QOTD – Shame on You Rabbi Eidensohn For Undoing Your Lifetime’s Work

QOTD = Quote of the Day

Rabbi Daniel Edensohn Daas Torah blog

Rabbi Daniel Edensohn
Daas Torah blog

Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,

I read your response to my post of Friday [8/22/14] with… profound sadness that a distinguished person who has done so much to make the world a safer place for children and all types of abuse victims, should forget all he learned, and all he wrote, and all we learned from him.

Many people who have had great respect for you have watched in the last two months as you have chosen to wage a truly bizarre campaign with only one obvious goal – participating in the minimizing, whitewash and cover-up of a painful scandal.

There is no need to rehash all the charges and counter-charges. Suffice it to say you have chosen to minimize, distract and obfuscate about an abuser and those who enabled him – you have put the wherewithal of the institutions and of three rabbonim, above the safety of the students.

I need to have no details beyond what was made public in statements by a reputable BD [Beis Din, i.e., rabbinic court]. The perpetrator engaged in conduct which included unwanted contact of a sexual nature. That is all that was said. No other details were released to the public, including, despite your requests, to your blog.

The BD also indicated that the activity in question should have warranted action by Senior faculty members,and some “failed in their responsibility to their students.” That is all I need to know.

Every one in the field considers these statements by the CBD [Chicago Beis Din] a courageous act.

David Morris

David Morris

Yet you have decided to orchestrate a classical ‘attack the victim,” “protect the institution,” “circle the wagons and shoot at anything that moves” scheme using all the time-honored techniques. Alleging they claimed Meisels had raped 40 people.I did not see that. Alleging there were no Victims. That cannot be true. Alleging none of this can be serious because the Victims have not gone to the police. As if all Charedi [ultra-orthodox Jewish] victims who live overseas normally travel to Israel to report to the police.

In short you are orchestrating a tired old scheme. You detail these schemes in the pages of your own book. These schemes, it must be said, have worked in the past.They may even work now.

Shame on you, my friend, for participating in the undoing of your lifetime’s work.

By David Morris as a response Rabbi Eiedensohn’s “Seminary Scandal: A rambling and misleading slander by David Morris” (8/24/14) which was response to Morris’ 8/22/14 post: “Meisels’ Victims.”

Advertisements

105 thoughts on “QOTD – Shame on You Rabbi Eidensohn For Undoing Your Lifetime’s Work

    • J,

      Your comment about the Rivky, Yoeli affair where she made up a bogus bais din and has been found lying be numerous courts shows that you are certainly no one to judge.

      • How do you know it was a bogus beis din, because the beis din didn’t return his calls?! Any three people who know the laws of gittin could be a beis din. Most batei dinim ,don’t return calls from quacks, as you can see the CBD didn’t give eidensohn the information he wanted, so he spoke lashon haroh rechilus ,etc against them.
        when it came to Weiss ,dodelson, he also claimed the beis din didn’t follow Halacha , and that beis din is accepted by everybody except those two eidensohn guys. So who do they hold of, the monsey beis din שער המשפט which nobody holds of, whose gittin aren’t accepted from anybody, yes, that’s whom the eidensohn boys hold of.
        And he should stop his widget on his page stating rivky doesn’t want a get, unless lying to the world is part of his personality.
        I’m happy people are starting to see thru him, it’s about time.

        • Mill Basin doesn’t have a Bais Din. There was no Bais Din at the address provided. None of the rabbis on the bogus Bais Din responded. The non existent Bais Din issued an illegal siruv without the participation of Weiss.

          Only 3 people qualified in hilchos Gittin can be a Bais Din for it. Kol mi shaino boki betiv gitin ukedushin lo yihiye lo aisek imahem.

          In the courts, the judges of this case declared that Rivky has no credibility and all the tear jerking is nothing but false generation of emotions to further an illegal cause.

        • Sam,

          I challenge you to contact Rivky’s Bais Din and provide me with a number where I can reach them. Only that Bais Din will do because they are the ones that issued the siruv.

  1. “The Seminary Scandal involved adults who were involved in either being touched or hugged by their teacher. It is not clear at this stage to what degree the contact was forced and unwanted or was consensual.” So I’m wondering, when parents sent their daughters to the seminaries, did they assume that their daughters were going to be adults who could make their own decisions about engaging in sexual contact with consensual partner or were they expecting more oversight?

      • I think Ms. Dot’s comment was intended to be ironic. Put even more strongly, did parents assume their daughters would be put in the position of making their own decisions when their rabbi, teacher and seminary head tried to seduce them? Was this nisayon — which might be compared to Potiphar’s wife’s attempted seduction of Joseph, given the difference in age and power — understood to be part of the curriculum?

    • Like many ordinary students in a multitude of public and private schools, they were just playing show and Telz…but afterward nobody was supposed to tell. Failure to abide by that simple rule is obviously the real cause of the problem.

  2. The bizarre role the two Eidenson mushchosim have played in this scandal is actually the only silver lining to appear so far around this latest cloud of shame brought upon us of ra bonim like Chaim Malinowitz.

    Their obsessive defense of all things Chaim Malinowitz reveals what many of us already knew – the two Eidenson quacks, like their patron saint, have major issues with the female half of the human race.

    • My recent email to Rabbi Eidensohn:
      I have lost interest in your blog, Daas Torah, Rabbi Eidensohm, though I was an avid reader for many years. Your biases against the CBD and for the IBD are obvious to any neutral observer. I know not a single one of any of the parties involved.

      But most disturbingly, your allowance of strong hints of identifying information in comments that personallly attack and the attempt to shame Truthseeker is TRULY UNCONSCIONABLE and something which as David Morris said, undoes the legacy of your lifetimes work. You need to do serious teshuva. Until you make a public apology for your shameful failure of moderation, I have no further interest in anything you have to say

  3. more like cya-otd. whenever someone says i read with profound sadness i want to smack them. sure. you mean im pissed but dont want to say it because im not willing to fight fairly.
    There’s plenty to attack in that post, but say something substantial instead of trying to end the fight before it began by decreeing eidensohn persona non grata. He doesn’t deserve this treatment at all. egos and bs. it reeks

    • Have you read the two posts that preceded this comment by David Morris. Morris did indeed raise specific questions and Eidensohn did indeed engage in a major attack with many points that were irrelevant. I made it a point to link to those two points in posting the above quote.

      • I didnt at first because eidensohn’s was rambling and tedious but i went back and red them. I still dont like morris’s response because of what i said, and i think the magen point eidenson made is accurate (its morris’s org but that isnt stated and where is the mention of going to police?). But you summed it up very well here and on facebook. I think you should write your take on it because it seems clear and unbiased

  4. I read your comments with profound sadness. Not because I am p’d off but because your poor command of the written word is a reflection of the sad state of Orthodox education.

    • Chacham VeNavon,
      Very likely you are, (LOL, wish i were) but it is immediately crystal clear to me, that there is no way in heck that this Avi person is a frum person. And I am not referring to his current status or practice. The person who wrote that comment was not brought up frum. period. No way in the world. So, does that suggest that the RDE has a groupie non-ortho following??? Seems to me, highly unlikely, BWDIK. or does it suggest that Avi is a paid poster. In any case, his English is abysmal but not due to being brought up in a Yeshiva. “trust me” on this. This AVI is not the result of a Yeshiva education, no matter how lax or how stringent. NO WAY. (unless he went OTD at age 7) but in that case, wth is he doing as a groupie on DT? So that is the Emet.

      • I wish people would stop veering off into characterizing and assuming about commenters and stick to what they say. It would be different if you knew them in the real world. But all you have here is what they say.

        • Exactly, that is what i am responding to, what he wrote, and how, that is not yeshivish talk, no way, absolutely no way. So therefore, i conclude, that it is a ghostwriter, or paid poster. i know nothing about this person, but he is not a Yeshivah bochur not making any other judgments, if you were directing your comment to me, as it appears. I am ONLY going by what he said, and HOW. Words are very telling. LOL even at the maligned YCT, (for those who only know charedi, the maligned Yeshivat Chovevei Torah, considered very left wing). afilu, no one there could/would write in the linguistic style of this avi poster, I rest my case. But, acknowledge your point….YL.

      • I think that the core commentators on DT are baaley t’shuva who paradoxically cling to those aspects of halacha that they thing gives them the right to act as “navalim birshut torah”. There are so many instances of ill understood, very superficial pseudo-torah they spit out…

        • I think characterizing the core commentators on his blogs as BT may well be inaccurate. More important, I think it is a slur on baalei teshuva. Baalei teshuva span the spectrum of orthodoxy and the spectrum of responses to abuse, and the spectrum of mastery of Jewish knowledge. Granted they start late at mastering a difficult textual corpus. However, many ignorant statement can come from FFBs including many guys who have spent years in Yeshiva.

          For example I have had many Satmar guys insist that a child molester can only be found culpable by testimony of two adult male witnesses. That shows they learned some essentials of the hilchos eidus but were ignorant of how most battei din function on most matters in the period past the destruction of the temple. They are right about the requirements of a beis din for inflicting the punishment of 39 lashes. This grows out of learning talmud but not practical knowledge of how battei din function. I could cite many other examples of astounding ignorance by males who are FFB and grew up with full-time education in rabbinics (often to the exclusion of secular education). Similarly, there are many FFBs who completely misunderstand the rules of mesira (snitching) or loshon horah (gossip).

          On the whole I think baalei teshuva are sincere and do not seek to be a naval bireshus hatorah (lowlifes but technically within the bounds of Jewish law). That I am afraid is more common among FFBs.

  5. what is going on at the DT site is beyond words….it has become a forum to bash TS…he is allowing all sorts of comments aimed at destroying her and “outing” her letting through personal information that likely is not from former Peninim students, but from meisels himself….even giving her initials….

    terrible. here is what i tried to post on dt

    rabbi eidensohn,

    quite disgusting that you have allowed this blog to turn into a bash truth seeker forum.

    it is beyond horrible to see what is going on. you have people who are trying to destroy this girl’s reputation….by referring to her as dishonest, having no friends, illogical, her own family is against her, all her x friends are against her…and then getting even more personal by stating that Meisels did so much for her by allowing her in for free and paying for her therapy. Wow! This is so disgustingly low and reminds me of how Rabbi Belsky sponsored a blog or two whose sole intent was to investigate and publicize the names of the anonymous bloggers who were trying to bring down Kolko! At least, in that case there was some merit to the fact that the blogger was engaging in “not respectful” tactics. But here, this girl is a simple commenter and has never said a disrespectful word about anyone…other than state her opinion and you allow this to become a place to “out” her. This is beyond shameful and I am afraid that this sin will be too much for you to bear. She is a total innocent even if you may disagree with her take.

    Then, you even allow someone to put her initials! And to add on other identifying family traits! What would you like to do? Blacklist her from finding a shidduch??? Have your lost any sense of decency?

    • Elimelech & Minions: Leave the poor girl alone. Terrorist tactics will not work. Remember – your organization enjoys tax exempt status in the US (Do you think the IRS wants to underwrite the serial sexual abuse of students?).
      Do Not Make It Worse – call off the attacks.

      • P_P,
        I hope and pray that you will be the prosecuting attorney. he blocked me today, first time ever tried to comment, he had major Freudian slip. re integrity of Jack, and then hours later, he fixed it. I politely commented on the Freudian slip, and said, “thank you” it shows that somewhere inside there is still a part of you….. blocked, erased, no msg, no nothing and couple of hours later, he fixed it.
        I am appalled and disgusted, and wish that no one on this site would respond, post, comment there, consider him dead. Can the minions here do that? I know that I am incited to post re irrational illogical comments, which work me up, and which is the worst time for me to respond, cause then, YL (LOL) indicts me for indecency. really. he is right, he has high standards for his site, no one else does.

        Comparable to the IDF which does everything in the world to save civilian lives. Phone calls, cell phone calls, calls to neighbors, dropping leaflets, pamphlets to evacuate areas, and then, the final ‘knock on the roof” of a drone, signalling that within 5 minute or so, the house will be destroyed. Hamas exhorts the Gaza-im to stay put, and they are, evidently more afraid of Hamas than of the rockets from Israel. What other country on the face of the earth today or over past centuries, has ever gone to such extraordinary attempts, to avoid civilian casualties. Never in the history of civilization, has any country been so moral in a wartime situation.

        the comparison to DT , is simply, he is mentally ill. I wish everyone would just ignore his entire blog, completely, lachalutin. ignore him and his cohorts, reall or paid. Can FF people, restrain , refrain from reading responding??? I know that for me that would be very hard……. once involved.
        But, all things considered, that is the most preferred action, or rather, non-reaction. Ignore the mentally ill. Dai v’gamarnu. Chevrah, can you do it????? From now, total black out on DT. Is that a reasonable possibility, i now a few of you are intertwined here, and hard to extricate, todah la;el that i only once tried to post re a Freudian slip of his today, to Jack. it disappeared, and a few hours later, he fixed his error. I actually thanked him for his Freudian slip, for it showed that he still had some humanity. One or two sentences. they disappeared, no error msg, and then he fixed it a few hours later.

        Can we move ahead and forget the existence of DT, COMPLETELY, lachalutin???

    • Assuming that many of those comments really are from other former students and their parents (assuming they are not just sockpuppets and impersonators by Meisels and his family members or sem staff) it is very disturbing and sickening to me that those who were not abused exhibit this cultlike behavior to gang up on, attack, and try to discredit the victims and in this case truthseeker who apparently was not abused and is merely speaking openly about what went on in the place. If everything that happened there was so kasher, there wouldn’t be any problem with her sharing details about it. When they attack and try to discredit her, they are basically saying nothing improper happened there and thus are attacking the victims too.

    • The cruelty of the people there is unfathomable. They are using little pieces of identifying information to try to out TS. Literally middas S’dom that Eidensohn is letting those comments through. Someone even suggested that “Gottesman or Lopin” can go find her a shidduch if she’s outed. True cruelty. Not online banter, but cruelty that extends into a person’s personal space.

      If Eidensohn wanted reasoned talk, then he would cut out comments like those. After all, there is some room to debate. Yet, I am beginning to think that he wants these insults to continue. I further don’t understand, for someone who considers himself a talmid chochom and ossurs lashon hara, how he could allow such disgusting insults to the CBD. He himself speaks with such disdain about them. All of a sudden such talk isn’t only muttar, but rather a mitzvah.

      And finally, ever notice how ANYONE who disagrees with him either
      1) Doesn’t know anything about anything
      2) Is ignorant about basic halacha
      3) Didn’t read the post
      4) Is an idiot, or
      5) “Gottesman!!!!!!!!!”

      The CBD is included in the above categories according to Eidensohn. What’s happening there is a true abomination. I can’t describe it any other way. Kudos to you, Jack, for giving it your level best.

      • Commentators drew his attention to the fact that if he wanted a serious blog, he should stop insulting his readers or commentators. To no avail. I think that some very polite comments to this effect were even censored.

  6. and by the way, it is was quite obvious to anyone reading these comments that TS admired Meisels and was likely very much helped by him…though she never did share personal details….so the fact that she was “idolized” him does not make her a “crazy” person….yes, she did once idolize him…he did help her…she gained from the schools..even went for shana beit…that is all consistent with her initial comments…where she thought meisels had acted inappropriately but defended the schools…she did mention that she had tried to stop it…but clearly she still maintained a relationship with him…probably never imagining just how low this guy was…

    it was only after she called CBD and found out just how terrible the situation really was that there was no room for sefaikos…I recall her reacting in horror right after she spoke to the CBD for the first time and then reacting quite emotionally after Kahane’s letter went out….and I guess at that point it hit her that there were some who could have done something but did not…yet she still finds much good in the schools.

    So you piece of garbage Meisels or whoever is posting the garbage about her…and to DT, you despicable lowlife of a human being (not for your positions on this case…some of what you said had some logic…but for your trying to take down the one whistleblower…for that you are a sick human being who needs to publicly beg for forgiveness) all that you have said about TS in an effort to discredit her is actually not news and does not make her look bad. It all may very well be true….difficult time in high school perhaps, not a rich family….”liked” Meisels…the school went out of their way to help her….all true….but unlike the dozens of other peninim girls who can fit the same description and who still can not fact the facts, TS decided it is time to speak up for what is right and not continue to protect their idol…and by the way, it seems that TS did try over the years to do something as she has related.. even if she was conflicted and did maintain contact.

    SO if you want to “out” TS why don’t you out every single peninim girls whose life story may very well match that of TS.

  7. well here is the first of I am sure many sick responses to my comment over at DT.

    Honesty Jack • an hour ago
    But here, this girl is a simple commenter and has never said a disrespectful word about anyone

    Oh. She didn’t slander and disparage the IBD? Oh. She didn’t slander and disparage the seminary teachers. (She even went as far as calling Rabbi Eidensohns blog low – um, while commenting on frum folies! lol)

    Oh. She’s not engaged in trying to give all former students a bad name. Hmm.

    Blacklist her from finding a shidduch???

    Whats the big deal? A truthseeker who’s exposing the truth and outing the bad rabbis is a negative? Why doesn’t she want a shidduch with a guy who’ll respect her bravery? Why would she even want a shidduch with a guy who would think negative of her truthseeking? Yuck to such snobbish guys. Lopin and Gottesman can help her find a shidduch.


    I’m looking forward to Gottesman’s spokesman, “Moshe” to post a silly response.

  8. and my response

    honesty,

    you are quite a sick human being.

    She began commenting on YL because that is where the story broke. She did not disparage any teachers except for those who she believes could have done something…and anyone with half a brain will admit that Kahane’s letter was perverse to say the least. As to the IBD, well she spoke to the CBD and was told about all the things that Meisels did and was able to share her story…then she speaks to IBD and is basically told take a number…so she reported back. Big deal. That is not called bashing.

    so you believe her so called crime justifies destroying her shidduchim. you are one sick and vicious person

  9. Daas Torah Mod Jack • 14 minutes ago
    @Jack you are suffering from a bad case of poor reading comprehension or perhaps you don’t like your ox being gored.

    When truthseeker bashes the IBD or myself then you have no problem with you rude comments. But if itt is pointed out that she is at best seriously misinterpreting the information if not making up lies – then you get all misty eyed. Do you know the young lady? What exactly do you claim is not true that has been said about her?

    Your outrageous distortion that she is a mere “commentator” again indicates you are out of touch with reality or simply can’t read. Trashing the IBD is not simply stating her opinion. Her comments were extremely disrepectful – contrary to your bizzarre perception.

    What is she innocent of?

    The bottom line is if she insists on making very negative allegations which are at variance with her fellow students – she has every right to be criticized for it.

    The only defense for not revealing her is that she is fragile and can’t deal with it. But that is not your message.

    You obviously have lost all sense of decency as well as honesty in your comments.

  10. Jack • a few seconds ago
    Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by Daas Torah.
    DT,

    You are wrong. Plain and simple. I am no hack for TS. In fact, I posted a comment to her over at FF defending your past work including some of the aguna stuff.

    Perhaps you can explain what is “outrageous” about my calling her a commenter. What do you think she is? Enlighten me.

    Her comments are at odds with her fellow students? you mean the ones who unfortunately can not accept that their idol is a sex-craved animal??? I am sorry a hug-craved animal according to your wonderful way of examining the facts.

    So you are concerned more about her “bashing” the IBD or yourself? Which one is it? Sorry that your kavod has been stepped on, but as you must admit your one sided view is quite obvious to all.

    you claim she is misinterpreting or lying…yet she has merely reported what the CBD told her….oh I forgot, the CBD does not count…only your buddy at the IBD speaks the truth.

    And by the way…even R Burstyn from LA states that R Cohen told him that Meisels did 99% of Kol Davar Assur….yet you continue your silly reinterpretation that all Meisels did was hug.

    Wake up and reclaim your reputation or whatever is left of it.

  11. correct facts please Jack • 36 minutes ago
    No one is trying to destroy her rep, calm down Jack. Just trying to clarify the issues and correct misinformation. Nothing wrong with that. No need to get all worked up. If someone is inaccurate in ways that severely hurt other people, they will likely have people call her on it and it may not be so comfortable. That was a gamble she took when she distorted facts. She has hurt and incriminated innocent, genuine teachers by making up stories and and putting them on a blog. That needs to be cleared up.

  12. Daas Torah Mod Jack • an hour ago
    @Jack your description of her comments is severely distorted. Or perhaps you don’t know what the word “bashing” means. Alternatively you used one vocabulary to describe bashiing of the CBD and another one to describe bashing of the IBD.

    The young lady ran into the the crowded theater and merely commented in a loud voice “Fire!” The fact that 20 people were trampled to death by the resulting panic is not her fault – right?

  13. Daas Torah Mod Jack • 18 minutes ago
    @Jack I answered your questions in my recent comments to you. If you still don’t get it – there is not much I can do.

    Trying to reframe this into a concern for my kavod simply is intellectually honest. or says much about your integrity.

    Again there has not been any evidence presented so far that Meisels is a “sex-craved animal”. If Rabbis Feurst and Cohen really believed it – instead of leaking those comments – they should contact the police. How can they let a sex-crazed animal walk the streets?

    Jack – bottom line your comments sound like someone who knows the young lady and is scared that she can not handle the natural consequences of what she has done. But trying to trash me – is not the way to deal with that problem.

  14. Jack • a minute ago
    Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by Daas Torah.

    correct facts – i consider trying to destroy her rep when you leak all sorts of info about her financial ability, therapy, family, etc…

    you are a big fraud.

    DT,

    instead of trying to psychoanalyze everyone, use some common sense. your strawman that you keep on repeating about calling the police is falacious at best. It doesn’t take a Rabbi or psychiatrist to know that there is no calling the police in a case where the victims were over 18 and perhaps consented to some degree…so cut your nonsense and try to inject a bit of honesty into your conversation. if that is your “checkmate” critique of the CBD, boy are you a lousy chess player! Oh sorry, your real checkmate is that the CBD has not divulged to the great DT the exact nature of the sexual activity…therefore it must be it was just a hug. Great logic…not.

    • How, exactly, (and I have asked him this directly) does DT know that the police WEREN”T called? Just how does he know?

      • Of course he doesn’t. But he is desperate to outflank the CBD as victim advocates by portraying them as lax. Alternatively he is playing the card of either they called the police or it was a mere consensual hug. He of course wrote the book on this stuff and knows better all the degrees between and all the reasons why victims don’t report abuse.

        He has gotten so eager to protect the IBD from justified criticism that he is swinging madly to malign the CBD.

        This is sad for someone who did a lot of good in the past. But this is what happens when you let your favorites interpret reality for you.

  15. @Jack – sorry but you are wrong. The fact that an 18 year old was raped by someone who is likely to attack others – then there is a need to call the police to protect others. A therapist who knows of someone who will harm others has an obligation to violate client confidentiality.

    You are simply swinging widely and foolishly. Why not stop making an idiot out of yourself – your don’t have your facts straight, you don’t have your halacha straight and you don’t know secular law.

  16. DT

    You deliberately misquote me. I never said “raped”…quite clearly, there is no rapist on the loose..therefore, no one is calling the police. If I were you, I would give up that argument….it makes you look like an imbecile.

    As to your hug argument…well there is not much for me to say. The stupidity is so obvious.

    Did it ever occur to you that you are the one swinging wildly and making a big fool out of yourself? or is your ego so inflated that the thought never popped into your mind?

  17. i hope it is quite clear that eidensohn is a real nut….he is totally devoid of logic as can be seen by my exchange with him and unfortunately he has a horde of loyal sycophants. sad.

  18. I tried to comment on DT and got this:

    We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Daas Torah. Find out more.
    

    What a loser!

    • You are not the only one. He censors comments that do not thread the party line…

      All the more, he should be held accountable for the comments he publishes.

      As many commentators stated here: the self-named “Daas-torah”-blog is really anti-torah, because it shows a collection of the most negative aspects of torah as it is practiced by haredim: it consistently denigrates gerim, defends get-extortion (see comments about the Weiss-Dodelson case), bashes rabbanim and now defends cover-up of sexual abuse.

  19. Jack,

    WADR, responding to anything the Eidensons write only feeds their delusion that they are relevant to someone besides their handful of fellow misogynistic fellow travelers.

    They and Chaim Malinowitz are at the forefront of twisting halachah to justify the actions of men who couldn’t keep their wives happy in a normal fashion so instead keep them prisoner by refusing to get help and give a get.

    I suspect all of them, the Eidenson Freaks and Chaim Malinowitz have major Mommy issues and are taking it out on anyone who reminds them of Mom.

    Truly pathetic behavior but we risk encouraging more of it by pretending it is worthy of consideration.

  20. the reason I am commenting on dt until the guy blocked me is to help TS a bit as I am sure she is feeling very threatened and pressured by the character attack on her. I believe we have all benefited from her insight since the beginning of this scandal so don’t we owe it to her to let our voices be heard on the cesspool called daas torah.

    • Jack, you are right. And we should all go to the DT website and respectfully ask him to remove the identifying details of TS. I think it is wrong to out someone’s identity if they have tried to keep it private by posting anonymously. Eidenson is “outing” TS’s identity by approving those identifying comments to be publically posted on his blog. Hopefully he will at the very least redact those comments, at least out of mentchlichkeit, human decency and respect for someone’s privacy.

      Thank you Jack for standing up for what is right. Let’s all do our part now to try to respectfully request from Rabbi Eidensohn to remove the identifying details of TS that were posted as comments on his blog. I think we owe TS at least that much.

      • Mentchlichkeit, decency and respect???

        From the two Eidenson mushchosim!

        HAH!

        Thanks. I needed a good laugh.

  21. What is the purpose of quoting or referencing the clueless shmegegis who attack the CBD or any of the brave people who came forward?

  22. TS – I just wanted to send you a virtual cyber-hug (from one female to another). I am sure it’s very difficult for you right now. Please hang in there, and please know that you are on the right side of truth and have many supporters. We are all rooting for you. You are smart for not commenting any more about DT and just ignoring them.

    I just wanted to thank you TS, and all those who reached out to the Chicago Beis Din and tried to help validate victims and tried to help prevent future victims this coming year and in the future. You are all heroes. TS – keep the faith and hang in there, albeit blogingly-silent, for now. We are on your team and rooting for you. We believe in you.

  23. Seriously?

    Thanks for responding, I saw your post on DT and it was very respectful…not that DT deserves any respect. His response to follow shows what an animal this guy really is. Zero decency to say the least.

    I hope that Lopin puts up a post dealing with this sick animal’s treatment of TS which is not only sickening but also serves to put a warning to anyone who might follow her….”if you dare try, we will take you down.”

    Daas Torah Mod Seriously? • 7 hours ago
    @Seriously? I don’t see the pressing need for concealing that which is already known. When someone seeks to use publicly media to severely crticize others – they have no inherent right to not having aspects of their identity revealed.

    The desire to be able to trash others while hiding behind anonymity is not an inherent right . The fact that many others felt her comments were unfair means that revealing her identity in part is defending the reputation of those she maligned.

    In other words she wasn’t an innocent victim of malicious people who revealed her identity to hurt her. She in fact inititated public attacks on others and they revealed information purely as a defensive tactic. When child abuse advocates repeat that sunlight is the best disinfectant – it has broader implication than the right to publish allegations against suspected child abusers.

    Anyone who feels it important to criticize others in public media – should accept the possiblity that their identity will be revealed. And be prepared to pay the price.

    However if she would like to contact me explaining why it is important to her – then I would consider whether there is any justification for taking time to censor comments about her. Alternatively she can write a guest post explaining why her identity should be concealed

    I think it is disgusting that her critical comments were gleefully published when it meant discomfort to specific others but when she became the focus of criticims – suddenly it is not fair that she should have to accept personal responsiblity for these comments.

    • And does Eidensohn, the PHd therapist, think it is appropriate to divulge that Truthseeker had gone to therapy, which is ethically and professionally confidential information!?! Also the fact that she went to therapy is meant to insinuate that she is somehow untrustworthy or unstable, which is an ASTOUNDINGLY BIZARRE implication to be facilitated by a PhD therapist and victims advocate who allowed this vicious personal attack against TS on his blog. By facilitating this kind of invasive personal attack against TS, Eidensohn implies that anyone who seeks therapy perhaps should not be trusted. And such a man claims to be a provider of therapuetic services and a victims advocate? Therapeutic clients are often the bravest, most forthright, and and honest people in being willing to face life issues head on. Eidensohn should surrender his PhD if.he views his therapeutic clients as being somehow prone to dishonesty.

        • Good point, YL, that we do not know If TS actually had a therapist. It was only a claim by a commentator. But just the attempt to violate confidentiality and discredit a person’s character by Eidensohn allowing comments professing to know that TS had a therapist is shockingly innapropriate and lacking in any professional ethics on Eidensohns part. Why should anyone trust such an unethical and professionally compromised person as Eidensohn for therapy?

          • I would add on that there is something revolting about trying to beat someone for taking a scholarship. As Jews, given our standards for tzedaka, it is grievously offensive to reveal who is or isn’t on scholarship, let alone try to shame them with that fact. After all, the lowest level of tzedaka is doing it in a way designed to shame the recipient.

      • In addition, for many people, therapy can be used as a means to spiritual growth and self-actualization, and the fact that a person is in therapy should not be automatically viewed as a mum. It says nothing about whether a person is sane, rational, trustworthy, believable, etc etc. It is bad enough they are trying to discredit TS or any victim or any student who wishes to share info about the school to those who are SUPPOSED to be making sure it is cleaned up and made safe. (If all the info is not shared, how will they make it safe? I just cannot understand the opposition of these sycophants to TS). What makes it worse is when people have this kind of reaction to the notion of therapy and then pasul people. Very immature. An even wider net of people they are attacking with their vitriol.

        • I agree with your sentiments about therapy and about the bashing by Eidensohn and his chevrah of nasty commenters. However, in addition, TS just wasn’t in therapy. Not that it matters, but they invented that and other facts about her to discredit her.

    • I dont think there was any glee on the part of YL or frankly anyone else in discovering this shocking series of allegations nor bringing them to light.
      There are laws as well as professional obligations that prevent professionals from divulging confidential information.
      Victims, or alleged victims, of sexual crtimes are granted anonymity. For example, the women who alleged that a (former) Israeli president — who is an orthoodox Jew –sexually assaulted them were granted anonymity. He is now serving a lengthy prison sentence. (No one who might have been able to offer evidence that questioned the integrity of these women could do so since their identities were kept a secret.)

      I do not recall anyone, including the owner of the DT blog site, protesting this state of affairs.

      To try to disclose the identity of someone such as TS as a way to intimidate direct victims is a novel approach for a psychotherapist and calls into question whether that person can be fully trusted.

  24. We should thank the Eidenson Mushchosim for warning everyone away from Chaim Malinowitz and the three Israeli Ra Bonim who claim to be a bais din.

    Eidenson & Malinowitz are obviously very concerned with the safety, emotional health and dignity of Miesels victims. NOT.

    The two have exposed their true selves.

    Angry middle aged men with huge unresolved Mommy issues, letting it all out on any female who dares wish to be more than silent, barefoot, prepregnant and confined to the kitchen.

    What a couple of losers.

  25. PP

    You said it succinctly and correctly.

    There are no words to describe how cruel this guy is. Let’s put it into perspective for a moment. The holy IBD that Daas Schmatta is supporting deemed it unnecessary to even mention Meisel’s name in their “psak.” No need for anyone to know. But Daas Schmatta thinks it is necessary to let the world know the name of the girls who actually had the courage to say something.

    So in his warped mind, it is more important to expose TS than Meisels. What a mental midget.

    Wait…it all makes sense…Meisels never “insulted” Daaas Schmatta, but TS has the gall to “insult” DS…if you dare insult DS, than you deserve worse treatment than Meisels. This makes so much sense. I can’t believe I ever thought otherwise.

    Midas Sodom is a compliment to this lowlife!

  26. Chacham VNAvon,

    I hope YL will let this through as I think it is somewhat on topic.

    While I agree with most of what you are saying..I do not agree at all with:

         Angry middle aged men with huge unresolved Mommy issues, letting it all out on any female        who dares wish to be more than silent, barefoot, prepregnant and confined to the kitchen.
    

    You sound too much like a womens’ libber (you certainly spew their party line and talk like you are coming to save the poor women whom orthodox judaism has subjugated for so many years) which is a destructive societal force and any frum person should reject it as incompatible with judaism. And no…I did not say that women need to be in the kitchen ALL DAY. I understand that society change and women do work, etc…but let’s recognize that G-D gave us different roles and in truth it is immature to think that equal means doing the exact same things. In fact, the whole movement stems from a poor sense of self worth and an incapacity to accept their role because of jealousy of what they deemed to be the “better” lives of men. While of course certain ills needed to be corrected…that does not make the womens’ lib movement holy or necessary in the least bit.

    And so .I do not think it is correct to say he is against women. I took this up with TS as well…until Lopin said it was off topic…which it was at that time..

    For one, DS seems to be taking that Beth Schlesinger’s side..so how is he anti-woman?

    Second, as much as I now despise Daas Schmatta, his take on the weiss scandal is really not wrong. While not knowing all the details, I strongly believe that there are plenty of women who take advantage of the natural sympathy that men have for a women who cries for help. These women should not receive a pass and should not be treated as agunas…in the Weiss case, the wife took the baby one day and went home to her parents. this is a perfect example of a girl who is not an aguna..She started a war and put the husband at a disadvantage by stealing (yes, stealing…the child belongs to both father and mother) his child. therefore, the husband had every right to negotiate and use the get as leverage. Her PR campaign was disgusting..She hijacked the “AGUNA” plight of others and used it for her own self interest. Beyond low. PLease do not demand that the husband play it fair while not demanding the same from the wife. Sometimes, the only tool a husband has against a vindictive wife is the get. So be it.

    Same thing can be said for abuse…Any true advocate of victims does not want people who are not victims to start making noise as if they are victims for we all know that false claims will destroy the credibility of those making true claims.

    So any true advocate for agunas should be equally appalled when people like Weiss and others abuse the aguna issue.

    • We are now getting deep into the particulars of another case. The post in no way attacks Eidensohn’s position on Gittin. Most of the discussion here focused on Eidensohn’s approach to the Meisels’ seminaries, and more specically, there was a lot of discussion of his mistreatment of TS. If we go at any length into the arguments about gittin the discussion will go totally off-track. I think it best for people to agree to disagree about gittin issues.

    • Jack:
      You write “let’s recognize that G-d gave us different roles and in truth it is immature to think that equal means doing the exact same things”. Thank you for pointing out that the charedi world considers the male’s place in the Kollel l”lomdim yom v’layla” and the woman’s place to provide parnassah. So right you are, women do not have to be in the kitchen all day, and in fact, cannot, unless our avrech married someone with highly affluent parents….
      Thank you Jack, for clarity in this issue. Good to see people of your madrega accepting reality.

      • But actually, women were supposed to be mothers and men earners. Not women working to support men in the Kollel. That is against both the original assignment of roles in Bereshis and the ketubah. Nowhere does the ketubah talk of a woman’s obligation to support a husband. Moreover there are longstanding positions in the shulchan aruch against a man not working for a living.

  27. CV,

    If it is off topic why did you raise it?

    Your response is off topic. You might want to respond with Chachma and Binah. We are criticizing DS and it would behoove us all to criticize him intelligently…when you throw barbs at him just because you may empathize with the lib movement…it destroys the true critique of him which is his disgusting and unprofessional treatment of TS,

    • I call them as I see them and when I read the garbage on the Eidenson Gang’s website I see two deeply disturbed people.

  28. Let’s focus on the financial aspects. These four seminaries were cash cows for the Meisel family and employed many people in one well connected and intertwined clique. There were many interested parties who are trying very hard to prop up these schools.
    Since these schools lost their accreditation for college credits and financial aid, it is only a matter of time till they close.
    Let’s focus on the fact that, ultimately, this fiasco will come to an end. (Thought experiment: Can you imagine any school counselor recommending Pninim to a High School Senior this year?)

    • What does it mean that they lost accreditation? There are two separate issues here:

      (a) Financial aid: The way it works is that if you’re on their Israel program, it’s as if you’re attending HTC or Touro for that year. That’s how you get financial aid. Otherwise, the US gov will not pay for you to attend a foreign college. So if those schools said that they are no longer on our program, fine.

      (b) Getting transfer credit: If a student attends P’ninim, generally she can give the transcript to a college and get Judaic Studies credits. If you’re telling me that HTC and Touro will no longer take these as transfer credits, that’s something else, and that’s big stuff.

      So it might be that (a) is true but not (b). Someone in the known please clarify.

        • Yerachmiel,

          I’m pretty angry here. I respect that you respect DT, but I apologize , that animal needs to be ostracized. He is an unhinged animal. He and his tactics are sick and offensive and anyone who claims to have a phd in psychology (I do own his books) who is that unmeasured in his opinionated points-of-view, his aggressive comments, his negius in all matters when he claims to be “unbiased” and “halachic,” and his despicable and bullying attacks, needs some serious help. As you well know, there is nothing worse in our communities than Rabbis flaunting there “I’m a talmid chochom degress or scholarship” or people flaunting there degrees like “I have a Phd” or a “JD” and Eidensohn does both. YL it’s got to stop, you need to write a post taking him down. (On top of that he was terribly rude to you in that “satirical” piece he wrote about you). I love it when you called him Rabbi “I am only following halacha,” what a faker he is. A thug. And does not deserve your respect and praise, regardless of what he has done previously.

          More importantly, I can’t find where DT “outed” Truthseeker like is being claimed here. I see the back and forth he has justifying he did it, but even if he retracted it, if he for one second told personal details about Truthseeker he is a sick person stoking the fires of vigilantes and is “asid litan es hadin” (about a lot of things). Similarly to how Russell Simmons tweeted out George Zimmerman’s alleged address during the Trayvon Martin trial and those people almost got killed. I see where someone writes her name and it is sort of xxed out, and I’m happy it is. But I can’t see where he said she is in therapy or details. I don’t care if she is or not, it makes no difference. Truthseeker we’re proud of you and More POWER to you! Keep on fighting with all the victims! Hashem should bless you and give you peace. It’s time we fight back against that bully and animal. And the way Malinowitz writes his letters in hebrew kneged Rav Aharon Feldman shlit”a with such chutzpah and the entire CBD (where does he get a nerve), he seems like a clear bully and toughguy as well. Take them down and get him (DT) off his “high” of being a power blogger when he is truly a powerhungry bully and intimidator.

          • My respect for him is declining quite rapidly. Eidensohn is doing something worse than outing. He is using proxies through the comments he allows and defending the option of outing and defaming truthseeker in other ways. Specifically, he wrote in the body of the post:

            ” You ever hear of “hakozak hanigzal”? –attack the BD,make it impossible for them to gather evidence, threaten everyone (including a member of the BD!!!! ) with a lawsuit, serve him papers ,meaning the threat becomes a reality, cut off funding and credits from the seminaries throwing their very existence into question, attack Yarmish incessantly–and then cry and scream that the Beis Din is not meeting to do its job!!
            Truth-seeker indeed.”

            This is especially absurd because Truthseeker has nothing to do with the lawsuit or Gottesman or attacks on Yarmush. The attacks on Truth Seeker are a red herring designed to distract readers from the real issues.

            The IBD is playing the “Beis Din Game” and Eidensohn is their publicity department. The game consists of undermining an existing BD by setting up a counter and hiding behind halachic rationales and complexities to muddy the issue. So for example they say they have to give the defendants the right to confront the accusations by having the complainant testimony only given in front of the defendants. That sounds reasonable to some. But in fact, the Av beis din, R. Shafran published a psak saying this was not necessary sex abuse cases because of the witness intimidation factor. Moreover, the shtar berurin (arbitration agreement) for this case signed by all the defendants explicitly allowed for testimony given without the defendants present. So this is halachic hokum. This is not about halacha. It is blatantly about intimidating witnesses.

            So having said all this, why am I not doing more point by point attacks on Eidensohn? Because the Beis Din game consists of getting everybody caught up in arguing the details which leaves 95% of the world behind as they watch arguments being lobbed back and forth faster than a tennis volley at Wimbledon. While some of you commenting the most are practically up to date on the blow-by-blows, this seems like fighting that discredits both sides. That is the point of the beis din game. They cannot win the argument, but they can settle with having the world lose any confidence that it can intelligently argue for what is right.

            I would rather have Eidensohn be, and seem to be, seen as an argumentative bickering creature and confine my posts to substance and important developments.

            This isn’t just a question of satisfying our emotions. It is about keeping our eye on the prize. Eidensohn discredited himself in his attack on me in his lame attempt at satire. When someone is self-destructing, just get out of the way and let them finish the job. the goal is to play offense and to play it for the right message. The message is what the CBD is putting out — Meisels is a serial menuval and the seminaries cannot be trusted because of staff complicity. The other key message is that the seminaries are lurching towards financial and legal meltdown. If we can reach enough people with that message, the Eidensohn claims are implicitly invalidated and ridiculed.

            In the end, the target audience for our messages are the parents making enrollment decisions.

            Why waste time arguing with Eidensohn. He has shown that he is just not capable of conceding when he is wrong and that he does not listen.

        • To YL@08/27/2014 at 3:24 pm:
          Isn’t the paragraph “You ever hear of ‘hakozak hanigzal’?…” from the IBD itself? That paragraph is preceded by the heading: “The IBD replied to Truthseek’s letter:”

        • There had been talk that the seminaries would receive accreditation via another US institution. So nothing came/will come of that?

          • The purported route is Excelsior College which charges a some $400+/credit (in contrast to Touro & HTC which charge about $1,000 for an entire year of credit. However, I have heard reports I am trying to confirm that Excelsior has become aware of the scandal and has or will pull its accreditation. Even if one could get accreditation from Excelsior the cost would exceed the potential government aid in almost every case.

  29. The whole situation is ironic in the sense that obviously Elimelech won’t be around to personally threaten – however – who wants their young impressionable girls in the clutches of mechanchim who were – how do we say this delicately – unaware? What is the point of sending the girls? For the religious education – what kind of role model/education is it?

  30. Off topic but please post,
    After posting over and over with hundreds of comments that the mill beis din doesn’t exist, and the dayanim are fake, now eidensohn admits he got it all wrong. And get this, he needed a sign affidavit to convince him.
    To eidensohn ,do your research before you destroy someone, it’s to late for any apologies. You never had any proof to begin with. It shows you that any information on his blog could be just a figment of his imagination. Now time to apologize for your claims on the heilogur CBD.

  31. Anyone who calls his blog “daas torah” and authors a book called “daas torah” needs his head checked.

    Hello??!

    • you obviously never looked at the book.
      Now that the indisputable gedolai hador have lined up behind the 4 seminaries……… how many of you are honest enough to retract your bashings??

  32. Here’s a fantastic quote from Genendy Eisgrau’s blog.

    “Attacking an alleged victim’s mental health to prove non credibility, is as ridiculous as using a broken bone to prove that someone could not have been in a car accident.”

    http://genendyspeaks.blogspot.com/2014/08/message-to-vaad-harabonim-of-baltimore.html

    Genendy is a courageous survivor of incest, a founding member of Magen (a Child Protection Agency in Beit Shemesh), and one of my personal heroes.

    • I’ll add to Genendy’s wise words:

      The same is true for sexual abuse victims who are OTD or borderline OTD. So many ignorant and cruel people attack their credibility because “he looks like a bum” or “she is such a slut.” They fail to realize that the abuse is precisely what drove these people to act, dress, and speak the way they do.

      Cynicism and bitterness toward religion is a common aftereffect for molestation victims, especially if the abuser was a rebbi, rav, or other religious figure. As a survival tactic, many of these victims understandably abandon religion entirely, since it represents all their pain and terror. How tragic that so many judge and condemn them for trying to cope with emotional agony in the best way they know how.

      • When I speak to victims struggling with their identity/belonging they often find it helpful to reject the simplistic (and loaded) dichotomy “on/off the derech”. Better to engage with categories such as: the abuser represents “derech znus” or “derech arayos”; the enablers represent “derech achzarius”; etc.

  33. I am so appalled by DT using the alleged psychotherapy as a means to discredit anyone. Of all people, well, he should lose his license, if he is licensed. But furthermore, not that there is any shame, busha, in someone seeking out professional help during stressful periods, NONE whatsoever for ANY reason, but the reasons someone might see a therapist run the gamut, from the loss of a spouse, to being in one’s house during a tornado and having a massive tree crash through, totally ripping off one third of the house. The latter is very very surreal. Several rooms wiped off the face of the earth, no roof, rain pouring in, tree totally filling up two complete rooms. Neither is there any disgrace if anxiety or depression were to motivate one to see a therapist. The causes are so very diverse. So, just the assumption that there is a stigma involved, afilu if depression from abuse is the driving force, is fallacious and outrageous and totally non-professional to posit. Not to mention the total lack of ethics and dirty play by daatlesstorahless
    . This daatlesstorahless excuse for a rabbi, excuse for a therapist is, IMHO a disgrace to both of his “professions”. Mental aberration or evil???? . Not sure which, perhaps both????. But people do not undergo 180 degree changes overnight without some very serious issue. Narcissism, egocentrism, even bipolar, by the themselves. IMHO, would not be sufficient to explain a major change in an individual, which i gather has occurred to RDE from many other posters.

  34. I have been gone for a while now.

    I just want to put it out there that I have NEVER been in therapy and certainly not one which Meisles ever paid for.

    Meisles is the one who orchestrated the attack against me. I know 100% that it was him using a fake user name.

    I’m not answering any questions this time though. Sorry. Just wanted to put this out there.

    Meisles has stooped low. Very low.

    • Glad you hear you are okay TruthSeeker. Please take care of yourself. And regarding Meisels having stooped low, well, it doesn’t get much lower than alleged “unwanted sexual contact” with Seminary girls in his charge. Trying to slander his accusers is not even a close second.

    • I am so sorry, TS. Know that there are plenty of people who care about you.

      I know that you said you won’t answer questions, so I’ll just leave it by saying that if there’s any way you can get information and proof out there, then it will silence the deniers. You see, the Meisels Weasels have been exploiting the CBD’s respect of the victims and have been saying that
      1) Meisels didn’t do anything more than a hug
      2) Because no teacher/principals have been named, then the whole notion of the teachers covering up things is all trumped up and false.

      If there’s anything that can be done to get more facts out in public, then it will go a long way, whether you do it, or whether others do it. Bottom line, it needs to happen.

      I wish you the best.

      • Thank u for all the wishes.

        In short- Meisles put out lies abt me and my family in order to discredit and make me look like an “unpopular weird kid with problems” (the complete opposite of what I am, it’s almost laughable).

        Without shying away from the truth, I cried a tremendous amount from the attacks and suffered greatly. He and Eidensohn are truly evil and need to ask me for major mechila before y”k.

        I am better and have only growth a thicker skin. I laugh at them now. I want to publicly thank all who supported me.

        That will be all from me. And I’m not giving up on making my accusations public, have no fear. Thank you all again very very much.

        • TS
        • @Truthseeker: Very glad to hear you are OK.

          There is only one word that should be mentioned when mentioning Elimelech Meisels and that is JAIL.
          He belongs in Jail. He should be arrested and prosecuted & sent away. He should not have the freedom to hunt down and harass his victims.

    • Be reassured that the very fact that they went to such a low level to attack you shows how effective your comments were. Job well done!!

See Commenting policy ( http://wp.me/pFbfD-Kk )

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s