, some were targeted because they were very naïve “good girls.” Every last one is full of regret for their complicity and would never repeat their mistakes. They just wish that their educations had prepared them for manipulators. Their problem was giving too much credence to rabbinic authority. Nobody taught them how to spot a charlatan or be able to say, “Buzz off; I don’t care if you’re a rabbi; I smell a rat.”
These victims have done their teshuva (repentance), complete with regret and suffering, and painfully acquired wisdom about how to avoid the same traps in the future. They are extremely unlikely to again fall prey to another manipulator.
It is Meisels who wants to be let off easy. He hasn’t even taken the first step, admitting his wrongdoing, let alone offering compensation for the damage he inflicted or sincerely seeking the forgiveness of his victims.
Even his resignation and seminary sales are a sham. Yarmush is a puppet front. Meisels doubtlessly intends to wait until things cool off to stage a gradual return. Other rabbinic offenders, such as Benzion Sobel, have pulled off that stunt.
We are not allowed to dwell on the past mistakes of those who have done teshuva. I suspect that most of the Internet trolls who repeatedly comment in my posts about the mistakes of the victims know this halacha. They violate it precisely because they hope to pain the victims and intimidate them into silence or confuse others and divert the discussion away from the real issue: the dangers posed by Meisels and the culture of his seminaries.
Blame is not a zero-sum game where proving the victims made mistakes reduces the guilt of Meisels. Meisels is utterly guilty and unfit. Let’s keep our eyes on the ball.
—————-
*The epigraph at the beginning of this post was composed by several of us. It parodies the corruption of traditional values by drawing on the the text of the beginning Mishnah Peiah, which is recited during shachris. The new text of the perverters of tradition reads: “These are the things for which there are no fixed measure, stringencies on lashon horah and rechilus, excuses on behalf of organizations and their income from the damages they cause. These are the things whose fruits they eat in this world and their punishment is realized in the world to come.”
The Hebrew text is exactly 140 characters so it can be Tweeted or texted to others in the Yeshivish world who do not use the Internet or smart phones. I have already Tweeted it from @frumfollies. Please re-Tweet it.
FRUM FOLLIES by Yerachmiel Lopin 
I don’t understand if these girls violated the laws of negiah and yuchud so did the one who was in yichud or touched them so how can guilt be transferred or defended on that basis please enlighten me
That is exactly my point. Even if the girls sinned, so did Meisels. But the question is whether Meisels can be trusted; not whether the girls can be trusted.
there is a new psak from beis din in eretz on 7/25 how come you don’t have it anywhere??
Every professional code of conduct recognises that persons in ‘positions of authority’ — including, most definitely, teachers in every jurisdiction; rabbis; clergy;doctors; therapists etc — have an undue advantage over students/clients/followers in their wielding of power, authority, charisma etc., which is a result of the proper exercise of their professional responsibility. In these situations, the feelings or actions of the ‘student’ (or whatever) are irrelevant; the responsibility for maintaining correct, non-sexual relationship is with the professional. Those who transgress face disciplinary consequences by employers or professional bodies. Whatever the actions etc of the female student, the teacher is responsible for the situation. (And of course predators pick the vulnerable students.)
As long as people on this blog do not know how many of the victims were forceably raped, “unwanted” is not a precise word, we should not be blaming them for complicity. I imagine some were and many weren’t. I don’t think we will ever know, and unless this became a criminal case, we won’t know, and better that we don’t, for the girls’ sakes.
Naivety re trusting M. in being in Yichud, is a separate issue. That is probably true of all of them. But the charge of violating negiah, may very well not be accurate in however many cases involved force. In any case, we are talkiing about naive 18? year olds, shomrei negiah, who were taken advantage of by a monster, an authority in power. I find the use of the word “complicity” disturbing, although am willing to believe that in some cases the term might have perhaps been appropriate. In a nutshell, I am disturbed the the use of the term complicity in cases of naive 18 year olds taken advantage of by a power figure. (power figures include clergyman, teachers, therapists, etc), even though the victims may very well “feel” that they were complicit, particularly by not reporting him officially after the first “inappropriate” physical contact.
Is a 13 year old boy molested in the mikveh complicit? is he complicit if he allows it to go on over time, and not report it the very first time it occurred????.
According to the Chofetz chaim there are seven criterias that need to be met before exposing things like this on your blog “toalis” is one of them..This situation has nothing to do with you or your children relatives etc. Unless you have written permission to expose the Beth Din rulling you remain a “BAl Loshan Hora” your intention is not the safety of the future it is to fill your gossip and ego. Did you drop one tear that one of us sinned, and do you know if anybody tried to talk to him to stop doing what he is doing before you destroyed a person, his family and generations to come, another requirement by the chofetz chaim you need to repent if you still have time…I don’t know whats waiting for you on this and world to come, no wonder we can’t rebuild the beth Hamikdash.
I addressed your points in https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/kahanes-folly/
As I wrote there: “The Chofetz Chaim must be crying to see his work being distorted by a man who knows better. Kahane claims that even l’toeles (for a purpose such as protecting others) one may not believe allegations. However, the position of the Chofetz Chaim was that l’toeles, one may act on loshon horah (truthful derogatory information) to protect oneself and others. The rules of loshon horah are not unilateral disarmament against predators bent on money and monkey business.”
There is no way to protect future victims from the seminary staff who turned a blind eye, or from those seeking to rehabilitate Meisels without exposing their tactics and evasions.
This is not sinas chinam. Students are not hefker for predators. Meisels did worse than hate; he violated. Where is your concern for the victims? Our modern churban is sex abuse. It must be stopped.
You did not answer the question, did Beth Din give you permision to post this story. You do not have first hand knowledge, and if you did it would be an ed achod which is once agaun Loshon Hora witnesses are required to testify at a beth din, Now this being second hand information, and you are not sending your daughter to the seminaries, why post this story, Have you been carefull all your life in Shmiras Haloshon?, because if not than the Chofetz Chaim prohibits you spreading such news to anybody, A blog is the most dangerous thing today destroying familes. Btw did you ever speak to meisels yourself to get his side of the story? what a churrban you bring toKlal yisroel every word of Loshon Hora D’rabim or more shells of Hamas to Eretz Yisroel “Klausenborger” torah.
I have been encouraged to continue blogging about Meisels by distinguished rabbis from various groups including Hasidim, Litvaks, and Dati Leumi.
I mourn every death inflicted by Hamas but these rabbonim know an awful truth. More Jews will kill themselves because of abuse than Hamas will ever kill with their rockets.
Nathan, I am not trying to “call u names” etc.
I speak very literally when I say that your state of uneducated-ness is frightening and dangerous to many people, including yourself.
Please get a little more educated on hilchos l”h, bc you don’t seem to be so.
Thanks
I
I have completed shmiras haloshon over 25 times I can be tested at anytime you want, a wise man once said to avoid L’H when someone speaks ask him the following 1. is it 100% first hand information (truth) 2. does it have good information? 3. does it contain usefull information? for Yl this information is none of the above it is second hand info. no good will come out except to destroy the lives of many families and its not usefull if you have no daughter to send to the seminary, and once again if you have a history of bloging or talking L”H the chofetz Chaim forbids you to spread anything.
I absolutely knew you were going to comment back my stating first either: “I have smicha/ I know Sefer chofetz Chaim by heart” etc etc.
Means nothing in this case. Sorry. But I do commend you on your concerns with shmiras ha’lashon. Again, please learn the correct guidelines. Hoped you asked a reliable Rav for your sake.
OK, wise man, send your daughter to Meisels for personal instruction but leave the rest of us alone.
If there is likelihood of danger to someone, lo saamod al dam reyacha removes and issue of Loshon Hora.
Chosid shoteh. If a man was running around with a knife about to stab people, would you still talk about lashon hara? Of course, not, because in the case of a rodef, it’s a mitzvah l’farsem. Why don’t you call R’ Fuerst before you come here with silly frumkeiten which avoid the real issue, which is a rodef. By the way, many poskim have paskened that a molester has a din of rodef, and a din of someone who is mazik the rabim.
truthseeker, you have certainly crossed the LH lines numerous times in your comments over the past couple weeks. Not EVERYTHING thought should be said nor is mutar to say. i recommend you be more careful.
I am sure you are right. For those times I was not cognizant of my words, I will daven for mechila this upcoming Y”K.
On a more general note, I know for a fact that I have helped a tremendous amount of ppl in regards to this topic- both on and off the blog.
And Reuven-
I asked a shayla to someone on what I can/cannot tell the public and they gave me the specific guidelines. I will not go back and re-read all of my posts, but I know that the majority did not fall in the category of l”h.
No need to be my posek. Thanks.
@nathan:
Where do you come off poskening about what is & isn’t loshon hora? If you’ve read previous post of YL, you’ll see that he asked to post about this from a rav and got the rav’s permission. Who are you to be so judgmental? What’s more important on your agenda: Loshon hora or Young Ladies lives? It’s obvious to me which one you’ve chosen.
Next question: How is one supposed to come before HKB”H for Rosh HaShonah? What does Halacha say about asking someone you’ve wronged for forgiveness? EM has yet to do this. The people of the 4 EM seminaries have yet to do this. And now with your post, YOU have yet to do this.
As YL posted in the initial EM story w/over 600+ replies, on 07/13/14 @ 1:59 p.m.:
To quote Rav Ron Yitzchak Eisenman of Passaic, iirc, ‘the biggest mayvinim on loshon horah are the molesters.
Quoting the chofetz Chaim exposing jewish sins where every gentile can read and mock jews is one great degree of Apikorses and kfira “todays lecture of two laws of Loshon Hora” Btw who is the rav that granted permission to blog this L’H all across the globe, according to you EM can never repent only you can, there were bigger Amoroim brought down in chazal that committed greater sins than em did and they all repented. Remember how you judge others you will be judged, if you destroy familie be prepared to face the same.
You write: “according to you EM can never repent…; There were bigger Amoroim brought down in chazal that committed greater sins than em did and they all repented.”
Indeed, teshuva is possible for EM. But first he has to admit what he did, offer compensation, and beg forgiveness. He hasn’t taken those steps. Thus, as you know well, any talk of teshuva is extremely premature. Moreover, he is involved in maligning his victims. In fact, Nathan, why don’t you go to work speaking about loshon horah to all the Meisels trolls in the comments. Do that thoroughly and you will be credible as a loshon horah kanoi.
All I do is to represent my voice, if after 120 years I am asked didi you stand up for kiddush Hashem I could eaily say I did. YL you do not answer my questions as I said if a gentile reads a blog like this and causes a Chillul Hashem your in the same category of an Apikoris…enjoy gambling with your life and your family
Your theology is defective. The chillul hashm (desecration of G-d’s name) is in the act. The revelation is the punishment to the evil doer. Do you think G-d reads Frum Follies to know what Meisels did?
The dirty laundry is out there. Gentiles are coming to believe that orthodox Jews behave like the Catholic Church. The kiddush hashem (santification of G-d’s name) lies in bravely addressing the problem and performing a tikkun (repair/restoration/change). At this point, the kiddush hashem would be showing the world that no one, no matter how important, learned or wealthy, or used to their job will be spared from honest investigation and reform.
BTW, have you contacted the IBD, Yarmish and Meisels to chastise them for creating this chillul hashem with their shameful failure to protect students.
Antisemite always accused Jews of being greedy and crooked but we used to be respected for our families and chastity. Let’s prevent anti-Semites from saying we abandon our students to sexual predators just like the Catholic Church.
Mishnah Avot/Pirkei Avot 4:5
רבי יוחנן בן ברוקה אומר, כל המחלל שם שמיים בסתר, נפרעין ממנו בגלוי
Rabbi Yochanan ben Berokah would say, “Anyone who desecrates G-d’s name in secret is punished in public.”
You mean that’s what the cc said according to you!
Why is it, that in the secular world when a story like this pops up, everyone distances themselves from the predator, promises transparency and help for victims etc.
Why do the Meisels schools think that they will regain public trust by hiding behind a letter from BD that says some pareve information and skirts all the issues. Not a word from IBD about Meisels guilt. Not a word about victims, not a word about what staff knew/didnt knew, just a bunch of gibberish.
From a buisness perspective they probabely would have been doing so much better had they come out and adressed the issues straight forward.
I think as a condition for the seminaries staying open they should be forced to have a subscription to FF…
The X factor here is that many of the other seminaries are already full, which means that the girls who really had their hearts set on going to Israel can’t just find another place (Nachlas BY notwithstanding), so their cognitive dissonance tells them that with Meisels out, it’ll be OK.
Sobel-haven’t heard his name in a long while! What’s the latest with him? To my knowledge he never recovered from his early 80’s scandal? (other than some fundraising jobs, etc.?)
He periodically resurfaced in teaching roles until forces were marshalled to slam him again. Ask Pinchos Lipshutz, owner of Yated (US). He was involved in helping to stop a Sobel resurfacing by sharing the views of his then-ailing relative, Rav Elya Svei. Yet there has never been a comprehensive documenation or public declaration of his predatory history of raping yeshiva boys.
Thanks for the sobel update-you are right, his name comes up very infrequently if at all, but he was a classic textbook case of rabbinic abuse of authority-to the tune of many shattered lives, r’l
Anyone know the latest with the pervert Dovid Weinberger mentioned above?
Hanging out in Har Nof Jerusalem with a 12 Shaulzon St mailing address near Eli Meisels (42). Not clear if he is engaging in any rabbinical, teaching or counseling activity.
I am an alumni from the Meisles schools and I have something very important to say to any girl who says “he changed my life/he gave me everything/ he is amazing”…
Yes, he might have done a lot of good. And personally effected your life…but the fact that you choose to HYPER-FOCUS on only his good deeds to override his bad ones is downright selfish.
Selfish.
I am not criticizing. I am trying to make you view this in a diff way.
Yes, he gave you so much in life, but imagine what terrible terrible things he was doing at the same time. If you knew he was committing acts of adultery with underaged girls, would you have ever in your life have accepted those kind acts from him?
When ppl see how much I am disgusted by Meisles, some seminary friends lash at me and say “well, you are a kafuya Tova (ingrate) bc you don’t remember all the wonderful things he has done for you!” (Ironically, this is exactly what Meisles told me when I complained abt his inappropriate behavior once. He made me feel so guilty for ever accusing him…).
NO.
You are only thinking of yourself. What he gave to YOU, how he has changed YOUR life.
And since you only focus on your personal experience with Meisles, you close your eyes and ears when you find out that there was PROOF and a confession that he is a sick sex-hungry sociopath.
He fooled everyone. Even you.
Think about the lives he’s ruined. He is using all of you like a shield of girls who all scream “he did so much for ME!”
Remove the mask. See beyond it. Think of the victims.
Please please.
One point about this ordeal is that no one really knows what Eli did. On the other hand there are quite a few people at leaast one rabbi in rbs who gives shiurim to many people and has in the past taught in seminaries which he was thrown out of who has done great damage to many girls. And another well known american therapist who worksa in jerusalem from ts who has even signed a commitment in front of dr levit from the never yerushalayim family therapy program and also signed on the commitment by this sao called therapist that he will never have anything to do with woman in the capacity of therapy or counselling. Signed in aug 2008. He is still seeing women supposedly with his wife in the room. Anyways both of these manipulative mind controlling individuals did not receive any bashing as Eli did. Maybe hashem wants eli to get a kaparah in this world. But as you all see that if morae and more victims come forward to tell about reshaim you will save others from this terrible suffering that we all have gone through. There is forum takana. There is the magen society run by David morris is. Beit shemesh. There is debbi gross and hindy schreiber all great therApists to help out victims and stop these predators. And please let your stories be known about these predators especially in the nine days. Kal yisroel areivim zeh lazeh. Lets help be mekayem ubearta harah mekirbecha. May we all see a real tranquility and peace amongst us.
@rtk:One point about this ordeal is that no one really knows what Eli did.
Stop with your nonsense! The CBD interviewed the accusers & the accused. The CBD has a very good idea what went on based on testimony from both sides.
Your very first sentence needs to be flushed down the toilet, which then negates the rest of your rhetorical posting.
Facts speak for themselves.
i was not coming to protect anyone .I was just explaining that the more that people write about experiences the more people will be saved.these other predators are known to have done terrible things and are still continuing to work RABBI DAVID OSTROV a very close talmidof Harav MOSHE Shternbuch is also signed on that agreement with this therapist that he will totally stay away from women.RAV Moshe met with the therapists who explained what he did but no woman has the strength to come forward even to RAV MOSHE because of the trauma they have gone through otherwise RAV MOSHE would have written a letter against that so called therapist .I JUST hope that this is the beginning of klal yisroels way of knowing lo saamod al dam raecha .the kli yakar says by lo salech rachil bamecha that a baalmachlokes it is amitzvah to say on him lashon harah because of lo saamod al dom raecha .and to all of you therapists rabbanim patients individuals freinds of victims that know about these predators please save us all and let it be known to all of the holy nation of israel the recent stories on halpern weinberger and many others are a proof that these people will go on for decades if you do not let it be known .dont be afraid RAV MOSHE SHTERNBUCH has paskaned in a few cases if not many or all to go straight to the police . IT is a bigger destruction of klal yiroel to let these people continue then saying that it is achilul hashem because goyim read these blogs .VERY many kids are going off the derech because they see and experienced this abuse and no one cared to stop it .WE can just look around at our society today and realize there is something wrong so stop hiding things and start trying to stop it and fixit it says sur merah vasaeh tov and in shmoneh esreh it says first velamalshinim and vechal harisha kregah yoveidu then val hatzadikim kal haschalos kashos and the work has begun no one should feel guilty coming forward these people work on your psych with something similar to mind control theu are usually very smart and charming and sure of themselves really its gaavah so dont be scared the victims that come forward get healed especially if maybe they feel like our soldiers that they were chosen to be in this war and get injured with a purpose to save many holy souls
i just wanted to make something clear that RABBI DAVID OSTROV IS the one that enforced this therapist to sign the commitment because he knows what this therapist did .RAV DAVID tried very hard to stop him but he has not gotten much help from others yasher kochacha to RAV DAVID OSTROV please continue your holy work and have much hatzlacha
Thank you for that post
Just would like to correct you…I happened to know what he did. And in more detail than many others. And so does the CBD. I am only saying this so ppl cannot come up saying “we don’t even know any of the actions.”
Simply not true.
Name them and we’ll bash them too.
We are equal opportunity sex abuser bashers.
it seems from one of the last comments on rabbi kahanas letter that that guy has a history i need not mention his name because it is mentioned there that he left michlala there are quite a few complaints against him ask david morriss from the magen society in beit shemesh or ask the girls who reply to be more specific in regards to the other one speak to dr levit in neve or rav david ostrov there is a signed commitment if you put in a fax number or e mail maybe someone on the web will get it to you
You claim that “no one really knows what he did.” Really?! His victims can vividly remember the horrific things that were done to them. In fact, they can’t get it out of their heads no matter how hard they try. They will experience many years of PTSD and much pain due to the trauma and betrayal, and yet you casually claim, “no one really knows what he did.” Not sure what you were thinking. Or maybe you weren’t.
I understood him to mean that the general public does not know what he did, but maybe I am also not thinking.
The point is that the general public doesn’t need to know precisely what Meisels did. What is remarkable, though, is just how little the Chicago Beis Din left to the imagination (“improper conduct, including unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature”).
By comparison, in the case of Dovid Weinberger, who is as guilty of sexual abuse as you can get, the Rabbanim of the Five Towns and Far Rockaway saw no need to be so explicit: “Following [Weinberger’s resignation from Shaaray Tefila], we learned from professionals of a number of documented cases of his unfortunate and unacceptable behavior,” was more than enough to get the point across to anyone living on this planet.
If the Chicago Beis Din did not deem it sufficient to use such general language, but explicitly stated that the conduct was 1.) unwanted, 2.) physical, and 3.) of a sexual nature, we can reasonably infer that Meisels’ conduct was extremely harmful (and an extreme violation of Halacha) – no less so than Weinberger’s conduct.
That is exactly what I am trying to say! We all know that there WAS abuse involved and that he was removed from his seminaries. I dont understand the need for all these dozens of follow up articles pretty much saying the same things! Lets face it, when people read these articles describing the nature of these acts, people investigate it deeper and I dont think its necessary!
We need continuing coverage because Meisels and his supporters are denying his guilt, whitewashing his enablers, and setting the stage for his rehabilitation. That cannot be allowed.
Read what Lopin just replied to you.
If you dont understand ‘why we need these blogs’ still, then please please (asking nicely) stop asking what the point of FrumFollies is and the coming ing articles. They are paramount.
A few years ago, in a professional capacity, I had to interview victims of a serious sexual predator who had worked in a Jewish school. The incidents had come to light only some time after the individual concerned had left, and in fact his ‘modus operandi’ had been to ‘groom’ his victims in the school, but the actual assaults took place after they had graduated. At the time of interview, the victims were 22 – 23 years old. The perpetrator was a classic charismatic ‘kiruv’ personality. I will never forget what one young man told me. He was intelligent, and thoughtful. After describing horrific incidents of personal sexual abuse, he stopped talking, thought for a moment, and then volunteered the following statement: “But you know, at the end, he gave me far more than he took from me”. It was one of the most chilling things I have ever heard in my life, and is testament to the power of these awful predators.
WOW.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
“Chilling” is very on target.
My very first post on this site spoke about all the good Meisles had done and then the misdeeds. I read it to a friend who said, ” you’re not gonna like what I have to say…but that sounds like an abusive relationship. You aren’t suppose to speak about his good sides and ‘everything he gave you’ and feel any remorse.'”
Thanks again for sharing. Truly very sad and twisted…
truthseeker,you rock for being so bold and direct about your experience in a Meisels sem. I wish more girls would be forthcoming about their experiences-not for the tiltilation factor, but for the public record.
Wolf, thanks 😉
I only wish my seminary pals (the ones who aren’t still manipulated and sticking up for Meisles) would gather up the courage and tell their experiences as well to help educate the public…but I cannot pressure them in doing anything they are too afraid to do…
My daughter is scheduled to go and I would not have realized the full extent without this blog. We have been getting all sorts of stories from the school. It is true that loshen horah is terrible, but this is different. Without people coming forward now and people like Lopin exposing this, it could’ve been my daughter next year testifying.
I’m so sorry that you have to go through the travail of finding alternative arrangements. And you’re right. The difference is that Meisels is a rodef, and it needs to be publicized. Even more, as the second letter from the CBD indicates, the schools remain unsafe because of all the staff that had to have some knowledge of what was going on and yet DID ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING about it. These same staff are still in place.
I said long ago that these sems are rotten to the core, and it’s tragic. But it’s also true. And if we would have listened to the lashon hara amei ha’aretz and their lack of knowledge, then people like you would have never heard about what was going on.
I hope you easily find a good placement for your daughter.
Yochanan – correct me if I am wrong – but in this case – it is not Lashon Harah to spread information about Meisels. It is protecting the innocent.
Much like in a shidduch giving accurate – even if its negative – information – which many people do not do because they consider it Lashon Harah. I always say – if you don’t give true information when asked -then, when it comes time for your kids to marry – you will get the same level of information & suffer accordingly.
actually, very often what happens on this and other blogs does not have the same heter as shiduchim at all. in fact anyone who really believes that ALL the comments on this blog are halachikly permitted is a lunatic. some are (a few, very few). others, absolutely not. flat out assur. i recommend the posters learn the halachos well before blogging. these are very serious things and to GUESS that it is mutar is a big risk, would you guess that meat is kosher? the halachos are not that complicated. I recommend you keep a chofetz chaim by the computer for reference when coming on this sight.
Reuven- ur absolutely right. L”h should be taken very seriously, esp on these public blogs.
However, ur comparison of l”h to “maybe eating non-kosher meat” is extreme. If fact, that was a line Kahane used on me when he was trying to guilt-trip me into keeping my mouth shut about the Meisles situation.
I wanna say that this blog is helping countless of girls, parents, and the general public. The good it is doing cannot be comprehended. It extends far more than just the Eli Meisles scandal.
I think we can all agree that, as a rule, guarding our tongue is a good thing. When in doubt, leave it out.
However, unfortunately, many people use the issur of Lashon Horah as a shield for people who commit sexual abuse. Someone close to me was a victim of a certain “Rabbi”, which probably could have been avoided if people in the know had spoken up beforehand. Boruch Hashem, this “Rabbi” was eventually fired and forced to permanently retire from the Rabbinate. Furthermore, Chasdei Hashem, his guilt was publicized internationally (thanks to Yerachmiel), which will help protect potential victims. This is the type of case where Lashon Horah was actually a tremendous Mitzvah, but the average person might not know that. And this case is far from unique.
Even those who know that Lashon Horah is permitted l’toeles might err in thinking that the Chofetz Chaim’s seven conditions must be met before publicizing the identity of a molester. Fearing that they cannot meet those conditions, they remain silent. But that’s not correct, because the seven conditions must only be met when the speaker is relying on the Heter of Toeles (a Heter that is basically unique to Lashon Horah), not when the Heter is Pikuach Nefashos, which overrides virtually every Lo Sa’aseh in the Torah, including Lashon Horah (prominent Poskim have ruled that a molester has the din of a Rodeif), without the need to meet those conditions. I never saw a member of Hatzala hesitate before answering a call on Shabbos, in order to make sure he’s meeting a list of conditions.
Nor does it have to be 100% certain that the person is a molester (which it rarely is). If it’s even a reasonable Safek, it would be permitted to publicize the matter, just as one can be Mechalel Shabbos in a case of Safek Pikuach Nefashos. In this case, the actions of the Chicago Beis Din demonstrate that, at the very least we are dealing with a Safek Rodeif and with Safek Pikuach Nefashos.
There is another important clause permitting one to say publicly to others if it has been said to the offender and is not longer a secret. See this post for a discussion of whether the Chofetz Chaim erred in his understanding of Rabbeinu Yona on this matter. http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2014/07/chofetz-chaim-disagrees-with-rabbeinu.html
To YL, I wouldn’t trust that eidensohn over the great and holy chafetz Chaim . It’s one thing to say that even according to the CC you are allowed to talk because it can save people, but don’t rely going against the CC because eidensohn thinks he knows how to learn better then the CC, you embarrass yourself by doing so, and I believe it ruins your reputation to quote eidensohn against the great CC.
Ad Hominem attacks are no substitute for examining facts and texts. I am sure the Chofetz Chaim himself, if he erred would defer to someone else who was right even if way less saintly and learned. You are not arguing from facts.
in regard to Weinberger giving shiuar at boston har nof shul ead the following blog from yodel shain.
http://www.yudelstake.blogspot.com/2014/07/clarification-daf-yomi-magid-shiur-in.html
I still say….rabbi Meisels is no longer with these schools. He is out. Gone. I still do not understand why many are saying that there is danger sending to these schools. I have read all of the posts.
There are fine teachers at these schools. Most of them teach at other institutions as well.
Rabbi Meisels is not in control of the schools and wil not be there in the future. This blog has done its job and he is out. So… Why can girls not go there?
See https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/seminary-staff-made-it-possible-for-meisels-to-abuse-students/
Ask Rabbi Fuerst if you really want to know why these institutions are still not a safe place for young women.
Apparently you are more interested in defending the indefensible than in learning the truth.
Don’t you think it would be a good idea for everyone to know so he can’t worm his way back into chunuch?
Rational Faith, don’t waste your time on this guy.
He is derailing discussion by asking repetitive and purposeless questions/statements.
If you truly meant what you just said, then sorry, but I take back what I said before abt believing your identity.
You do not sound like “a worried father who can’t decide whether to send my daughter to a Meisles school to protect her.”
Should the title ‘rabbi’ be attached to the name of someone violates the most basic laws of our faith?
Should we honor someone who acts in a despicable manner with young ladies (as allegedly was the case here) by using this title?
As I pointed out in my first post about the Chicago ruling, they “defrocked” the rabbi by deliberately calling him “Mr. Meisels.” I wonder what the Israeli Beis Din thinks. But we won’t know because they have managed to adress the issue without ever using his name or weighing in on his innocence or guilt. Maybe they think his name is Voldemort. 😉
Lol- he who must not be named. Good use of reference.
And yet, it is sad…from the very beginning (lack of Meisles’ name) we were able to see how the IBD is corrupt and biased.
Here was the progression:
1) Meisels is INNOCENT! I know because it was a crazy girl from a wealthy family who had “daddy issues”
2) Ok, maybe he did something, but it wasn’t abuse. And the girls probably exaggerated anyway
3) Maybe it was unwanted contact, but it was only one or two girls who had major problems
4) Ok, maybe Meisels is guilty, but IBD is still investigating
5) Well, at least Meisels is out, so the sems are safe.
At least we’re making progress. The Chicago Beis Din argues and says that the schools have retained staff that, at a minimum, ignored the complaints of several girls and didn’t protect them. Instead, they protected a monster/abuser. The more this thing gets aired out, the more will see the emes.
Hahah that description of the progression was great.
It saddens me that ppl are still defending him…it’s breaking my heart.. I have lost respect for so so many individuals…I guess that means it’s time to move on to better friends/mentors..
You could add 2a. Why are we blaming Meisels. Why is nobody talking about the fault of the girls. Didn’t they learn all about negiah and yichud.
So much talk and hairsplitting here! Let’s get back to the fundamentals as at least some have expressed above: this was an adult in a position of power and responsibility who took advantage of the suggestibility, naivete, etc. of young female students to interact sexually with them. Even if one of these girls, perhaps having been abused at an early age, acted frankly seductively towards him he should have cautioned her or gone for assistance from a responsible adult woman to deal with her. There are echoes here of that travesty in Montana or wherever in which a judge gave a rapist a 30 day sentence because his mid-teen-age victim ‘knew what she was doing’. That wrong has been or is being addressed by the goyish folk out West (whom the frum despise) yet frum Jews pussyfoot around while trying to avoid condemning and shunning an abuser within the community. What a shameful repugnant business!
Just by the way, this is on no way l’toeles. All the girls that are going next year have already gotten a letter from the seminary informing them of the situation. I am not saying whether or not Meisels did anything, but i know him very well and he does not pose as a danger to the students…u make him sound like a loose animal that will bite anyone that it comes in contact with, and that is entirely not the case. You keep on posting article after article abt all this and its not helping anyone, its fueling more lashon hara and more rumors, and in the three weeks, that is not whats supposed to be happening! Theres a difference between getting a message out there, and milking the message so u can go brag about ur 2 million hits!! U shud be ashamed of urself!
Instead of being able to focus on the destruction of the temple, many girls and their supporters are mourning their personal desecration.
Are you equally concerned about the sinas chinam (unjustified hate) that meisels and his supporters are dumping on the victims and their supporters. They are making harassing phone calls, threatening to hurt the reputations of people, engaging in slut shaming here and other places, disparaging the sanity and character of victims, and accusing the Chicago Beis Din of taking bribes.
So tell us what you are doing about that.
Show us the same pious zeal for Meisels’ victims, the same outrage over Meisels loshon harah (truthful gossip) and even worse, motzi shem rah (libel and slander).
You obviously dont understand my point. Yes I am all about spreading awareness about the alleged situation. However, it should be spread to the people that it would affect. Let’s face it, we all live in America, hes in Israel, he no longer runs the seminaries in israel (sham or no sham) so why publish article after article about it?
What does Meisels ‘motzie shem ra’ have to do with the situation? Just because he did it, that means that u can?
The letters to which you refer are full of lies. The two letters differ by over three weeks on when Meisels resigned. They claim to have the support of Torah Umesora, which Torah Umesora denies, and they are riddled with other falsehods and misleading statements. Nowhere do they say, we had a sex abuser who we have removed. How can you say they were informed of the situation.
Enough Already, Lopin has done a good deed by even bothering to reply to your comment.
The last thing this blog needs is another person preaching abt the 3 weeks (not putting it down- it is a crucial crucial time indeed). Anyone can tell by your post that you are a Meisles defender. If you truly cares for justice/the victims etc you wouldn’t have written that post.
Like I have been telling ppl like you over and over- Get educated on this topic before posting.
Truthseeker, I am entitled to my opinion just as anyone else is. I am in no way a ‘Meisels defender’, I am just saying enough with the dozen of follow up articles saying the same stupid thing. People will be more careful and thats it!
How can we trust them to be more careful when they are denying the scope of the problem to date and keeping the same administrators in charge. Thus they are also refusing to pay damages to victims. Denial is not a recipe for corrective action.
No one ever said you weren’t entitled.
“People will be more careful and thats it!”- wow. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. Sorry to burst your bubble. You seem to be in denial and in a lot of pain…like many others. But do not stunt the postings/views of this extremely important blog simply bc you are emotionally frustrated.
Perhaps the victims will like to tell you about THEIR emotional frustrations as well…
This blog is needed. Whether you enjoy it or not.
Enough already, I’ve been following this story with great interest, after the initial shock wore off. What someone commented earlier was very true. The progression of the general public in terms of accepting the situation has definitely evolved over the past couple of weeks, and I have no doubt that it was mainly due to YL’s diligent reporting and updating. I personally am still trying to educate a girl who I know who’s signed up for Pninim next year to at least read the articles and educate herself as to what’s going on with the admin of the school she wants to go to. Your claims that “people will be more careful” isn’t true. Sometimes it takes reading many articles and seeing updates multiple times before it actually sinks in, ESPECIALLY if someone is personally tied to the matter (i.e, they know the accused, or are signed up for one of his schools).
I know for a fact that there are still some people out there who don’t know what to do for next year. In fact, a father wrote here just recently that if not for this blog, he would not have known of the seriousness of the situation. Letters are nice, but they have limitations. The truth comes out much more efficiently on a blog like this, for the better or the worse. So really, it’s all very necessary and very much l’toeles, especially for people still trying to decide. There’s a lot of money on the line, and some parents may just give up and send rather than to litigate and get their money back. They think differently after reading the posts here.
To your point about Meisels being a loose animal, I disagree. HE IS A PREDATOR. There is no indication whatsoever that he did teshuva, and remember that in a case of bein odom l’chaveiro he has to ask the victims for mechila and offer compensation. He has not done anything in that regard. So yes, as an unrepentant monster, I actually do believe that he’s an animal.
I am not aware of any public admitting of guilt. However, I was told from someone that has seen him recently that there are signs of guilt in his appearance. No one can say forsure..
“…there are signs of guilt in his appearance.”
This was a funny comment. Um, forgive my ignorance, but what exactly ARE “signs of guilt in his appearance”? Is he wearing signs on his forehead or on his back saying “I am guilty of being a sexual predator”?
To be fair, we talk all the time about someone looking like he feels guilty. I assume that is what is meant “signs of guilt.” It would be good to know he feels guilty, especially if he isn’t faking it. That could be the first step of his taking responsibility.
However, that doesn’t change the fact that he is unfit for that role and has not taken steps to help repair some of his damage. We still deny driver’s licenses to people who feel very guilty over manslaughter while DUI.
I would sooner call these “signs of shame” rather than “signs of guilt.” He could be feeling ashamed about having been caught and publically disgraced, without feeling guilty about what he did to his victims. Either way, he needs to express his remorse to and seek forgiveness from every victim, as well as take steps at repairing the damage he did including compensation to each victim.
I would add that he needs to publically apologize to every student he ever taught for the extent to which he has shattered their faith and trust in the Torah he represented and in the Frumkeit he taught. He needs to publically apologize to every student in any of his seminaries for having tainted their reputations for being associated with him by their having gone to one of his Seminaries. He needs to apologize to the parents of his recent graduates who are now scrambling to get their daughters into therapy to deal with the shock and trauma that many of these young women have to deal with after having their faith shattered. He needs to apologize to every girl who is stuck without a seminary to go to for the coming year. He needs to compensate every parent who has a daughter registered in every seminary he owns/owned/directed by returning their deposits and tuition to them. And he needs to publically apologize to Klal Yisrael (the entire Jewish Nation) for shaming our Torah which he represented with his title of Rabbi, and for shaming us with the Chillul Hashem he created.
Showing signs of shame is certainly a step in the right direction. But there is a long way to go from there.
Where is he these days? Does he go to shul and walk the streets, or is he holed up in his apartment? How are his neighbors treating him? Is his wife still in denial, or is she starting to wake up and smell the coffee?
Gary, most of your questions are imperative.
If someone HAS seen him out in the open/continuing regular life (someone on here said they did), it would disprove Kahane’s claim when he said to me “Trust me, he (Meisles) will never see the light of day or be in contact with anyone ever again.”
Can anyone confirm where Meisles is on a regular day basis? ‘Cooped up in a shell’? Or trying to rebuild himself?
Why are you so disturbed by bnos yisroel being warned away from a predetor? Are you offended by tznius or are you simply worried about the pool of potential victims shrinking as the tzubur gets more educated and aware that men in black hats and yeshivish dress and grooming also have a yetzer horah and can’t be trusted is these situations any more than anyone else?
Are you worried you yourself will have a harder time finding victims? Or are you afraid that crying lashon horah won’t always be enough to keep your victims silent?
In response to Neil (the first commenter on this article) and all others who dwell on the mistakes of the victims:
“It’s totally fine with me that the Rav of my shul bakes bread every Shabbos afternoon, since he does it together with a Jewish teenager, and surely the teenager knows hilchos Shabbos, and really, what is the teenager thinking, doesn’t the teenager know right from wrong?!”
Logic sounds flawed? The logic is yours.
Yes, the teenager is doing something wrong. Does it then follow that your Rav did nothing wrong?!
Yes, some victims may have made mistakes. (Some did not make mistakes – they were groomed, manipulated, threatened, deceived, coerced, and forced.) Does it then follow that Meisels is fit to be a principal?!
The question is whether or not Meisels can be trusted or if he presents a danger to the wellbeing of young women. Anyone who knows the facts recognizes that Meisels presents an extreme danger to girls and caused lifelong damage to those entrusted in his care. This is true regardless of the behavior of the victims before, during, and after the abuse.
For argument’s sake, let’s say one or more victims acted in a provocative manner toward her principal.
Does this make him any less guilty? NO.
Does this make him any less evil? NO.
Does this make him any less dangerous? NO.
Does this lessen the damage he has done? NO.
Does this mean he can be trusted? NO.
Does this mean he did not ruin lives? NO.
Does this mean he is fit to be a mechanech? NO.
The actions of the victims are exceedingly irrelevant for our discussion. That matter is between each girl and Hashem.
Instead of blaming the victims, I am overcome with sympathy for them. Yes, even the ones who made mistakes. I daven that they should each find an extremely competent therapist who can help them heal to the extent possible. Unlike you, I know a lot about sexual abuse. I know that even the ones who made mistakes cannot be blamed for what was done to them. By blaming the girls who were abused instead of the man who abused them, you have succeeded in highlighting your ignorance about the dynamic of imbalance between abusers and victims. When someone is in a position of authority, it is ALWAYS their responsibility to ensure that things don’t become inappropriate. Anyone who has been sexually abused by an authority figure, like I was, knows that this is more than just a legal technicality. It reflects a documented psychological phenomenon that exists and therefore has legal ramifications. When someone is in a position of authority over you, you can be as vulnerable as a child, even if you may be 30 years old. This is a FACT.
Moreover, you have made it clear that you know nothing about grooming and manipulation as they relate to sexual abuse. By grooming, manipulating, deceiving, threatening, and coercing, Meisels may have succeeded in getting some of the girls to “consent,” but those alone are crimes and cannot justify his bigger crime — the sexual abuse of his students.
CORRECTION:
Neil, the first commenter on this article, is actually NOT blaming the victims. He and I seem to be in agreement that Meisels is the one to blame. I apologize for the error. My lengthy post above is directed toward people that do blame victims, whether entirely or partially so.
Yerachmiel Lopin wrote, “Contrary to stereotypes, some were targeted because they were very naïve ‘good girls.’ ”
100% true. I know, because I was one of those naïve, good girls. Then I was sexually abused by a charismatic, manipulative rabbi. My abuser was able to get away with anything because my trust of rabbanim was absolute.
~A good girl who is no longer naïve
Yael, you are a fine good with nothing to be ashamed of. Thank you for sharing your experiences and bringing to light the terrible problem of abuse by manipulative rabbis and authority figures. Brave girls you tell the truth is the only way to change the system. May Hashem bless you with much simcha and hatzlacha!!
Yael – First, a big, safe, boundaried, respectful, caring, and empathetic cyber hug.
Unfortunately, you are in good company in terms of being one of those naïve good girls who was sexually abused by a manipulative rabbi who took advantage of someone they knew had trust in rabbanim. I know one personally.
You are correct that there is a proven a psychological phenomena in terms of the imbalance of power when dealing with an authority figure. Psychologically, an adult is considered as a child when a vulnerable position with an authority figure such as a doctor, teacher, therapist or clergyman. Anyone who has spent even only one hour in therapy can attest to that.
Taking advantage of this imbalance of power is cruel and abusive for anyone in a position of authority – doctor, teacher, therapist, etc. But for a RABBI to abuse this power is the utmost in it’s extreme abuse of Torah, is a horrific Chillul Hashem, and is something you would think that every Frum Jew would be jumping to rid from our communities.
A few moments of shock, initial confusion and possibly even initial denial MAY be understandable for those who know the perpetrator personally. But please, push through the cognitive dissonance and realize that NO man, no matter how much good he has done, how important his position, nor how good his reputation, is above sin. And when it comes to protecting others from someone capable of destroying a life like this, we need put caring for the victims and for future victims before our discomfort with the facts.
Perhaps more public education is needed to understand the extreme trauma of such an experience, and how it can potentially destroy a person’s life.
CORRECTION: Psychologically, an adult is considered as a child when IN a vulnerable position with an authority figure such as a doctor, teacher, therapist or clergyman.
Thank you, Tova and Seriously for your kind words and good wishes. While frum society has a long way to go in properly addressing sexual abuse, every person like you who understands and spreads these truths is already making a difference.
In my experience, there are three things that are widely misunderstood on the topic of sexual abuse. I described them below in the format of myths and truths. Please feel free to add to my list if I left anything out.
1) FREQUENCY OF OCCURENCE
Myth: “Sexual abuse barely happens to frum Jews.”
Truth: Unlike many people think, sexual abuse occurs regularly in our frum circles. You don’t know anyone who was abused? Then they simply haven’t told you. Just because people don’t talk about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Abuse is an intensely private struggle. Stigma and misplaced shame prevent people from sharing it with the world. Many victims choose to share their experience with only a small handful of trusted confidantes. Even that takes tremendous courage and is not a given. One third to one quarter of us will go through some form of sexual abuse in our lifetime. Be grateful if you have been spared – others wish they could still afford to be skeptical and naïve. I guarantee anyone reading this that several of your own extended or immediate family members, friends, and/or coworkers have been sexually abused. In a class of 25 students, easily 7 or 8 have been molested in some form. By the way, believing the awful reality makes you much more likely to be chosen as a trusted confidante than sticking your head in the sand.
2) PROFILE OF MOLESTERS
Myth: “Abusers act crazy, weird, sinister, suspicious, or creepy in public.
Truth: Abusers look exactly like a normal person. If you met one on the street, you would likely be extremely impressed with his dignity and eloquence. Molesters are experts at not only hiding their misdeeds, but also at making themselves beloved and indispensable to parents and communities. This way, they can easily satisfy their desires in private, committing soul-murder with as little risk as possible. They carefully cultivate an image and use it to their advantage all the time. In fact, child molesters often wait many months before touching a child. First, they develop a friendship with the child’s parents so that the child won’t be believed if he has the courage to share what happened. Don’t be fooled! If you believe that an alleged molester “would never do it,” maybe that’s what he cunningly had you believe. I know he may seem extremely generous and kind. Think “by design.”
3) DAMAGE CAUSED BY SEXUAL ABUSE
Myth: “He will get over it; it’s not the end of the world.”
Truth: Sexual abuse has a devastating, long-term impact on the victim’s life. While most people understand that sexual abuse is wrong, they fail to recognize the intensity of the damage it causes. I could write a book on this subject. For now, I will summarize some of the effects of sexual abuse. Not every victim suffers every one of these consequences — each has his own unique, painful journey. The impact of abuse depends on the age of the victim, his relationship to the abuser, the reaction of others, the duration and type of abuse, and other factors. Here goes: First, if the abuser was known to the victim, there is a tremendous feeling of betrayal, and ability to trust is weakened or lost. The victim feels tremendous shame and self-hatred, as if something were deeply wrong with him or her. Her self-image is colored and tainted by what happened, and she feels different than everyone else. Self-esteem is crushed, and the feeling of worthlessness is reflected in all the victim’s interactions and achievements. Cynicism and bitterness toward religion is common especially if the abuser was a rebbi, rav, or other religious figure. As a survival tactic, many of these victims abandon religion entirely, since it understandably represents all their pain and terror. Difficulty forming and maintaining healthy relationships is common for sexual abuse victims, and isolation results. They frequently suffer from flashbacks and other symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Concentration suffers, distraction rules, and grades plummet. Sexual abuse can cause eating disorders, drug overdose, depression, promiscuity, addictions, self-mutilation, and suicide. Trauma and confusion associated with sexuality cause much strain on a marriage and have led to divorces when not addressed in therapy. Victims frequently wish to die. Parents watching their children suffering from the effects of sexual abuse have called it “a fate worse than death.” In the best-case scenario, thousands of dollars and many pain-filled months or years are spent on recovery. This list is not even close to complete. It is merely to provide a taste of the suffering that victims are forced to endure.
Important note: Counseling can minimize the terrible impact of sexual abuse on victims to the extent possible.
Yael- you are such a strong person. Thank you for sharing your terrible experience and insights to better educate people.
You are using your unfortunate tragic past to help others for future safety of potential victims.
CORRECTION:
Neil, the first commenter on this article, is actually NOT blaming the victims. He and I seem to be in agreement that Meisels is the one to blame. I apologize for the error. My lengthy post above is directed toward people that do blame victims, whether entirely or partially so.
AIN APITROPOS LE’ARAYOS.
Men should not be teaching girls of any age, expecially in a time when we have thousands of well educated, talented and dynamic women who can do the job just as well or better.
This should be the rule if the alternative would be closing all semenaries. A father has a chiyuv to protect his daughter. He is not mechuyov to teach her torah other than what she needs for day to day activities, which she can learn from her mother just as her grandmother learned from her own mother.
When I once complained to Meisles abt his inappropriate personality, I said “rabbis just can’t be teaching in a girls’ schools!”
He replied, “listen, in an ideal world men wouldn’t teach women. But the fact is some girls wouldn’t accomplish the same things/ open up if it didn’t come thru someone like me (a charismatic male).”
Looking back now, this memory gives me the chills…
Wow – totally revolting. what a narcissist!!!
I respectfully disagree. This can be taken to an extreme, as it has been in Chassidish communities where men and women have to walk on different sides of the street, and there are separate shopping hours in the grocery stores. We have to live life NORMALLY. We are not living in prehistoric times with cave men. Men can control themselves and not act on their impulses. Men can and do function in society without ravishing any woman they desire.
That being said, perhaps men should not be giving extensive personal counseling to these young women whom they teach, without oversight. When they are counseling them, perhaps certain gedarim and protocols need to be put in place. Perhaps an independent, safe and reliable system of reporting of abuse needs to be implemented.
There are unfortunately many instances of male teachers and counselors abusing young boys. Should no boys go to cheder? There needs to be protective measures, education, and dependable protocols in place to prevent sexual abuse. Simply locking each human being up in a tower or separating men from women or separating men from boys is not the answer to the problem.
He once took pride in finding out that a girl, before going into his office every time, would do her makeup just for him. He told me this. I got nauseous..
He continued by saying that he “understood why”. In his words- “I’m open and welcoming, and a good-looking guy…” (I raised my brow when he so haughtily referred to himself as good-looking. This was when I said the line- “no offense, but you’re 40-something and you have a family. You’re not exactly on the top of my list of ‘attractiveness’.”)
He was innocently trying to explain to me why girls would fall for him…but I just knew deep down inside that he took pride in it. He KNEW very well what he was doing, it was scary. And he refused to stop. He loved it when there was a line outside his office for girls to talk to him. He made girls feel like the center of the universe for him.
When I complained about him another time, he said “I look at girls your age like the garbage man…why would I even be remotely interested?” But he had a half smirk on when he said it. I just could not totally believe him…if he wasn’t interested, then why did he so carelessly flirt with so many girls/ even some female staff members? It just didn’t make sense to me…I could never trust him, and it was so hard for me to accept that bc he gave me so much…but I never excused it….and now his deceitful past is out in the open…
Truthseeker, you are such a smart and perceptive young lady. I have also wondered if the reason so many staff/teachers have stood behind this man is because they were also molested/seduced and he has something on them. I wish you much Hatzlacha! thanks for your very informative and insightful posts.
I understand your motivation in your comments about the victims surely having done ‘teshuva’ but \i think you are in a serious error.
I do not understand why we should cede these cruel monsters the point that there is a need for the girls to do teshuva. “כאשר יקום וכו’ ורצחו נפש כן הדבר הזה” !!!!
While it might be possible that there are victims who might not have been all that naive that is דברים שבלב that only the victim and the One Above knows and unless a bas Yisroel asks a Torah-guide about if there is a need and how to do teshuva the assumption must be she was nothing but a victim and her דברים שבלב are none of our business!!!!
As long as molesters fail to own up to their despicable behavior, they shouldn’t expect people to cut them any slack. Owning up means:
1.) admitting to the behavior and acknowledging that it will take the rest of their lives to make amends; repudiating those who defend their indefensible behavior, 2.) acknowledging that they are forever disqualified from reentering their position (or anything similar), and never attempting to do so, 3.) apologizing to victims and compensating them, 4.) getting long- term therapy and doing whatever else it takes to keep their perversion under control as if their very life depends on it – because it does, and 5.) acting in a manner that does not even create the possibility of suspicion.
Did I leave anything out?
Joe:
I’m curious. Are you aware of any sex offenders that have actually done this?
Excellent question, Gary. Perhaps Yerachmiel can respond.
No, though I recognize the possiblity in theory. the notable exception is a teen who was himself abused and while still a teen is caught abusing another kid early in the process. Such teens are excellent candidates for probation and therapy and can often be deterred from further offenses.
I spoke to this issue at length in a post during the first month i was blogging (Oct. 2009), a fable about a rabbi Menachem Besdin. It is too long and I was still working on my writing skill, but a few of you might find it interesting.
A superb fable, YL. It is powerful, and, I believe that the length increases the otsma.
No. The one sexual predator that I’m personally familiar with hasn’t even come close to doing these things. Boruch Hashem he was caught red-handed and forced to resign in disgrace.
My point is that doing these things, difficult as they may be, is the one and only way the person can, at least in part, repair his destroyed reputation and legacy.
I want to re-post what someone wrote on another blog, which I think is very very true and important for people to know:
“Do you feel that a young and lustful Meisels was siting and contemplating what his best way to fill his lust would be…. Bingo – open up a seminary! Somehow mange to do a great job for many years. In fact open four seminaries??
That’s not what happened. When he began, he was a sincere person – who didn’t safeguard himself. He did not begin teaching in order to abuse girls.
He opened up seminaries in sincerity. His power (which came with his success) got to his head. Then, after he was so powerful and secure, the lustfest began…”
Having considered myself once somewhat “close” with Meisles, I completely concur with this entire post.
Hi everyone as I’ve seen all the comments and people trying to understand why he did it and the girls if it’s their fault or not please cut the crap the guy likes to touch girls and he didn’t keep his hands and other parts to himself so he cannot be trusted that’s it that’s all why make a whole litvishe pilpul out of it