Breaking- No Accreditation for Seminaries until Other Staff Testify, Some Staff are Fired, and Meisels Surrenders Control

Gedalia Dov Schwartz at Nefesh Chicago Sex Abuse Conference 2011

Gedalia Dov Schwartz at Nefesh Chicago Sex Abuse Conference 2011

The Chicago Special Beis Din (CBD rabbinical court) notified the Israeli Beis Din (IBD, this past Thursday (9/4/14), of their conditions for recommending the restoration of accreditation by Touro and HTC Colleges to the seminaries controlled by Meisels. The letter was signed by Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz (RGDS), Av Beis Din (head of the rabbinical court) on behalf of the whole CBD and addressed to the IBD’s attorney, Aaron Twersky (AT). The full text is below the article complete with Exhibit A, an article by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran, Av Beis Din of the IBD.

Conditions for Accreditation Recommendation
(Direct quotes unless labelled comment)
(Bolding was added by blogger, Yerachmiel Lopin)

Remedial measures … are necessary in our view to ensure a safe environment for students…

The Beis Din would like to hear additional testimony from certain staff members before finally determining the appropriate remedial measures.

Comment: A number of members of the seminary refused to testify to the CBD. I am guessing these are staff accused of enabling abuse. This demand is an obvious rejection of the IBD/3IRs claim that allegations of enabling were investigated and all existing staff were deemed to have a chezkas kashrus (presumption of being trustworthy). The CBD insists a proper investigation still needs to conducted with and about staff.

That determination can and will be made promptly following the completion of that testimony, and the Beis Din will withdraw its prior statements [here and here] as soon as those remedial measures [below] are satisfactorily implemented

Comment: The carrot is rapid reinstatement of accreditation.  The CBD makes a case that US accrediting colleges would otherwise be at risk of violating U. S.“Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972” because, as defined by that act there was “sexual violence” and some other employees were “aware of both specific Instances of misconduct and, more generally, gross violations of the norms of behavior in seminaries, and (ii) enabled this behavior by failing to take action to stop it”

Aside from Meisels, a very limited number of staff members may need to be removed from their positions in order to ensure a safe educational environment and restore a culture of compliance. Staff members who knew of Meisels’ misconduct, yet did nothing to stop it, violated their most fundamental responsibility-protecting the bnos yisroel entrusted to their care. Absent extraordinary circumstances, such persons must be removed from the seminaries, just as any reasonable person would insist upon removal of a mashgiach who knowingly permitted a cook to serve treif food to consumers.

Comment: Further below I will detail some of the CBD’s descriptions of staff who knew about Meisels’ misconduct and did nothing.

The Beis Din also anticipates the need for compliance training.

Comment: This compliance training for dealing with sex abuse and harassment (per US Title IX) could end up becoming a model for other seminaries. Since they all depend on US Government funding (e.g., Pell Grants) they all need to be in compliance or could lose their funding.

In addition, the Beis Din must be satisfied that Meisels has been removed from financial control of the seminaries. Meisels’ control of staff members’ livelihoods necessarily would have been a factor in their unwillingness to confront him. So long as he retains financial control, the same disincentives to reporting misconduct remain in place.

Comment: The CBD does not accept the blanket claim that Meisels no longer controls the seminaries and insists on being able to see the proof itself. I imagine they are demanding to know the names of the new officers of the not-for-profit (NFP) entity.

As you know, the Beis Din has requested and continues to await information from you in order to determine whether Meisels has been removed from financial control. In a July 30 conference call, Rabbis Tzvi Gartner and Chaim Malinowitz stated to the Beis Din that the publicly-reported purchase of the seminaries was subject to as-yet unfulfilled contingencies, including enrollment targets and financing.

Comment: The CBD is demanding proof of an irrevocable transfer.

Evidence of Abuse by Meisels
(direct quotes from RGDS letter)

Elimelech Meisels

Elimelech Meisels

Between mid-April and mid-May 2014, former students of seminaries associated with Elimelech Meisels separately approached members of the Special Beis Din. Each of them alleged, and subsequently testified before the Beis Din, that she had been the victim of inappropriate conduct, including unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature, by Meisels.

The Beis Din then summoned Meisels to appear, which he did. Meisels ultimately confessed before the Beis Din to the victims’ allegations of misconduct. He also confessed to having engaged in other misconduct, and prepared and delivered to the Beis Din a handwritten list of multiple additional victims.

Evidence of Staff Enabling Meisels
(direct quotes from RGDS letter)

The Beis Din also received evidence, including documentary proof and admissions, that some staff members (i) were aware of both specific instances of misconduct and, more generally, gross violations of the norms of behavior in seminaries, and (ii) enabled this behavior by failing to take action to stop it.’ The disturbing facts supported by this evidence include, but are not limited to, the following:

  1. Meisels repeatedly visited dormitories late at night, to the knowledge of certain staff.
  2. Meisels repeatedly took female students for car rides alone with him late at night, often to secluded destinations, to the knowledge of certain staff.
  3. A parent of a victim of unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature by Meisels reported the misconduct to a senior administrator, who summarily dismissed the report as false.
  4. Another staff member was aware of multiple instances of unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature by Meisels, but did not take action in response.
  5. Rabbi Meir Kahane, Principal Chedvas Bais Yaakov

    Rabbi Meir Kahane, Principal Chedvas Bais Yaakov

    A student reported misconduct to another senior administrator, who responded that the student should remain silent lest Meisels ruin her shidduch prospects.

  6. A senior administrator instructed others that it was forbidden to discuss Meisels’s misconduct or believe it to be true.
  7. A staff member who was aware of multiple instances of unwanted physical contact of a sexual nature by Meisels instructed the victim not to tell her parents.

COMMENT: numbering added by blogger. Items 5 was reported about Meir Kahane, principal of Chedvas by TruthSeeker. Item 6 was posted on Frum Follies as Kahane‘s Folly.

Beis Din Rules of Evidence

Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran

Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran

The letter has an attached Exhibit A, the teshuva (Jewish law responsum) about hearing sex abuse cases by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran (RMMS) who is the Av Beis Din (head) of the IBD. He published it in 2010. They make it clear their protocols and authority are in accordance with RMMS’s responsum. Thus they have authority for taking testimony in Meisel’s absence, requesting other staff to give testimony to the CBD, and attaching importance to their refusal to give testimony. (see points 4-6 in RMMS teshuva.)

Though the letter does not mention it, it is striking that the IBD insisted that it would not take testimony unless the defendant staff members were present as reported by Daniel Eidensohn on his Daas Torah blog posting of 8/25/14, Seminary Scandal: How to give information to the Israeli Beis Din. (Also on Internet Wayback Machine as of 9/9/14).

Other Points

According to footnote 1, “Rabbi Levin recused himself from this case due to a conflict of interest.” This is because Rabbi Levin’s was a chavrusah (study partner) for years with Michoel Elazar Meisels, the father of Elimelech Meisels. Given this conflict of interest (negius) it shocking that R. Levin would sign a letter against the CBD while Meisels still has a financial connection to the seminaries.

—————————————-

You can see other posts on Frum Follies about the Meisels seminaries scandal. They will appear in reverse chronological order (most recent first). You will get several pages of titles, so when you get to the bottom make sure to click on “<– older posts.” If your prefer reading in chronological order, keep going back and read from the bottom up.

Click on images to enlarge and sharpen

Schwartz letter to Aaron Twersky + IBD 9-4-2014 p1Schwartz letter to Aaron Twersky + IBD 9-4-2014 p2

Schwartz letter to Aaron Twersky + IBD 9-4-2014 p3Schwartz letter to Aaron Twersky + IBD 9-4-2014 p4

Exhibit A- Teshuva (Responsum) by Rabbi Shafran
(16 Adar, 5770; Spring 2010)

 

Shafran Yeshurun Psak 2Shafran Yeshurun Psak 1

Shafran Yeshurun Psak 4Shafran Yeshurun Psak 3

Shafran Yeshurun Psak 6Shafran Yeshurun Psak 5

Shafran Yeshurun Psak 7

 

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224 thoughts on “Breaking- No Accreditation for Seminaries until Other Staff Testify, Some Staff are Fired, and Meisels Surrenders Control

  1. @YL: This might be off-topic, but tell me if I’m correct: That according to the original CBD psak, Meisels was still to receive the monies for the seminaries, no? So then all this talk about Gottesman trying to take over EM’s seminaries is nothing short of the biggest red herring that I’ve ever seen?

  2. YL:
    Is there any meaningful way a person can show support to the CBD and their courageous stance?
    It must be lonely.

  3. “Opinion”

    Where are you now? Come out whoever you are…

    Would u like to see the list of victims Meisles has graciously given the CBD?

    Meisles defenders- open. Your. Eyes.

  4. TruthSeeker, u are a funny one! I never ever denied him doing anything. All I said was that if it wasnt you, then be quiet. But now I see that he confessed, and there are victims…

    • Everyone here with even a tiny bit of inside information knew each and every one of the points in the letter to be true.

      Yet, his defenders, yourself included, minimized or denied each one.

      I can’t wait to see how the Meisels sock-puppets and DT (basically the same thing anyway) will spin this.

      • I can tell you what the IBD will say. They will say that they believe that they now have jurisdiction, and that the CBD should give them the names of the staff members in question so that they can pursue the accusations. The CBD will refuse to do so, as they believe that they still have jurisdiction. It all comes down to the question (rehashed countless times) as to what status that “shtar borerus” has. The IBD thinks it is binding, the CBD does not.

        • The head of the IBD can also claim to be the King of Prussia. Big deal. They have no proof that a single victim ever authorized them to act on their behalf. They have leaked document more regularly than the plumbing in a run-down house. Yet they have never shown us a single piece of paper with signatures by victims or their agents authorizing the IBD to hear their cases against Meisels and other seminary staff.

          VERDICT: Fake Beis Din with no authority and jurisdiction. They are just 3 Israeli rabbis trying to save the jobs of people who don’t deserve their jobs.

        • Just Wondering – I was also Just Wondering if a Shtar Berurin is even necessary in such a case. Since you speak with authority please share with us your citations.

        • Who is the plaintiff in this shtar berurin. I see a signature by R. Aharon Feldman. But we can safely assume he was not a student there and is not claiming that Meisels molested him?

          BTW, don’t be too clever. Follow the lead of the “gedolim” who were learned enough not to foolishly claim the IBD was anything more than three Israeli rabbis.

        • As the responses to my previous comment dont have a reply button, I do so here. Yerachmiel: All readers of this blog know that you think the shtar berurin is meaningless and that the IBD has no standing. Unfortunately, your issuing of a “verdict” is not binding on anyone.
          Just trying to Understand: I am not “speaking with authority” and have no citations to share. I was merely responding to the question posed above as to what the IBD would respond to this letter, by writing what I think they would respond. This does not mean that I think that this response would be grounded in halakha, or that I think that it would not be.
          At the end of the day, the entire “jurisdiction” discussion is totally meaningless. Two rabbinic bodies, or whatever you want to call them, have issued opinions. If Touro and HTC want to listen to the CBD and not give accreditation yet, that is their right. If the schools don’t give refunds of deposits until instructed to do so by the IBD, as a nitva (defendant), that is their right. If the parents want to summon the schools to the CBD with regard to refunds, they can do so, and that will set in motion standard Hoshen Mishpat proceedings, probably ending in a “zabla” case. As far as parents sending to the schools, each family will decide (or has already decided) who they feel is more credible, and will act (or has acted) accordingly.

        • Yerachmiel: Two things: You are right about the civil suit, they can choose that route (though most seem to have not done so). Re. the “false equivalence”: My whole point is that it does not matter what I, or for that matter, you, or for that matter Eidensohn, thinks about the relative credentials/standing of either the CBD or the IBD. The people who have to make practical decisions based on their understanding of the situation will choose who they will listen to. If Eidensohn yells that the CBD ceded jurisdiction, it matters not one whit to Touro or HTC, and they will reinstate accreditation when they are comfortable with the safety of the schools; and if you yell that the IBD is really 3IR, it does not matter to anyone who chooses to listen to them that the schools are safe.

            1. You are right that practically speaking the public will vote with their decisions. However, those making halachic-legal arguments do care.

            2. This year’s votes are in. Attendance is down about 20% at the Meisels seminaries. So clearly there are something like 60 families that either did not send their daughters to seminary this year or found a slot in another seminary. Obviously there were others who sent their daughters, but that is not because they bought the IBD/3IRs/Eidensohn argument. It is because they were not optimistic about getting their money back OR because they could not find another seminary slot and they felt it essential that their daughters go to some seminary.

            3. Recruitment is already underway for 2015-2016 seminary year. Parents will now vote free of economic coercion. The seminaries controlled by Meisels will fail to recruit enough students unless they can resolve their accreditation problems which probably means firing Kahane and Hindy Ullman and meeting other demands of the Chicago Special Beis Din.

    • The CBD said many moons ago that he confessed. But the conspiracy theorists wanted everyone to believe the only thing he confessed to was inappropriate hugging. So now you say “oh I see he confessed”. That is NOT a chachma. That was known and ignored, swept under the rug, trivialized etc .. etc .. by all those abuser apologists.

        • Oh please … a) the wording over what he was investigated for was always in writing and was very clear that it was UNWANTED and of a SEXUAL NATURE. B) Anyone could have called the CBD, even yourself and you would have had the same exact information revealed to you from the mouths of the people who just put it in MORE writing.
          You can spin this all you want, but like many of Eidensohn’s friends .. you and they do not care to know the truth, they only care to revictimize young girls and stand up for the “dog”.

          • I think you are misunderstanding Triangle. He is merely saying the letter adds a whole new level of detail and confirmation. I felt the same way and learned a few new things, though I have long believed the core allegations, even before I knew the CBD was taking on this case.

        • Why is there no reply prompt under Lopin’s response to me.
          I see some confusion. My first comment was in response to “opinion” and then I must have missed the fact that it was triangle who responded to me, and I responded as if it was “opinion” trying to justify his original comment. Sorry.

  5. How the heck did they get him to provide a list of additional victims? I mean it’s great that he did this, but it begs the question why would he ever consider doing this?

    • A better question is why would be confess all together?

      The answer: he was cornered. They had clear cut proof. There was no hiding or running away.

      Plus, they prob threatened him in some way (not physically). These Rabbanim are very smart. They know how to handle these situations very well.

  6. the staff that covered up for him and enabled his behavior should be fired ASAP and publicly names so they get future jobs far, far away from bnos Yisroel.

  7. Thanks for the update. This shows that they acted with the utmost integrity in dealing with this case. The question which I have, why would any beis din, or anybody involve fight them at all. Without pointing any fingers, it seems that the CBD tried their best to do things quietly and to save these seminaries without giving them a bad name, yet others did their best to call names, accusations, blood libels, etc to this beis din, for absolutely no reason. What did they ( especially eidensohn and his brother) have to gain?

  8. As a victim of a different rabbi, I feel tremendous gratitude and admiration toward the CBD for the courageous, selfless, relentless, and thorough way they are handling this whole affair.

    The tide is definitely turning against these sick rabbi predators.

    • Yael,
      You were not a victim of a rabbi.
      You were a victim of a predatory animal disguised as a rabbi.
      At the very least, we should put quotes around the term RABBI when used as a title for any two-legged predator.

      • So many of my seminary classmates still call him rabbi and refuse to get rid of his title.

        They are disgusted that I refuse to call him that. And I’m disgusted by them for just the opposite.

  9. How sad that the IBD and the seminary enablers aren’t hiding their faces in shame. Something that a young and brave 18 year old Truth Seeker saw so clearly they still can’t see on Monday morning.
    The shvotim were so angered by what Shechem did to Dina because “it also isn’t done” the whole world sees it as a wrong. Maybe when I was a young and naive bochur I could have accepted this story of ‘meisel’s seminary of latter day saint’s’ as just an ordinary sin. But today that I have daughters of my own…… I don’t understand how there can still exist any sort of minimizing attitudes. How can the IBD and company continue to view this as an ordinary infraction as if he carried on some suspect behavior with an acquaintance his age. Why aren’t they “truly saddened and very angry” because this sort of thing “isn’t done” Thank the One Above there are “Anashim” like CBD, TS, and YL.
    Maybe the remediation can include TS going back to those seminaries and teaching Jewish values that will include the sanctity of life over the technicalities of due process in court and other important Jewish concepts. And they would have to pay her for her time of course, ah the irony. …

  10. Does everybody realize the larger ramifications of this psak?

    According to this ruling (unless sexual assaulting boys is allowed), Rabbi Margolis should be forced to sell Torah Temima and all the staff that knew about Kolko fired, the Neubergers should be forced to sell Ner Yisroel and all the staff that knew about Eisemann for years fired, the Kotlers should be forced to sell BMG and all the rabbis that knew about the younger Kolko fired, etc. etc. etc.

    And they should all lose their Title IX accreditation. All it takes is for somebody of gravitas to inform the DOE that AARTS (the Association for the Accreditation of Rabbinical Schools) has been making a mockery of the TITLE IX rules, and that all the Yeshivas should lose all of their funding from the Federal Government.

    And the same thing goes for Yeshiva University, where REGARDLESS OF STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS RUNNING OUT FOR LAWSUITS, the fact that the University continues to employ many staff members who are known to have covered up for Finkelstien and Gordon, should disqualify them from federal funding of any kind.

    At Penn State, four top officials are being prosecuted criminally for covering up for Sandusky. The. most prestigious universities in the country including Yale are now being investigated for their covering up of rape on campus.

    The fact that in this day and age, Torah institutions are hiding behind the constitution’s guarantee of religious freedom to enable, cover up and protect sexual predators, is a Chillul Hashem of historical proportions.

    How can we as Jews Erev Rosh Hashanna, stand silently by the blood of our brothers and sisters?
    When will we demand accountability and integrity and human decency from our schools? When will we begin to protect our children instead of our perverted predator Rabbis and the Roshei Yeshiva who empower them?

    • Justice Brandeis @12:59AM,
      You make a brilliant comment of legal and historical significance re the “extended ramifications of this psak” regarding Title IX accreditation. You suggest that Torah Temima, Ner Israel, BMG, all be sold and enabling staff fired, and lose Title IX federal funding, and Yeshiva U. (still employing enabling staff remaining from the decades of abuse) also lose federal funding. Halevai Halevai, what an optimistic fantasy of justice being meted out. So “pleasant” (na’im) to contemplate. halevai.

        • http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/how-to-pursue-a-title-ix-lawsuit/
          How to Pursue a Title IX Lawsuit
          Filing a Title IX Lawsuit
          Under Title IX, a sexual harassment victim can file a private lawsuit at a federal court if his or her college is not complying with its Title IX obligations. You can file a Title IX lawsuit without filing a prior complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR). You can also file a lawsuit after filing a complaint with the OCR; the outcome of the complaint does not affect your ability to file a Title IX lawsuit.
          Who can file a Title IX lawsuit?
          Individuals are allowed to file a Title IX complaint with the OCR on behalf of sexual harassment victims. This, however, does not apply to Title IX lawsuits. Only a victim of sexual harassment, or the parents of the victim if s/he is below the age of 18, can file a lawsuit.
          How do you file a Title IX lawsuit?
          To a file a lawsuit, you must do so through an attorney or, for those who do not have an attorney, through a federal court’s pro se clerk’s office.
          For legal assistance, you can contact one of the following organizations which have experience with Title IX litigation:
          • Legal Momentum works to expand legal rights and services for victims of gender-based violence. You can contact Legal Momentum’s helpline at titleix[AT]legalmomentum[DOT]org or (212) 925-6635, ext. 650.
          • Public Justice is a national public interest law firm that uses precedent-setting litigation to fight injustice and right wrongs. It has worked on numerous sexual assault-related Title IX cases for decades, and also handles cases involving bullying and harassment, including gender-based harassment. You can contact the organization for legal assistance by phone at (202) 797-8600 or by email at caseintake[at]publicjustice[dot]net.
          • The Victims Rights Law Center practices in Massachusetts and Oregon but can provide technical assistance and referrals elsewhere. You can contact the VRLC by phone at 617-399-6720 x19 or at their web address here.
          • The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) does legal advocacy work in Title IX cases. Each state has a local affiliate. You can find your local affiliate to obtain legal assistance here.
          • Legal Voice is a women’s rights advocacy organization that provides legal assistance for Title IX. The organization can also be contacted for legal information about Title IX and filing a lawsuit.
          There are also organizations that can provide you a referral for an attorney specializing in Title IX cases:
          • The American Bar association has a referral service in each state, specified by county (http://apps.americanbar.org/legalservices/lris/directory/)
          • School Violence Law has worked on a number of Title IX cases and provides free consultations, including attorney referrals. You can contact the firm at (877) 927-4321.
          Useful Information for Your Attorney
          Before meeting with an attorney, make sure you have information about your college’s Title IX violations. This can include a list of examples of noncompliance. Also, thorough documentation is critical for a lawsuit. Make sure you have copies and records of interviews, meetings, letters, and any complaints that have been filed with the OCR (if you have filed a complaint) and/or with your college. If you have been in communication with any administrators at your college, make sure you document any communications (phone calls, letters, emails, and texts). For example, following a meeting with a college administrator, it can be helpful to send an email memorializing the content of your conversation.
          Is there a time limit for filing a Title IX lawsuit?
          Yes, all federal courts have a time limit for when you can file a Title IX lawsuit. The time limit depends on the state in which your college is located and what the state has determined to be the “statute of limitations” for Title IX cases: this ranges from about one year to six years.
          What are the available remedies for a Title IX lawsuit?
          If the court decides a college has violated Title IX, the most common remedies available are injunctive relief, monetary compensation and attorney’s fees. When the court grants injunctive relief, the college is commanded to perform or prevent an action — this relief aims to rectify the problematic conduct that led to the Title IX violations. If you are the victim of sexual harassment, you do not have to prove that your college had actual knowledge of the harassment to be awarded injunctive relief. Even if you have already graduated from college by the time the court decides to grant injunctive relief, it can still be ordered as long as there is a group of students that would still be positively affected by the injunctive relief. A court may consider not issuing injunctive relief if the school proves that there is no reasonable expectation that the violation will occur again.
          If you are a victim of sexual harassment, you can also receive money damages (compensation) if you can prove that your college intentionally did not comply with its Title IX obligations. This means that you must show that your college knew of the harassment and was deliberately indifferent to it.
          Further, if your Title IX lawsuit is successful, the court can order compensation for your attorney’s fees (the charges for legal services).
          Sometimes, the court will order a college produce a compliance plan that will outline the steps it must take to rectify the Title IX violations. The court then monitors the school to make sure it undertakes these steps.

        • PLEASE NOTE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FILING A COMPLAINT AND FILING A LAWSUIT:Individuals are allowed to file a Title IX complaint with the OCR on behalf of sexual harassment victims. This, however, does not apply to Title IX lawsuits. Only a victim of sexual harassment, or the parents of the victim if s/he is below the age of 18, can file a lawsuit.

    • There has NEVER been any evidence against R. Eiseman. Even the editor of the Jewish Times admits that. Kolko is another story.

      • According to insiders, Eisemann confessed to Rabbi Hopfer, after the Yeshiva asked him t do an “independent investigation.” This has been written about on the internet and never denied by any of the parties.

        Read Phil’s article again. Eisemann was quoted by the BJT as denying he was “retiring”, but whn Phil called the Yeshiva, the next day (as is written in Phil’s article) Eisemann was forced to call back and admit he had lied, and has retired from teaching. Rabbi Blau is quoted in the article as having spoken to victims. Phil, after speaking to both the victims and the rabbis, calls Eisemann a molester in his documenary film “Standing Silent.”
        Come on, now. If Eisemann was innocent, do you think the Yeshiva would not defend him and would say “we cannot comment”???

        If you call the hanhalla of the yeshiva and ask it is safe for boys to be alone with Eisemann and they say yes, please let us know. There are Eisemann victims who may be within the statute of limitations, who have not pressed charges because they settled for the Yeshiva’s promise of “retiring him” and “monitoring him.”

        The fact that the Yeshiva alllows Eisemann to cotinue to live on campus, although he has admitted to molesting boys for decades, and that they refuse to warn the students or the parents, is simply because they are like all Seminary owners and Yeshiva owners – so called “Rosh Yeshivas”, who care more about their image of Daas Torah infalibility than they care about their talmidim, er, I mean gullible customers.

        By not reporting Eisemann to the police, the Yeshiva has been breaking Title lX regulations for years. (Not to mention the failure to report in a state where clergy are mandated reporters, and the obstruction of justice of intimidating victims.)

        • In Maryland, EVERYONE is a mandated reporter.

          Maryland

          Professionals Required to Report – Fam. Law § 5-704
          Persons required to report include:
          • Health practitioners
          • Educators or human service workers
          • Police officers

          Reporting by Other Persons – Fam. Law § 5-705
          Any other person who has reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect must report.
          An individual may notify the local department or the appropriate law enforcement agency if the individual has reason to believe that a parent, guardian, or caregiver of a child allows the child to reside with or be in the regular presence of an individual, other than the child’s parent or guardian, who is registered as a child sex offender and, based on additional information, poses a substantial risk of sexual abuse to the child.

          Institutional Responsibility to Report – Fam. Law § 5-704
          A mandated reporter who is acting as a staff member of a hospital, public health agency, child care institution, juvenile detention center, school, or similar institution immediately shall notify and give all information required by this section to the head of the institution or the designee of the head.

          Standards for Making a Report – Fam. Law §§ 5-704; 5-705
          A mandatory reporter is required to report when, acting in a professional capacity, the person has reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect. Other persons shall report when they have reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect.

          Privileged Communications – Fam. Law §§ 5-704; 5-705
          Mandatory reporters are required to report regardless of any other provision of law, including any law on privileged communications.
          Only attorney-client and clergy-penitent privileges are permitted.

          Inclusion of Reporter’s Name in Report
          The reporter is not specifically required by statute to provide his or her name in the report.

          Disclosure of Reporter Identity
          This issue is not addressed in the statutes reviewed.

          Source – Child Welfare Information Gateway. (2014). Mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Children’s Bureau.
          https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm

    • The Israel BD has it. Unlike Chicago, they have been leaking private communications. I assume they have not leaked Gottesman’s letter because they know it will make them look bad.If it is anything like this letter it could be dynamite.

    • The CBD has been very disciplined and has never leaked private documents. Even the leak of the list of CBD condition on Meisels (dated mid-June) was leaked by the IBD to Daniel Eidensohn’s Daas Torah blog.

      • I believe that this is one reason, among others, that the CBD hasn’t shared their information with the IBD. Lack of trust.

  11. As Adkan has poited out, why have neither the CBD, nor the IBD called law enorcement and requested a criminal investigation into rape and sexual assault? Why only “allow” the girls to go to the cops? Why not encourage them, support them, protect them from the fall out? Why wimp out and foist the responsibility of reporting to the authorities, which is obviously difficult to do for anyone in the frum community, on the young women who have already suffered? As I asked a Rov from Queens who recently gave a heter to two young girls to report their abuse to the authorities, “Didnt Rav Elyashiv include all Jews in the mitzva of reporting suspicions of dangerous criminal sex abse to the authorities? Aren’t rabbis Jews too?

    From a practical perspective, we all know that we have not heard the end of Meisels. After some time, he will certainly rehabilitate himself and be back in action. Even as we speak, there is nothing stoppin him from using his rabbinic title and charsma to find young girls in Israel and counsel them, the way Efraim Bryks still does, the way that Dovd Weinberger does through his website, the way that Matis Weinberg did and does, the way that Motty Elon is doing, etc.

    The argument that the girls are too scared or embarassed to press criminial charges, is a cop out. If the communal rabbis publicly supported them, went with them to the police, praised them as the heroes they are, and encouraged the best boys to marry them, there is a decent chance they would have the strength to put this guy away.

    While lauding the CBD for groundbreaking courage and yashrus, can we cal on them to realy see this through and not only “contain” the enemy, but “destroy it?”

    • I know that girls have been encouraged/supported to go to the police by the CBD, the issue is that the girls are afraid.

      • And Magen in Israel will provide free professional legal help as needed to anyone wanting to pursue a prosecution or wanting to help Magen get a better understanding of the problem in Pninim and other Israeli seminaries.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised. He already wrote a post it’s time to move over,,the end. Clearly he has much more important things to write about, like helping and convincing a husband not to go to beis din, and not to give a get . He wrote a new post why people have to ask mechila from a guy holding back a get , that’s where his priorities is, and of course nobody answered. It was clear from day one, that he was not willing to hear the truth and had to come up,with all,different conspiring theories and all arguments came down, you are to,stupid ,find another blog.
      So ,don’t hold your breath on him asking for mechila.

    • the self-appointed “daas torah” never acknowledged that the second year of pnimim was closed. And, of course, even though rosh hashana is imminent, he never apologized to truth seeker.

        • Another version of [“Garnel Ironheart’s”(?)] “Daas Torah means never having to say you’re sorry,” i.e., “Calling yourself ‘Daas Torah’ means never having to say you’re sorry.”

      • Not just Eidensohn, but all the girls who have sent me hate emails, and a mother who harassed me viciously on DT blog.

        But there are so many apologies needed for so so many-
        #1 meisels to victims
        #2- staff (not just kahane) to victims
        #3- the SEMINARY GIRLS who harassed the victims for speaking out (truly awful)

        I know I’ve forgotten many more. But these are crucial. I doubt they will ever have the integrity to apologize. All these people. So sad..

  12. I still find it strange that the new owner, Yarmush, has not written a letter to the public detailing the changes to be made and apologizing for the past. I find it even stranger that anyone could his daughter to Kahane’s school. If there is one person [other than Meisels] who sounds bad, he is the one. He is an enabler. He invokes malachim and shamayim to quiet the girls. This is chinuch? What a rachmanus. I don’t know if the other schools are better. He has dug his own grave with his stupid letters.

    I commend all the young women who had the fortitude to speak to the CBD. I encourage others to do so too. even if you’re married, I’m sure you can contact a dayan by phone and see if it’s important to speak up while maintaing your privacy and dignity.

    • Yarmush didn’t exactly work out since the audience for this “purchase” was the CBD and they weren’t buying the nonsense.

      • As Rabbi Schwartz’s letter makes clear, the sale was full on conditions and stipulations. CBD was never given an update regarding their conditions. Therefore, they could not (and cannot, to this day) make a determination as to the end of Meisels’ involvement.

        For example, if the conditions are not met, then the sems go back to Meisels. That being the case, there is no proof that Meisels is out for good.

        I am not aware that there was a problem, per se with Yarmush, but rather with the conditions of the sale.

        • After the latest CBD letter it is pretty clear that the sale never was finalized . Why else wouldn’t they furnish proof of sale to the CBD. Notice, that after the initial mention of yarmush his name hasn’t been mentioned again. Apparently being an astute businessman he never finalized the deal. This really compromises the IBD position. Do the 5R’s know this or….

    • Re: Who would go to Rabbi Kahane’s seminary

      Unfortunately, his lines about not speaking up for fear of the angels hearing and thus being empowered to speak badly and ruin lives is not uncommon among “inspirational” speakers. Nor is the thought that by wearing more haredi styles one (man or woman) can have a part in saving the world. There are lots of rabeim giving that kind of pop kabalah mussar across a range of yesivahs and seminaries.

    • Lot’s of people are completely clueless about what went on in these seminaries, at most they heard rumors that seriously lowball the extent of the abuse that went on. They don’t read blogs, they don’t read newspapers, all they ever read is Mishpacha and Ami and the like. I had to personally inform my friends and coworkers about the facts and warn them to tell their friends and family not to send to these seminaries. And I’m not sure they really believed me…..

      • Most frum people are extremely busy and don’t have the time to spend reading blogs. And a lot of frum people only have time to do extensive reading on Shabbos, and blogs do not come nicely bound in magazine or paper form for Shabbos afternoon reading.

        A lot of frum people are also very happy to keep their heads buried in the sand. If they don’t know about the problems, they are happier. They are all too willing to believe that everything in the Torah velt is fine and that we are always better than the goyim. They are not interested in nasty little facts that upset their worldview. They enjoy believing that they will get schar for their “emunas chachamim” and they want to trust that “Daas Torah” will inform them about anything important that they need to know.

      • If a teacher dissents from the decision of the highest court, he may state his dissent and teach accordingly; but he is not allowed to oppose the authority of the court in practise, in which case he falls under the category of a “zaḳen mamre” (a rebellious elder) (Deut. xvii. 12; ‘Eduyyot v. 6; B. M. 59b; Yer. ‘Ab. Zarah ii. 42d; Ber. 63a).

        A Zaken Mamre, would in extreme cases be liable for the death penalty during the temple era. For some talmudic details see Adin Steinsaltz on the talmud’s tractate Sanhedrin (BT, 88a-b). http://steinsaltz.org/learning.php?pg=Daf_Yomi&articleId=1947

        • Thanks! I should have remembered. As my friends like to joke – bais yaakov tuition refund for my parents!

    • So, you’re reversing your position? What about the people who provided cover for this pig? Aren’t they guilty, too?

    • Opinion, you most certainly do not seem to have “an opinion” like ur name states.

      Stop going back and forth. Ur an enabler who uses foul speech and language.

  13. Has anything been written about Mrs. Meisles? When did she know about her husband’s acknowledged I appropriate behavior? Is she an enabler? Is she standing by her man no matter how wrong his behavior? Did she absolve him of his indiscretions after he “confessed” to the CBD?

    • These are questions I wonder myself.

      But please…let’s have the human decency to leave mrs.Meisels out of discussion…she is in a very diff category than staff and teachers. She is his wife.

      I think everyone should try to leave her out pls..

      • Congratulations, TruthSeeker, you have just graduated from “anonymous blogger” to “human being”. Your heart is in the right place, your priorities are in line with a maturity well beyond your years, and you have just become so much more credible and believable with this comment.

        • TS has always been circumspect, appropriate and refined. These are awful charges and she is brave and responsible. To the extent that her speaking out resulted in some parents keeping their daughters home (and the Ka-ching! factor decreasing) kol hakavod!

    • The frum community needs to learn to stop administering “guilt by association” to the immediate family members of sexual abusers. Wives, children and parents of abusers need our compassion and support, not our fingers pointed at them with accusations, ostracizing and shame.

  14. Well said Justice Brandeis – Piracy was destroyed only when world governments took the matter in hand and went after the pirates with full force and the hunters became the hunted. I believe that if the schools, Rabbis and communities were threatened with the full force of the law they would have no choice but to comply and establish the right protections and protocols to protect our children.
    No-one would risk not complying or enabling. It just wont be worth it anymore!

  15. What are all the pninim girls going to say now?
    All of the students who were trying to protect him?
    All of the girls who were bullying each other?
    Girls accusing students of being victims of meisels or making up lies?
    Girls sending nasty text messages and emails trying to identify victims and attack them.

    Teachers who threatened students not to speak up.
    Teachers who called girls liars?
    Teachers who cared more about their parnasah then the kedushah of Jewish Girls.

    Shame on YOU.

    Guess what? Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur are coming up.
    All the loshon hora and slander that was spoken about the victims is beyond disgusting. All the threats and comments posted saying it was made up etc, and attacking the victims is beyond terrible.

    The pninim girls, teachers and other people who protected the PIG MEISELS and attacked the victims who were brave enough to come forward and save your future sisters, daughters and granddaughters need to be applauded, but most importantly asked for mechilla for the loshan hora and shame that was caused upon them. WAKE UP.

    You know who you are. Start apologizing.

    Rosh Hashonah is coming.
    and guess what?
    This is between you and g-d.

    • Unfortunately, those who refused to speak l”h about Meisles and who “turned super frum and machmir” overnight are living a lie. They cry loshon hara and yet speak an enormous amount of l”h about the ppl speaking out against Meisles and the staff (I’ve gotten it a lot. And a lot of “u will burn in hell”s).

      I doubt these “very frum” individuals will have the integrity to apologize to anyone they victimized.

  16. Here are some questions which I think need to be asked (and answered by the appropriate people) now that the Chicago Special Bais Din (SBD) has released specific information regarding the issues at Pninim, Binas Bais Yaakov, Chedvas Bais Yaakov, and Keser Chaya.

    1. A few weeks ago, five American based Roshei Yeshiva signed a letter which said in effect that there is new leadership and everything is good. Will the Roshei Yeshiva now withdraw that letter in the light of the evidence presented in the letter signed by HaRav Schwartz, shlita, on behalf of the SBD?

    1. Before releasing their letter to the public, did the five Roshei Yeshiva speak to any of the staff at the seminaries? Did they speak to any of the students? Did they discuss the available evidence with members of the SBD? In the interest of making sure the public is safe then it would be best if the five Roshei Yeshiva would share with the SBD which staff members they spoke with and compare notes with the SBD if these are the same people the CBD would like to question?
    2. Can it be confirmed that all five Roshei Yeshiva were fully briefed on the issues and were afforded an opportunity to verify issues for themselves before being asked to sign this letter? Did they have an opportunity to read the final text of the letter before it was released to the public?

    The intention of these questions is to resolve misunderstandings through revealing the truth. It is desirable for leaders of Klal Yisroel to arrive at a common agreement as to what steps need to be taken and standards implemented in order for us all to move forward. But it’s first important to make sure everyone is working with the same set of facts.

    • Naive questions. Like everything else signed by roshei yeshivas, they had no facts, just the word of an askan

      • “Like everything else signed by roshei yeshivas, they had no facts, just the word of an askan”

        Which illustrates one of the current problems in the frum community.

      • Special Beis Din. In Chicago it was named the Special Beis Din as distinct from the others that deal with all other issues apart from sex abuse. However, it has come to be known during this debate as the Chicago Beis Din (CBD).

      • From page 1 of the September 4 letter signed by Rabbi Schwartz on behalf of the Special Bais Din to the attorney for the seminaries:

        The Special Beis Din of Chicago was founded fourteen years ago for the exclusive purpose of hearing cases of alleged molestation and sexual predation. Since then, the Beis Din has handled upward of 25 such cases. It is composed of four experienced poskim who represent a range of perspectives in the Orthodox community, and collectively have well over a century of experience as rabbonim and dayamin: Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz, Av Beth Din of the Beth Din of America and Rosh Beth Din of the Chicago Rabbinical Council Beth Din; Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst, Dayan of Agudath Israel of Illinois; Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Levin, Rosh Yeshiva of Telz Chicago [note 1]; and Rabbi Zev Cohen, Rav of Congregation Adas Yeshurun. To our knowledge, the Special Beis Din is the only Beis Din in the United States exclusively devoted to such matters. [note 2]

        Note 1 – Rabbi Levin recused himself from this case due to a conflict of interest.

        Note 2 – For background on the relevance of this fact, see point 5 of the teshuva of
        Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran attached as Exhibit A.

        The full text of both the letter by Rabbi Schwartz and the teshuva of Rabbi Shafran can be found at the end of Yerachmiel’s explanation, above the comments.

  17. Perhaps the biggest danger to the survival of orthodox Jewry — in addition to the willful ignorance which is inculcated in our youth (many of whom remain hopelessly ignorant and close-minded individuals)– is the loshon hora campaign, accompanied by videos on Tisha b’Av, etc (which used to be a day for reflection and mourning, not for video entertainment).

    These programs have led many people, including the ‘rabbi; of one of the 4 seminaries, to totally misunderstand and / or misrepresent the halachos of loshon hora, motzee shem ra, and rechilus.

    Loshon hora is similar to pikuach nefesh cases. There is very little room for “optional.” There are cases wherein saying certain things are forbidden, and there are cases wherein passing on negative information is obligatory to save or potentially save a fellow Yid from harm.

    “Loshon hora” must be communicated in many cases, lest we violate “lo saamod” (standing by when a fellow Yid’s “blood” may be spilled). Even reasonable suspicions may often require action. That is the halacha.

    Rumors which persist must be attended to, when it comes to matters such as the purity of our youth. That is the halacha.

    Safety of children comes first. That is the halacha.

    Removal of enablers (mesayah l’dvar aveira) is mandatory. That is the halacha.

      • I’m not here to name names. My point is that we are allowing Yiddishkeit to be destroyed by permitting ignoramuses, idiots, neurotics, and other assorted fruits and nuts to take away one of our most prized accomplishments and necessary skill through the centuries — our thirst for knowledge — in favor of a black-n-white world wherein the phrase “don’t confuse me with the facts” is viewed as one of the Aseres Ha’dibros.

        No Rav can reasonably pasken in a medical halacha shailah without a presentation of medical knowledge and indisputable facts. Ditto for shailahs involve huge financial problems– one may need to know how money is transferred electronically, what are the legal ramifications of various proposals, what is a Ponzi scheme, what is a true sale of a seminary and what’s is a sham sale, what is affinity marketing etc.

        No Rav can reasonably pasken on matters involving sexual molestation without learning about the M.O. of a predator, what is grooming, how sociopaths learn to manipulate others to satiate their conscience – free desires– considering the rest of us to be mere pawns, prey, or hindrances to his/ her goals etc.

        This is rabanus 101. Caveat emptor! We cannot let ourselves or our rabbanim continue to be fooled,

        • Professional: I couldn’t agree more with everything you wrote. At risk of being labeled a heretic, I wish people would realize that roshei yeshiva might be good at giving shiur or running yeshivas, but they are not experts on everything else in the world.

    • 5t – great post! I love what you said especially about lashon hora and the chofetz Chaim videos and tisha bav should be a day for mourning. Not videos!!! Fantastic points!!

    • Well said, especially the point about the destruction of Tisha B’Av. Just remember next year to have a “meaningful fast”…

      However, I would venture to conjecture that Kahane’s (oops, I mentioned his name!) motivation was not necessarily his ignorance of Hilchos Lashan Hara, but more likely his desire to keep his job…

  18. Kahane once yelled at my friend who had pink sparkly nail polish on in seminary. She got in major trouble and cried.

    Funny how he makes such a stink over nail polish but not when Meisles is smoking up the windows of his van alone with girls (sorry for the inappropriate wording..I just think it’s time to be blunt and not shy away with words any longer..).

    • Yep!! That’s 100% manipulation and hypocracy of the meisels seminary industry. (But of course some non meisels sems are good places – I don’t want to over generalize but There is lots of hypocracy and maybe I’m more aware and able to see it because I’m not a product of the System – I’m a BT. Does anyone really think Hashem cares if a girl wears sparkly Nail polish??? Please educate me- I’m just a BT no longer in awe of the bais yakkov ladies that made me feel I
      Was so fortunate they let my daughter into their BY sem only to be exposed to the most disgusting behavior by a “rabbi”

      • BTs and their families need to watch their backs. My parents are BTs, and when I was a kid they told me that all frum Jews are good. My siblings and I were made to feel like second class citizens, and the Kiruv people took my naive parents’ money, which they could ill afford to give, and lied to them about where it was being spent. Nobody knows exactly what H-shem really cares about, but, to me, it’s a safe bet that upright, honest behavior and the protection of the vulnerable from predators trumps the avoidance of wearing sparkly nail polish.

        • BauMayim – I’m truly sorry for how you and your parents were treated. You and they deserved better from anyone – religious or secular – and certainly you deserved better from a group who claims to be “Am HaNivchar.”

          I’m an FFB from an old European FFB family. The first time I heard Kiruv referred to as “Missionizing” I cringed. Missionizing in my mind was associated with predatory, dishonest, brainwashed Christians who try to influence unsuspecting people with their misguided beliefs. I have come to see Kiruv as indeed “Missionizing” – with all it’s negative traits – dishonesty, and influencing unsuspecting people with their our set of beliefs. The only difference is in what beliefs are being pedaled. There is a lot of outright lying, lying by omission, and misrepresentations that go on in Kiruv. I have heard from a number of BT friends over the years how later on, years after they and their families became frum, they felt intentionally duped and tricked and lied to by the Kiruv movement, of which we (the frum community) are always so proud and think is so essential. We, the frum world, tell ourselves that it’s okay to not tell BT’s everything, because otherwise it would scare them away, and the most important thing is to save their neshama by “making them frum” so that the mitzvos can save their souls with the truth of Torah, and that this is what Hashem wants. But it’s not okay. When you grow up and open your eyes, you see how families are deeply and terribly hurt by these seemingly small omissions of information, and that these things DO matter, and that WE are the ones who are misguided when we think that the ends justify the means and that the most important thing, and what Hashem wants, is a quantity of more frum people, regardless of the means. I don’t believe that anymore. I believe that Hashem wants those of us who ARE frum to be examples of righteousness. And to be upright people, we cannot tell non-Jews who try to be a Jew all the negative things about his becoming a Ger, while telling unobservant Jews the opposite, and hiding things from potential BT’s, not giving them a full picture of what they are in for, and misrepresenting the product we are selling. Promising them the sky when we KNOW that BT’s and their children will always be considered “other” and that we have values of “b’nei niddah” that dissuade our children from marrying theirs. Doing that is WRONG. It is dishonest. It hurts people in this world. And hurting people in this world does not justify supposedly gaining them some brownie points in Shomayim. Especially when so many of us have a good idea, once we grow up, that Hashem wants us to put Bein Adam L’Chaveiro FIRST AND FOREMOST, and BEFORE the mitzvos of Bein Adam L’Makom. Perhaps BT’s should be the ones doing Kiruv – teaching US how to work on Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. They may not have the details of Shabbos and Kashrus, but they sure have ethics and morals more down pat than we do! Look at every scandal in the frum world and how it is covered up. Torah? You want to teach THEM Torah? How about THEM teaching US Torah? Don’t lie. Don’t cheat. Don’t steal. Don’t misrepresent the truth. Don’t lie by omission. Treat victims better than their abusers. THEY have the Alef Bais of what Hillel said is first and foremost in Torah – not to do to others what we wouldn’t want done to ourselves. We? We have lots of OCD rules which have us jumping through hoops 24/7 getting lots of things “done,” while walking over the emotional corpses of the spirits we destroy and those we hurt with our zeal to “Keep” Torah and Mitzvos. I think secular Jews should think about starting a Kiruv Movement. Call it “Torah True Judaism.” Oh, wait, that’s the Agudah’s term. Nevermind. Call it “Torah 101” or “Torah Kindergarten” – a prerequisite for advanced claims of living a Torah Life.

        • Hi, Seriously? I’m replying to my own comment because there was no reply button after yours. Your words have me in tears, they are my exact thoughts except I couldn’t have expressed them as well as you did- possibly as a result of my substandard charedi education. I try so hard to teach this message to my children…..sometimes I think they’re listening and other times my words seem to be falling on deaf ears. All my daughter sees is that I’m not frum enough, I like to watch DVDs and go to movies. She sees that I don’t really want her to marry a man that is not at least making an attempt at gainful employment. And it’s not good enough for her that I’ve capitulated on this point, because I don’t want her to become an older single, and not because I believe in the learning lifestyle. I guess here’s where the faith part comes in….I’ve done my best and now I must hope that my children’s choices won’t ruin their lives later.

        • I live in a community that is majority Ba’alei Teshuva and Geirim. Therefore, a lot of the people I associate with are not FFB. They have been BT or converts for decades. They are happy and they love being frum.

          I am FFB, and while not Chareidi myself, I grew up in a Chareidi community and was educated in the Chareidi school system. Surrounded by Chareidis my whole childhood, I nevertheless had a positive experience with Judaism. I was fortunate to have avoided meeting evil Chareidis growing up and through adulthood, unless they were all such skilled hypocrites that they were able to pretend to be like normal people. (Yes, I know sexual abusers appear normal; I’m talking about the other ones.)

          I continue to have a positive experience with this religion. I love Hashem and His Torah. I am proud of my heritage.

          However, that is not the reason I am religious. As a truth seeker, I acknowledge that I do not live in a vacuum, and thus like all humans my objectivity is colored by my biases and preconceived notions. Acknowledging this, I try to seek the truth as best as I can, praying for clarity and guidance along the way.

          My search for truth keeps me in Torah.

          You might argue that my positive experience is my reason for being frum. This was in fact the question that got me started on my search for truth. When I was in my early twenties, I was troubled by the idea that I might be Orthodox only because I was raised that way and because I found this way of life inspiring, uplifting, and fulfilling. I had to learn the answer to that question.

          A good experience with Orthodox Judaism does not make it true; nor does a bad one make it false.

          This does not mean that I do not find much to criticize in the Orthodox community. Of course I do. I also find much to praise. I do not expect perfection from a group of imperfect humans. That is a good expectation to have.

          My apologies to Mr. (Rabbi? Forgive me if I address you by the wrong title) for going off topic. I just wanted to present a different perspective to Seriously’s comment.

        • Dina – I understand that you wanted to add your voice and let others know that there are those who are FFB, BT and Gerim, who are happy, fulfilled and inspired by frumkeit. I respect that.

          However, regarding what you wrote: “They have been BT or converts for decades. They are happy and they love being frum.” I would venture to guess that because you are openly happy and positive about frumkeit, you will not be someone to whom those who are discontent, disillusioned or hurt by frumkeit will unload to or turn to with admissions of their discontentment.

          That being said, I am glad for you that you found what works for you, and find fulfillment in what you believe to be truth. But as a truth seeker, you must admit that the real truth is, no religion can be called “truth” as it cannot be proven as fact. It all comes down to faith. Bible codes, Kuzari, whatever you think “proves” that Torah or Hashem or anything religious is true, is really just a chosen belief. You can prove certain things, but not religion, Torah or God. Additionally, as a truth seeker, I’m sure you have come across theories of how our brains work, and how our brains lead us to believe what would work best for our mental health and psyches. Cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, and other cognitive mechanisms are strongly at play in our minds. So while you are sure that you tried to take a step back and objectively search for truth, in reality your mind, life experiences, and psyche helped lead your way. At the end of the day there is no “truth” in religion, as there is no proof. There is only what we choose to believe, be it in Hashem, Torah, or any other religion or spiritual system.

          A lot of people who were once frum, for whom frumkeit does not currently work in their lives, as well as those who are angry at how the Chareidi system operates, are victims of the deep problems inherent in Chareidi life. They are “bashing” because the mechanisms of Chareidi life hurt them deeply in life-changing ways. Many who express anger and resentment WANT Chareidi life to be different than it is – they want the Chareidi world to be what they believed, hoped and dreamed it was. Chareidi “bashing” as you call it is their last resort, it is often an expression of their feeling so helpless to change things in a system that they see can break and ruin lives all in the name of Hashem, Torah, and kedusha. People who don’t care one way or another, and people who have nothing invested in Chareidi life, are not “bashing” or commenting or even reading a blog like this. They simply don’t care and aren’t affected by the happenings in the Chareidi world one way or another.

          Any open forum that focuses on and is dedicated to covering sexual abuse in the frum world is going to have Chareidi bashing. Chareidim and the Chareidi lifestyle claims to value mussar, self improvement and growth. One would think that criticism of Chareidi systemic cover up of sexual abuse, and the mussar inherent in the bashing, would be something they would embrace, and take VERY seriously rather than something they would reject.

          It is wise to not expect perfection from a group of imperfect humans, as you say. But Chareidism and Chareidi leaders claim perfection and claim to be the bearers of absolute truth. Perhaps your non-Chareidi familial upbringing gave you a sense of balance in this regard. But when Chareidi leaders claim to be the bearers of absolute truth, with a perfect Torah from a perfect God, while simultaneously acting in horrendous, hypocritical, ethically and morally depraved ways, it stretches credulity to their claims and to the Torah which they represent and on which their word is “Torah truth.” If Chareidim grow up to realize that they have been lied to about something as simple as the past 200 years of Jewish history, or about other things in which their education and the Chareidi world claimed to be the truth, while verifiable facts prove otherwise, it breaks down beliefs in mesorah, Torah and even Hashem.

          While you feel fulfilled with this lifestyle, many others were deeply hurt by it. It is no coincidence that the vast majority of advocates for changes in Chareidi approaches to sexual abuse are, themselves, off the derech. They are still deeply invested in their upbringing, their heritage, and are fighting to make sure that what they experienced does not happen to anyone else.

        • Seriously, I do understand that I am biased. That is why I pray for guidance and clarity. I try not to allow emotion to color my judgment, but that is all I can do–try.

          Because emotions are powerful, that is why I said that a positive experience does not make Judaism true, nor does a negative experience make it false.

          I cannot judge people who went off the derech because they suffered horribly at the hands of some evil people pretending to be frum. However, that is not a real argument against the truth of Judaism.

          Some religions claim evidence for the proof of their claims. The Torah does as well. Do you know what that is?

          Having said that, let everyone seek the truth for himself, with an open mind and an open heart, wherever that leads him.

          Last question, in your view, does the Chareidi community have any redeeming qualities, and if so, what are they?

        • Seriously,

          Another point–and this, I think, is the important one.

          If you want to help the children and the women who are abused, you will not help by bashing Chareidis. They will not be able to hear you, and thus you will be ineffective.

          Furthermore, you cannot hope to influence Chareidi Jews to change if you hate them.

          I point this out because I assume that those who engage in Chareidi bashing are well intentioned and do not care more for their personal catharsis than for helping those who are suffering.

          Good Shabbos!

        • “…you cannot hope to influence Chareidi Jews to change if you hate them.”

          Dina – I will try to make this relatively brief, considering how much there is to say. I am middle aged (a broad category these days) and have been Chareidi my entire life. Over the past 10 years I have parted ways with many Chareidi ideologies. However, if you would meet me at a simcha or in shul you would peg me as Chareidi. I do not “hate Chareidim” – I am extremely angry at and am powerless to change the leaders who promote and foster Chareidi cultural norms which deviate from the Torah values that I grew up with and believed to be true, and a perverted Chareidi system that I have seen snowball from obscurity to popularity.

          You said that you live in a community of mainly Baalei Teshuva and Gerim. I’m not sure if the bubble in which you are living is the reason for your rose colored glasses, or if it’s just your personality. But you seem to be disturbed by the idea that someone can “bash” Chareidi life and you feel a need to defend it. So, I thought I’d let you know that you’re knocking on the wrong door. If you’re trying to be mekarev me, don’t bother, I am IN Chareidi life. And I am angry as ever that our leaders and that the general Chareidi public is putting mitzvos which they are comfortable with and decided are of essential value, before that which the Torah itself values before all else. And I am furious that our leaders are going along with the ruse, simply to save their own skin. I no longer believe in the concept of “Emunas Chachamim” because I have dealt with way too many “Chachamim” who are neither a “Chacham,” nor do they lead with responsibility towards the interests of the people who are relying on them for Torah leadership.

          I know that I am not the only one who feels this way. Chareidim are not going to admit these ideas to each other if they even smell for a second that they will be judged for sharing their doubts. But online, where everyone is anonymous, all of a sudden all these people come out of the woodwork and so many are saying, “You too? You are also disillusioned by all this? You are also pained and angry that what you believed to be true is a house of cards?” And it is my hope that we can somehow reinvent this monster, and change it back to what we believed it was. But the first step to change is acknowledging that there are problems. And the problems are so widespread, that it may involve a complete overhaul. Either way, a blog about sexual abuse in the Chareidi world and its widespread coverups is as much a valid blog for cathartic emotional venting about Chareidi life as any other. Or, perhaps it is the best one. Because when Chareidi life hurts people in ways that are a matter of life and death, people start paying attention. Defending perpetrators of sexual abuse is akin to protecting serial murderers. That is not hyperbole, it is provable fact. If this is not a wakeup call, I don’t know what is. And yet as BauMayimAdNafesh has said, there is widespread apathy in the frum world about sexual abuse, supported by Gedolim, promoted by Rabbanim. We pour more money into Kiruv movements, than we do into a problem that KILLS children and adults and sends them running OTD if not jumping off a bridge.

          So, this is a good place to start cathartically emotionally venting. And, it being a week before Rosh Hashanah, it is a good time to scream from the rooftops – Uru Yisheinim MiShenaschem!! If Chareidi life protects sexual abusers, while Penn State punishes them, tell me, which does the Hashem want? Well, if you believe the Neviim spoke for Hashem, read the first perek of Yishayahu – he’ll tell you loud and clear.

          Good Shabbos.

        • Seriously,

          There is much I’d like to say in response to your comment, but I will stick to what is most important: the tactics that I believe most effective in changing the cover-up culture among the Chareidi, thus reducing sexual abuse and helping its victims.

          Since neither you nor I are Isaiah, we are going to have to use different tactics (even he was unsuccessful, as you know).

          First, a word of optimism: changes are slow, but winds of change are indeed blowing. One example is the action taken by the Chicago Special Beis Din. Another example is the Chareidi child sex abuse advocate, Rabbi Yankel Horowitz. (See http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1440&ThisGroup_ID=238).

          Do not lose hope.

          As you correctly noted, we must acknowledge the problems in order to fix them. The problem in the Chareidi world vis-a-vis sexual abuse is the denial and cover-up. What is the solution?

          I don’t know. But I think you have a small measure of influence–you say you feel helpless to do anything, but there is something. You can persuade others of your point of view, one person at a time. Or several at once, if they read your comments on this blog.

          In my view, the best way to persuade people stuck in denial is to offer a bit of understanding. It is wrong for people to deny evil in their midst, but it is understandable for people shocked and horrified by it to want to–nay, to need to–deny it. With that understanding offered, you can present a reasoned appeal to their conscience, such as the article by Rabbi Horowitz that I linked to.

          I further believe that Chareidi Jews who sense that this blog is a forum for Chareidi bashing will not take you seriously and will dig in their heels. Such, alas, is human nature. Since we cannot change human nature, we must work with it.

          If you want to change their attitude, if you want to make inroads, you will take the approach I have outlined.

          If you care more for your personal emotional catharsis than for the victims of abuse, then what can I say? You will surely not help the victims, you will surely not help to effect changes, with such tactics.

          • Dina, In various ways you are saying:
            -rabbinic Judaism is just great
            -chareidism is the carrier of it
            -insiders don’t like biting criticism
            -QED, therefore, speak gently and persuasively.

            Naturally, there is wisdom in not being unnecessarily provocative. The problem is knowing which cases fall into the bailiwick of needlessly provocative.

            Let me pose a question for you. Are you really just advocating the line of don’t say more than the system will allow you to say? Perhaps, you know what they do to chew up and defame those who say the unvarnished truth. Maybe, what you are couching as advice about persuasion is really the wisdom of timidity.

            Recommended reading: Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail.

            ‘I have yet to engage in a direct-action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”‘

        • Mr. Lopin,

          The answer to your question is no. I posted a link in my previous comment to the type of action that is effective. I hope that further clarifies my position.

          I have plenty of criticism of the Chareidi community, and I’m open about it. But it’s tempered, if I may be so bold, by a much more balanced perspective than that promoted by this blog’s commenters.

          Keeping in mind the end result for the victims, you (not you personally, sir) have no hope of persuading Chareidim with comments such as these, and I paraphrase:

          1. You will burn in hell.
          2. You are an ignoramus who doesn’t know halacha, so keep your mouth shut.
          3. May you not have any children because you should not duplicate yourself.
          4. The majority of Chareidim are unethical and immoral. They’re even worse than the goyim!
          5. Rabbis are greedy, power-hungry hypocrites (general broad brushstroke).
          6. The kiruv movement is a sham. Kiruv workers reel in unsuspecting victims with deceitful tactics; the victims later regret their choice and feel betrayed. (What does this even have to do with the topic of this blog?)
          7. Poking fun of the notion that older single girls in ever-increasing numbers are not finding their match. (What does that have to with helping sex abuse victims?)

          How is this going to help reverse the climate of denial and cover-up, I ask you? I do believe that it will achieve the opposite end, God forbid, by driving away those who might be persuaded.

          I know Chareidim have responded in kind; that means that everyone else ought to take the high road.

          To be sure, making these type of statements is satisfying. But since it will harm rather than help, those making them care more about their own egos than the victims of abuse. It’s that stark, and it’s that simple.

          This is just plain common sense, sir.

          • I completely agree that obnoxious,-overly-broad generalizations and insults are pointless. However, they are small part of the back and forth and come from both directions by boorish, obnoxious people. OTOH, this blog is focused on changing how the orthodox world handles sex abuse. As such, notwithstanding individual exceptions, it is fair to say it usually covers this up and punishes victims who dare to speak out.

            It is also fair to say that there are serious problems of excessive control of minutae combined with lessening ethical standards. Many informed insiders say it including many committed to the world, and pained by this.

        • Dina – I hear your point. I will give it some thought and consider it. It seems that your goal is effecting positive change in the Chareidi world’s attitudes and actions (or lack of action as it were) regarding dealing with and preventing sexual abuse. I both respect and share that goal and will consider what you have said. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Wishing you a Gut Yur.

      • BauMayim – It sounds like you are doing the best you can. And that is all that any of us can ever do. Even while they may be legal adults, your children are still young. In 10, 15 or 20 years they will see things differently, and the black and white of their young, not fully developed minds will turn to grey, just as it did for all of us. When they mature, they will be able to have a mature conversation with you about these things. Until then, don’t worry about how they perceive you. They love you as their mother and always will. They will find their own way and make their own mistakes along the way. They are young and judgmental now, and at this stage in their lives they continue to think their parents are stupid and don’t know anything. Unfortunately, it’s age-appropriate. But time and age will humble them, for better or for worse (but hopefully for better).

        But this is a tough time for you to be their mother. If they are over 18, don’t push your beliefs incessantly. If you’ve said it once, they know what you believe. Instead, focus on your shared beliefs, your shared interests, and foster the connection and unconditional love that comes with your being their mother. Remind your kids that no matter WHAT they choose in life, even if you vehemently disagree with their choices, you will always love them and care about them more than anything in the world, and you will always be their mother and that is what is most important to you. That will go farther than any speech you give them about your beliefs. Try to find things that they do and say that you DO agree with and praise them for it. Use positive reinforcement as though they were little kids. Praise them for the things you value – good middos, being a good, caring person, going out of their way to help others, being honest, etc. They may not show it, but it will mean a lot to them. Kids at this age are still asserting their independence – like 2-year-olds. They need to prove to themselves and to you that they are mature and capable adults – even while you and I know that they are still “kids.” But you are better off going along with the show than fighting it. Pick your battles and don’t bother with the losing battles. They know what is important to you, and they know your beliefs at this point. At this point they want you to value them as smart and capable people who do not need your guidance. They would NEVER admit to you that they would be completely lost without you in their lives. Your daughter gives you the message that YOU are not good enough, not frum enough, and that she is not happy with you. But in reality, SHE is afraid that SHE is not good enough FOR YOU. So show her that she is good enough for you, because in essence, she is your daughter, you love her and that is all the matters at the end of the day. She will make mistakes in life, we all do, and hopefully her mistakes will not be too destructive. But if she’s 18+, then your teaching and instructing years are over. You can only lead by example now, and only if she chooses to follow. Remember to focus on her positive traits and even if she doesn’t seem to care or notice, she is hearing you loud and clear and cares very much about what you think of her. Ditto for boys, who are too macho and immature to show how much it means to them. Children want and crave their parents’ approval, no matter how old they are.

        • Mr. Lopin, is there some rule against emotional catharsis for people posting comments here? I think you do a pretty good job of posting the cold hard facts. I’m new to this sort of thing, so if I’m doing it wrong, please let me know. It seems to me that the whole point of Truthseeker’s post, she should live and be well, was to give an idea of her thoughts, impressions, and emotions while in sem, and not necessarily to deal only in pure facts. And, of course I want to help victims of abuse, but I also want to get a better understanding of the environment and the culture that fostered the abuse. If that is called Chareidi bashing, then so be it.

          • No, there are no boundaries on impressions, emotions, reactions, etc. Obviously, reasonable people can have different reactions to the same facts, and unreasonable people can go further and even deny the essential facts. But we are humans with both direct perceptions of facts and emotional reactions. The culture that sustains abuse partakes of both of these realities, and the struggle to confront abuse involves both those levels as well as policy changes, education about facts, support for victims/survivors and use of legal and criminal justice options. These are all part of the stew and of the nature of this blog.

        • I just want to add, if I may, that I have come to the conclusion that frum Jews are neither better, nor worse, than anyone else in the world. My friends are lazy thinkers, self absorbed, unwilling to face uncomfortable facts, and quite indifferent to those facts when they are forced to confront them. They are also kind, generous, giving people who truly want to help others, if it’s regarding the sort of problems they feel comfortable with. Likewise, my experiences as a left wing Chareidi have been a mixed bag. While I can’t agree that Yiddishkeit has been the greatest pleasure of my life, it has given me much joy in the form of my family. I don’t regret that my parents became BTs. I don’t think the outside world is any better. I just wish that they understood a bit better what they were getting into, and that they could have warned me the way I warn my children about the dangers of “Emunas Chachomim”. Dina, please check out UOJ and search Yudi Kolko scandal, if you have not done so already. Check out CP Scheinberg’s written halachik response kashering pedophilia as long as there is no penetration, and allowing Kolko to molest boys for an extra 20 years. You will then understand what I say about the dangers of Emunas Chachamim.

    • There was a rule against nail polish, just like in all bais yaakov seminaries. Nail polish is balck or white. You are wearing it or you aren’t. Being inappropriate is not.

        • Im not sure what the ” huh” is about so Ill just explain my whole point:
          In Israel it is not considered tznius to wear nail polish, therefore BY seminaries don’t allow it ( Im not getting into whether or not its tznius in America either..)
          Blaming him for enforcing rules that are clear cut is just showing that your emotions are getting the best of you. You are pulling up every stupid little thing you can think of against him, regardless of whether or not it is even relevant. Yelling at someone for braking the rules does not prove Rabbi Kahane covered for Meisels, it just proves that he yelled at her for wearing sparkly nail polish.
          In addition to that, it is easy to tell whether or not someone is wearing nail polish. Its not as easy to tell whether someone is being friendly, or “friendly”.

      • “Yelling at someone for braking the rules does not prove Rabbi Kahane covered for Meisels…”

        Thank you for putting words into my mouth which I never said.

      • This is for seriously? above at 3:09PM. 9/17.
        wow. You hit all bases. frankly, i am stupid i thought you also were BT. dumb me. but you comment is all encompassing. so on the mark. 2 years ago, when i started reading negative stuff on “kiruv” i could not imagine what could be negative about kiruv. i had no experience. still not, but is family member who is BT, and not because of any kiruv, but it drives a knife through families. chagim, visiting, and i am strictly kosher at home (and reasonably out, you know the line, only veg. and fish and dairy out). but BT no longer visits, part is the logistics.
        of chagim and splitting btw two parents where a tiny bit of travel is involved, so, yeah, at first i was really “tickled pink” that she was becoming observant, I am a closet wannabe ortho, ‘non-practicing” ortho as someone used to say.

        Your comment above is classic, so very impt, but who will read it, and how could it help anyone? my background is not frum, but a bit traditional, kosher always and ad etsem hayom hazeh. and i aint young. family was from proskurov, next to Medzibozh, the stomping grounds of the Besht. proskurov became Khmelnitsky. but still maternal family was not frum ever, as far as i know, although there was a state RABBI (political position??) great great grandfather in Rovno in the Ukraine. but still not, the few that came to US not frum, here, and probably not there.
        I lost a family member, for various reasons, but the logistics of being BT, with lack of travel over 4 day chagim. makes it a fait accompli, i am always the loser, and to think that i rejoiced when this person announced that she was going to try to be shomer shabbat. i am not, just an aspiration for my next gilgul, maybe well. it was. your comment was superb. should be printed and distributed. you had me fooled, did not guess that you were generational ffb, me bad. you so ring true to me. i so identify with everything you write. and me, a “non-practicing” ortho, or conservadox, or orthoprax, i do not know what, but i spend all day on a million ortho sites.

        • Chashdan – I’m sorry that you are having a hard time with your relative who became frum. It can be very hard on families. Maybe you can be the one to travel out to them? On Chagim? On Sundays? If not, can you use Skype on Sundays or evenings when they are home? Are there other ways in which you can bridge the gap?

  19. As the parent of a young lady who was supposed to be attending Binas, I want to thank Truthseeker and all the others who came forward – to the Bais Din and through other forums, to protect girls like my daughter.
    Prior to going to Israel, there is so much preparation that needs to be done. By the time the girls go there, they are so excited to have made it. They expect to be in a completely safe environment within the school. They implicitly trust their mechanchim. They are all vulnerable in some way, shape or form.
    I am so grateful to the brave young women who had the courage to come forward and speak out against the schools. Thanks to them, girls like my own daughter could stay safe and avoid the agony that these girls have been going through. I can’t thank you enough.

  20. Note that the beith din acknowledges that it was ready to keep the story under cover, if the conditions were met, which was Frum follies’ original criticism…

    • I think the letter means that they would have handled the individuals involved appropriately, but would not have publicly advised that the seminaries be dismantled. When they saw that a cover-up was in the works they had no choice but to essentially shut down the seminaries.

      • I understood that they were not going to publish that there was a problem of sexual nature with E. Meisels. i.e. he could have started all over again at a different place.

      • SoSo has it right. The culture even amongst the best is still not the way it should be. The Jewish “System” does not have a registry for sex offenders!

  21. What happened to the lengthy comment by Truthseeker yesterday, which gave more details than what is contained in this letter? Why has it been deleted?

  22. Lopin,

    Why did you remove TS comment about her recent conversation with CBD?

    TS,

    I did not see Opinion using foul language

  23. Back of the envelope analysis on Seminaries lost income:
    60 students x $20K = $1.2M (all directly goes to the bottom line)
    Plus Elimlech had to retain armies of lawyers. Lawyers to defend on possible criminal behavior. Lawyers to deal with the real/fake sale of the schools. Lawyers to fight the RICO lawsuit for the refund of the tuition deposit. These lawyers don’t come cheap & he needs different lawyers representing different areas of specialties. (Not for profit law/international law/tax law/criminal law and on and on…).
    You think Aaron Twerski comes cheap? Look at his website. He represented Sonja Kohn effectively -for reference.

  24. yes, it was offensive I agree…I thought by foul you meant 4 letter words. That is the typical understanding of “foul” language.

  25. Would like to clarify that #5 claim of staff covering up might not have been from me.

    ” A student reported misconduct to another senior administrator, who responded that the student should remain silent lest Meisels ruin her shidduch prospects.”

    Might very well have been from another student. Not sure. I know many called the CBD.

  26. OBJECTION:

    ” 5. “A student reported misconduct to another senior administrator, who responded that the student should remain silent lest Meisels ruin her shidduch prospects.”

    COMMENT: numbering added by blogger. Items 5 was reported about Meir Kahane, principal of Chedvas by TruthSeeker. Item 6 was posted on Frum Follies as Kahane‘s Folly. ”

    First of all, to the best of my knowledge, “TruthSeeker” never wrote in her guest post that she had “reported misconduct” to Rabbi Kahane. She said she had called him to discuss the case after the whole scandal was already out. See her original post here: https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/truthseeker-is-the-pseudonym-of-a-former-student-in-elimelech-meisels-seminaries-she-describes-her-initial-enthusiasm-the-charismatic-flirtatious-nature-of-meisels-leadership-his/

    Secondly, she never said that Rabbi Kahane responded by saying she should “remain silent lest Meisels ruin her shidduch prospects”. He never told her not to report any actual misconduct to authorities…! He was telling her that she should be careful not to spread lashon hara that is not l’toeles lest the malachim speak negatively about her in shamayim. He never said anything about Meisels.

    Again, point #5 is a complete deviation from what “TruthSeeker” actually said happened in her original post.

    This is complete sheker- motzei shem ra at its sickest. I don’t know why the CBD considers this point valid at all (or point #6 for that matter) and I sincerely hope you point out the truth to them before more innocent people like Rabbi Kahane get pulled into this.

    • Those that know Mr. Eli Meisels tell me this is his style of argumentation. They can smell his fingerprints all over it. If so, I am delighted to have an exchange with him or the proxy who posted it for him. Though I wish he would also share his texts and pictures.

      In fact Eli, if it is you, since you are claiming that that it was just a few misunderstood hugs and you have done complete teshuvah, why don’t you prove it. ‘Tis the season of Ellul. So why don’t you publicly apologize to your victims and offer compensation to those who have suffered nezek tzar, ripui, sheves, and boishes (damage that was physical, painful, involved healing costs, lost work time, and shame). But of course you won’t because you are still trying to manipulate, shame and intimidate victims. Eli, if you insist you are innocent, why don’t you put out a public copy of a signed statement authorizing the Chicago Beis Din to report what you admitted and what they found out about you. Come on Eli. What have you got to lose if it was just a hug to girl in dire emotional distress. OTOH, if…… Your call Eli.

      If it is you Eli, you are not so stupid that you cannot discern how Kahane was making a shidduch threat. Too bad, it backfired.

      If it is you Eli, you know what Kahane was told. You had him on a string. To pursue his kanois for kiruv, since he despised his MO family in Memphis where he is still known as Mikey, he needed your financial backing to run Chedvas as a cross between Lanner-style NCSY and Aish spooky bible codes mysteries and to make like G-d, promise the moshiach and claim to know what the malachim whisper to hashem. He is a scary wacko, but he needed your financial backing and was willing to sacrifice girls to you in pursuit of his agenda. Classic mitzva haba baveira. But you didn’t care as long as you got him to do what you wanted.

      If it is you Eli, don’t you worry about Chicago having accurate info about you. They have stripped away all the facts and know what is underneath your heimish bagadim.

      If it is you Eli, why were you willing to risk being exposed to protect the jobs of Hindy Ullman and others. Does her father Shmuel Fried have you over a barrel or did he promise you some sleazy way of beating the Chicago Beis Din.

      Eli, I think you miscalculated and you are going to lose both your seminary and your reputation. Get ready for the police and also losing your freedom.

      BTW, big guy, how did you perpetrate the fraud of having California license plates in Israel.

      YL

      PS – Eli, Is it true that at the minyanim in the sem the chazan wouldn’t wait for you to finish kriah shema because you never got to emes?

      • YL- “encore”

        I think that if it ISN’T Eli, then someone should personally give him YL’s response.

        Eli- I get physically nauseous remembering the image of your body and hands from sem- imagining you forcing them on a girl. The best would be to have u go to jail and then become not frum, wearing jeans and a t-shirt and no yarmulka- bc then your defenders will betray you as well. I cannot imagine HK”BH ever wanting your “teshuvah”. I can sense that day coming near…

        You are truly a sociopath. You have the ability to hug your daughter at her HS graduation with the SAME hands and body you were sexually active with SO MANY GIRLS her very age. Imagine someone doing that to YOUR daughter, Eli. Oh wait..you can’t…sociopaths don’t feel for others…

        Don’t be shocked when a group of angry and vengeful parents storm towards your house with pitchforks and torches for the things you have done to their daughters…so have ruined SO SO many.

        • I hate to interrupt your revenge fantasies, but just wanted to point that there are frum people who wear jeans and a t-shirt.

      • I would add, Mr. Meisels, that if it were my daughter, and lucky for you it’s not, that I would be paying you a visit in person. I would not be interested in arguing the finer points of which beis din has jurisdiction, nor would I be interested in financial compensation. I’d just be there to make you pay physically.

        I wonder how many other fathers feel the same way I do?

      • Wow. So your true colors come out. I didn’t even want to dignify this with a response, but I’m afraid that people will read your blog and come away thinking they are getting the truth.

        Yerachmiel, I’m sorry if you think every person who opposes you on this blog is Meisels himself, or co-conspirators posting for him. I don’t think what he did was right, or anyone who enabled any abuse of his. All I ask is that you report honestly, and without twisting or exagerating the facts to suit your perverted prejudices. Especially in a case as sensitive as this where there are many innocent people’s lives and reputations at stake. Like they say, the pen is mightier than the sword.

        And regarding what you wrote about in your post “Kahane’s Folly” (original here:
        -https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/kahanes-folly/) – let’s just say I hardly think you can be called upon to be a judge of what is considered l’toeles and what is not.

        At the end of the day the true Beis Din is the Beis Din Shel Maalah, where each one of us will be judged on whether our actions in this situation were 100% l’shem shamayim or not.

        In the meantime, please change what you wrote in points #5 and #6 as the CBD is using your ridiculous and deceitful claims as “proof” of “covering up” against Rabbi Kahane and other staff.

          1. I will disregard your insults so we can focus on facts.
          2. You say “there are many innocent people’s lives and reputations at stake.” Yes, and most of those are victims of Meisels ten year spree of indulging himself sexually to the great detriment of many students. But I think you are talking about the staff. If they enabled abused by covering it up, they are not innocent. Where is it written in the Torah that the job of a teacher or principal is more important than preventing abuse? I think that claim is kefirah.

          3. I never said that the CBD is using my claims. I never attended the seminaries and could not be a witness to them. They are an honest BD and would not play the second-hand games of the IBD and those who signed verifications of kashrus without ever hearing from witnesses who were students. I was saying that the kind of things I reported were the kinds of facts and reports by students that may account for some of the statements in the letter of Rav Gedalia Dov Schwartz to the IBD lawyer, Aaron Twersky. While I have spoken to a few people who spoke to the CBD, I have no direct knowledge from them of the specific ways in which they reached their conclusions or of the many other witnesses to whom they spoke.

          I think Kahane is a sick man who has delusions about what malachim are going to say to hashem about shidduchim. I am far from perfect. I have a lot to think about in Ellul as I do my reckoning. But I have no doubt that my work in fighting abuse stands in my favor.

        • YL has been honestly reporting this entire time. I someone who did not want to blame my teachers for lying and covering up, but after speaking to kahane and having many other facts being brought to the plate (NOT by YL), it is clear that the staff is covering up to save themselves. It is sad. I don’t want to think badly of these ppl who I use to look up to. But I refuse to look the other way and excuse them of their terrible behavior. They are no role models to me any longer. Very far from it.

          And that is a silly claim you say that the CBD is using YL’s info to blame staff. Do u know just how the CBD made their claims? By thorough investigation NOTHING to so with FrumFollies. None of the dayanim even have internet. And it was explained already that #5 did not stem from my discussion with kahane.

          • Just for some history. I have only been focused on abuse in the orthodox community for about 6 years. I started blogging ~5 years ago. (The CBD has been dealing with abuse for ~15 years.

            I was aware that Meisels had a reputation as an abuser and he was being pressured to resign. I heard this in late June for the first time from a source far from Chicago. I was not aware of the Chicago Special Beis Din’s investigation into Meisels until I saw the first public psak on July 10th which I posted on July 11. I have since communicated with a number of former students. However, to the best of my knowledge, those that spoke to the CBD spoke to them before I was in touch with these witnesses. Through intermediaries I have become aware of other victims of sexual misconduct by Meisels. I encouraged those intermediaries to encourage those former students to get in touch with the CBD. But the CBD did not base its descriptions of Meisels on information coming from me. What I know about the CBD’s findings come from reading their documents and by hearing from people who have spoken to the CBD in private.

            I don’t control them in any way. Nor do they control me. I report on their positions as I learn about them. I also have occasionally had some criticism, because I feel they would have done better to say more about Meisels sooner. However, on the whole, they have gone further and more competently in publicly and legally confronting abuse than any other Haredi Beis Din I know of.

      • YL:

        What are you referring to with California license plates? And if he shleps someone’s old plates to Israel and puts them on his minivan, why is that fraud? Too cute for the traffic police perhaps, but fraud?

        • Lopin, who said the plates are in his name?
          Who said he doesnt have a house in California? So many possibilities..

          • Yes, so many possibilities. Having a house and being a resident are two different things. We do know he does not live in California, though at times it seems like he did a lot of living it up in his van.

        • Meisles once described to me how he got away with the Cali license plate. He was awfully proud of himself for getting around the law. He’s very impressed with himself.

          I brought this up to a teacher in the school bc I was bother by his lack of honesty(not using Meisles’ name). The teacher said “if you’re trying to get around the law to do something that is technically ‘okay’, then you are doing the wrong thing and not being an honest person.”

      • He has california license plates, in ISRAEL?
        Thats bizarre…
        Was it like a 15 passenger van or a minivan?

      • Maybe if the people commenting here actually knew what the Chafetz Chaim said, they would be less horrified by what Kahane said (at least with regard to threats). The following is a quote from the Chafetz Chaim’s Shmirat Halashon I Shaar Hatevunah chapter 17 (I am including the Hebrew so at least you, YL, can confirm the accuracy of the translation):
        (13) ספר שמירת הלשון ח”א – שער התבונה – פרק יז
        גַּם יִתְבּוֹנֵן הָאָדָם וְיֵדַע, שֶׁבְּעֵת שֶׁהוּא מְסַפֵּר לָשׁוֹן הָרָע עַל חֲבֵרוֹ, גַּם לְמַעְלָה מַזְכִּירִין הַמַּלְאָכִים אֶת עֲוֹנוֹתָיו, כְּמוֹ שֶׁכָּתַב הָרוֹקֵחַ בְּסִפְרוֹ, וְכֵן אִיתָא גַּם כֵּן בַּאֲגָדַת מִשְׁלֵי:
        “A person should also ponder and know that when he tells lashon Hara about his friend, above also the angels mention [presumably to Hashem] his sins, as Rokeach writes in his book, and as can be found in the Midrash of Mishlei.”
        According to TruthSeeker, Rabbi Kahane told her that she needs a shidduch [which requires favorable action in Heaven] and she does not need the angels speaking unfavorably of her to Hashem. That is not a threat, just a straightforward understanding of what the Chafetz Chaim says regarding Lashon Hara. Of course, it can be argued that her speaking out is toeles. It could also be argued that with Meisels out and the specter of what had occurred hanging over the school, a reasonable person could believe (rightly or wrongly) that there was no longer any toeles to speaking that lashon Hara. In any case, it does make him more reasonable– at least for anyone who considers the Chafetz Chaim reasonable, and a proper source for conduct.

        • Do u also call it reasonable that kahane also spoke to girls and was telling them that “the girl is crazy- she was in love with him and rabbi Meilses was only trying to help her and now she’s trying to ruin his life by making all this up.”

          Does this sound reasonable to you?? I know he was telling girls this. 100%. When I accused him of that l”h, he shut his mouth and got nervous. Then he accused me of recording him during our phone call bc he got scared.

          I did not put in all the details of our phone call in my article. Perhaps I should have. I regret it now.

        • It could be argued that cutting and pasting a bunch of text without context is stam am’aratzus. The context here is that the enablers are still employed by the seminaries. The seminaries are still in full-blown denial, as there have been no apologies forthcoming. Even worse, it appears that the financial strings haven’t been cut, as evidenced by this post which shows that the takeover by Yarmush or anyone else for that matter, has yet to be finalized.

          So if you think that this is finished and that there’s no reason to keep discussing it, then you better tell Kahane The Insane he’s got another thing coming.

        • This person is a chossid shoiteh. EM already admitted to the CBD that he is guilty as the day is long. What should one do, Ish MeBeis Levi, when you seek to protect sociopaths like EM & his victims? Tell his victims to shut up & let a sociopath go one with his crimes? I think not. It is out in the public domain & such a sociopath is a danger to others, so there is no loshon hora involved, you chossid shoiteh, in notifying the community of this dangerous person. It takes a lot of guts for the victims of this sociopath to tell others in the community when there are plenty of chossid shoitehs, such as yourself, who don’t believe that this danger should be named and confronted; instead, if we don’t talk about it, it’s like it never happened! Ah, but what about preventing future victims of this sociopath? Ha! Your thinking continues in circular (il)logic: if we don’t talk about it, it’s like it never happened, yet again! You’re thinking is that of a chossid shoiteh. You also posted the same drivel here: http://dusiznies.blogspot.com/2014/09/israeli-seminaries-give-new-meaning-to.html

        • If someone admitted that he has stabbed numerous young ladies in the past and now is walking quickly after another young lady, carrying the same knife and following the same M.O., is it ” loshon ha’ra ” to scream out, ” gevalt! The sick guy who stabs young ladies for kicks is at it again! Run for your lives! Someone call the police!”

          Anyone who claims that doing so is loshon ha’ra and forbidden not only is a chased shiteh [pious idiot] but desecrates the name of the Chofetz Chaim.

          Now it’s Elul … Do you really want the beis din in Shamayim to add such an aveira to your list of sins?

        • Wow! so much emotion! Can’t we get any logical points stated without emotional restatements of the bigger picture?To Kosher Ham (“when you seek to protect sociopaths like EM & his victims”) and Professional (“If someone admitted that he has stabbed numerous young ladies in the past and now is walking quickly after another young lady, carrying the same knife and following the same M.O.”), all I said was that Kahane could reasonably believe “(rightly or wrongly)” that with Meisels thrown out and with the specter of what occurred hanging over the school [making the likelihood of anything similar happening there again far smaller] “there was no longer any toeles to speaking that lashon hara.” Again, a reasonable person could — RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY — believe that, based on what the Chafetz Chaim says. No, KH, I did not write that to Dusizneies, nor do I read his blog, but I do not find it surprising that someone else knows what the Chafetz Chaim says (even if he may have misapplied it). Truthseeker, you may believe that Rabbi Kahane is a hypocrite, but that does not change that he could reasonably have believed what he said to you at the time. Triangle, nothing you said has anything to do with what I wrote, and I certainly never said that I think “think that this is finished and that there’s no reason to keep discussing it.”
          Meisels is totally out — whether or not the sale actually went through. At least for the short term, his life is over. The chances of him being allowed to step foot in any seminary anywhere in the world is about as likely as ham truly becoming kosher. The emotional response of not being satisfied until Meisels is all but tarred and feathered (one commented that he wanted him to commit suicide) is perhaps understandable — but at least by dictionary definition — not reasonable.

          • A number of people who have spoken to Kahane have compared notes including his emails. He lies and tells different students different things. If by some wild chance he believes he is telling the truth, the man is suffering some major mental illness problems. OTOH, what is much more likely is that he knows darn well he is lying. He is desperately maneuvering to hold onto his job.

            Meanwhile, the word from the supposedly reformed seminaries is that when the question of Meisels comes up they are being told it was just a few hugs, the fuss came from accusations for a disturbed girl, and Meisels did teshuva gemoora for his tiny sins. If the staff believe it they are terminally stupid and would not be able to recognize the next meisels in action. OTOH, I am pretty sure, Mikey Kahane, Ullman, Soloff, Karp, and Simon know darn well that it was not so little and the very fact of Meisels continued denial is proof he did not do teshuva.

        • “Meisels is totally out — whether or not the sale actually went through. At least for the short term, his life is over. The chances of him being allowed to step foot in any seminary anywhere in the world is about as likely as ham truly becoming kosher. The emotional response of not being satisfied until Meisels is all but tarred and feathered… is perhaps understandable — but at least by dictionary definition — not reasonable.”

          Ish mibeis Levi – The same staff is still working in all the Seminaries that covered up for Meisels out of fear of losing their jobs. Meisels is NOT “totally out” as you say, if owns the Seminaries and the “sales” or transfers are not complete or were transferred to Meisels’ proxies. The same staff that was afraid to lose their jobs before, will still be afraid of their employer when he says that he “just need to go to the dorm to check out the problem with the electrical panel” or whatever excuse he gives. An employee cannot prevent their employer from “stepping foot in any seminary anywhere in the world.” And if they covered for their employer before, the assumption has to be that they will do so again (where the safety and protection of girls is at risk). This is not about tarring and feathering or about your personal ideas (and NOT “dictionary definition”) of reasonable. Reasonable is assuming that those who covered for him when their jobs were at stake will cover for him again while he is still their employer and while they know he is still behind their paychecks. It is not possible for anyone, even newly hired “frum police,” to prevent the employees who previously covered for Meisels from covering for him again while Meisels is in control, whether that control is via his friends, family or other proxies, And even a new employe who was supposedly hired to oversee the 4 Seminaries is still being employed by and is subject to being controlled by Meisels. (Not to mention the fact that one person cannot be in 4 places at one time). As we have seen, Seminary girls are way too naïve and trusting of their teachers or of staff who are making excuses. They are also well as way too vulnerable to the threat of shidduchim hanging over their heads. The Seminary girls cannot be trusted to be the whistleblowers if Meisels IS indeed seen by one of them to be creeping around trying to get his foot in the door again. The ONE whistleblower who went public about the atmosphere and issues she saw at the Seminaries was ruthlessly attacked (TruthSeeker). While the fox is in control of the staff guarding the henhouse, none of the girls are safe, and that is the bottom line, whether or not YOU think it is reasonable, and no matter how you twist the halachos of lashon hara to fit your ideas about kashering the Seminaries and the staff who covered for Meisels in order to protect their jobs.

  27. The ongoing attacks on TS,on the surface, are meant to divert attention from the content of the letter sent by the CBD. She didn’t write that she was abused or actually witnessed abuse. But in reality her descriptions of the atmosphere which allowed Rabbi “Tatti” Meisels to ignore normal (halakhic) restrictions on his behavior with students threatens the mentality that permeated the seminaries. Many other students saw what TS saw but they are unable to admit that their Tatti was using them for his sexual pleasure. If the environment was not healthy then the religious impact of the year becomes suspect. TS has to be seen as disloyal and problematic in order to maintain control over other graduates. When Rabbi Kahane’s letters are recognized as an attempt to silence those who know too much rather than pure spiritual guidance the entire structure might crumble.
    The defence that since Meisels is gone every thing is fine is based on the assumption that the schools are wonderful but there was a person involved who acted improperly who is no longer there. if however the process used by the seminaries to influence the students was a distortion of normative Halakha creating a cult like control then radical change is needed.

    • “When Rabbi Kahane’s letters are recognized as an attempt to silence those who know too much rather than pure spiritual guidance the entire structure might crumble.”

      This. Exactly.

      Why can no one see it?

  28. I stumbled on this blog while searching for information about the Meisels seminary scandal. I was pleased to discover that someone had undertaken the task of exposing the culture of denial and cover-up in the Chareidi community that protects and enables abusers and prevents crimes from taking place.

    This work is essential and nothing I say below changes that.

    I started reading the comments and became concerned that this blog would not be as effective as I had originally hoped. It was easy to see, judging by the comments, that this blog can easily be perceived by Chareidi Jews as a forum for Chareidi bashing. If that is the case, then they would be right not to take you seriously.

    If you–and by you I mean those who comment on this blog as well as the moderator–want to effect change in the Chareidi community, there is only one way to do it, in my view. You must appeal to their sense of justice and compassion.

    You do this by explaining your position and backing it with Scriptural citations (some of you have done this rather well) and whatever halachic backing is appropriate. Also, expressing a little empathy will go a long way.

    If someone, for example, accuses you of spreading lashon hara and making a chillul Hashem and warns you that you will burn in hell, you will not help your cause by responding that he will burn in hell too, and that you hope he doesn’t have any children, and that if he does have children, that they don’t have children, and, well, you get the drift.

    You will help your cause, however, by letting him know that you understand why he is upset and thinks this is lashon hara and a chillul Hashem, but it is not, and here is why. Then you give your explanation. Write with as little emotion as possible and with as much sensitivity as possible.

    Minds are not changed overnight, but patience and humility will win the day.

    I say this not to make anyone angry, defensive, or ashamed. I say this because I share your desire to right wrongs, and I fear that the cathartic venting of feelings will serve the opposite purpose.

    Shana tova to all.

      • “Thanks for upholding the integrity level of the blog. Truly important.”

        Huh? In what way does this have to do with the integrity level of the blog?

        • Sometimes ppl can get upset and write derogatory comments which have no purpose. It’s just a reminder to keep the conversation and comments useful and not make the blog a “free for all”.

        • If I may take the liberty, I think Truth Seeker means raising the level of discourse. At least, that is what I would like to believe :).

    • Dina, I am part of the Charedi community. When I discovered the Kolko case in 2006, I spoke to everybody I knew. They are my friends, relatives, coworkers. All good people, kind people. I was shocked at their rank indifference to the horrors of sex abuse! After I got past the disbelief, do you know what they said? “maybe he could do teshuva”, “what did he do that was really so bad” or “why do you care? Were you or someone close to you sexually abused as a child” or, regarding the first person to publicize the fact that Kolko abused him “Oh, I know who he is, he’s nothing”. Although I don’t doubt that any one of these people would try to raise money for me if I chas v’shalom needed it, I noticed a distinct lack of empathy for the victims of sex abuse. So please, when you talk about empathy, please remember not only the normative chareidim, but also the victims of sex abuse, theft, and even the charedi bashers who so badly want to feel the same level of satisfaction with the religion as you do, but question it and struggle with it.

      • I think you can make a difference, changing hearts and minds. I don’t know why the Chareidi Jews I speak to are so horrified by sexual abuse (all except one, if I must be honest), and the ones you speak to are indifferent. I don’t have an answer to that.

        I think you can appeal to their sense of justice and compassion, and if that doesn’t work, their commitment to sexual morality. These crimes often fall into the category of gilui arayos, which is one of the three cardinal sins. They threaten kedushas Yisrael. These are points you can make. Again, you will not change them overnight. But you will plant the seeds in their minds.

        Of course I feel empathy for the victims. That’s why I’m giving my own two cents’ worth on how you can influence Chareidi culture for the good. How else are you going to help them?

        • In the abstract, sexual abuse is of course horrible to anyone, including, of course, Haredim. The rub is how to deal with it in reality. A million reasons are offered to not believe any particular accusation. At the end of the day this means that the abstraction does not affect the reality: abuse victims are usually invalidated and stigmatized if they try to speak up.

          Of course there are important exceptions to this general pattern. But most victims cannot console themselves with the exceptions. They respond based on their experience which is usually adverse.

  29. Dina – Please see here:

    https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/truthseeker-is-the-pseudonym-of-a-former-student-in-elimelech-meisels-seminaries-she-describes-her-initial-enthusiasm-the-charismatic-flirtatious-nature-of-meisels-leadership-his/?replytocom=96894#comment-96894

    Yerachmiel is not posting your link until you submit it to him for review. His email address is in the top right corner of the blog.

    If the link becomes available, please let me know so that I can go there and respond.

    • the vote is in… but it is not exactly what you said, YL. chedvas had 50 girls before this. 2 pulled out. he replaced them with 2 others. so he is full. however, I heard but cannot substantiate that this school is no longer affiliated with Pninim. Since its tuition is much less, the owners didn’t really care if they dropped the affiliation or not

      • Nice shilling for Kahane. There is only one entity that owns all four seminaries, Peninim Inc. I am wondering how much they had to reduce tuition to make up for the lost credits and govt aid because the seminaries are not accredited. BTW, is Kahane still telling girls who were abused to stay quiet because otherwise Meisels will spread nasty rumors about them that will ruin their shidduchim. Half the time he threatens people with malachim and the other half with meisels, who is definitely not an angel.

        There is definitely a serious shortfall in students (in addition to closing Pninim shana bet. I am still in the process of ascertaining the numbers, and it is more than one or two.

        • I dont know about any of the other schools. I just happen to know the 2 who pulled out of chedvas, and I know that he replaced them.
          tuition at chedvas[ for israeli americans] is $9,000 for the year.
          yes, all 4 schools were under the pninim 501c3, and kehane told a friend of his that he was going to open his own 501 c3. this does not happen over nite, obviously.
          Also, there were no girls at chedvas who were getting grants or crediits from touro or HTC. Mostly they use MJI, and that school has not pulled out I don’t think,
          the loss of shana beit probably hit their bottom line hard, but they seem to be squeaking by. at least until there is a title IX case- if there will be one. taking a long time..
          I am not familiar with the phase shilling for someone – but I looked it up. there is no need to make such accusations or nastiness. I have plenty to say against Kehane, but the facts are facts—– a teacher told me the classes are full.

          • I have heard that MJI was getting its accreditation through Excelsior and Excelsior pulled out.

            This talk of forming their own 501c3 is silly. It belongs to the parent body and Kahane can only wish. I have heard that the principals were awarded some legal partnership share. The question is when this happened, for what percentage and with what other terms. Some, like Rivky Karp, are claiming that Yarmush/Meisels needs their permission to sell. Obviously they are desperate to avoid the necessary step to clean up those places: firing the enabling principals.

        • Maybe there is a post that I missed, but did you post anywhere any report about “Kahane telling girls who were abused to stay quiet because otherwise Meisels will spread nasty rumors about them that will ruin their shiduchim?” Yes, truthseeker posted that AFTER SHE HEARD that Meisels was out, she turned to Kahane who said something about Malachim and lashon Hara, which is only problematic if SHE was abused or knew someone who was. As I understand Truthseeker’s post, neither apply. I have seen no DIRECT evidence linking of Kahane (by name) to knowledge of abuse — though I have seen plenty of innuendo.
          Let me be clear. Abuse in the Charedi world is unforgivable and must be dealt with. But that does not mean that anyone who sounds funny to me or you is automatically an enabler, and open game to vicious innuendo.
          After some research on my part, I am willing to go out on a limb and challenge you, YL, to prove me wrong. According to my research, that infamous malachim letter was written to fifteen girls who ASKED for Chizuk during this last war — truthseeker was one of the fifteen. Can you post a response from truthseeker — or any other student who got that letter — asserting that it was unsolicited? Obviously the student would not want to identify herself, but there should be some way to indicate that she was indeed a student, and not just a Chareidi basher using a pen name.

          • I should have been clearer. There are also reports of Kahane telling a girl not to complain about Meisels because Meisels would spread nasty stuff about her that would destroy her shidduch reputation.

        • Ish mibeis Levi- u are not following the comments and you are repeating things that have already been discussed. Please read the above comments and maybe some things will clear up for you.

          About Kahane’s letter- NO ONE asked for that letter. Absolutely NO ONE. I certainly did not. And even if girls DID ask for spiritual guidance from kahane, in no way did he do so.

          In no way did he offer support or spiritual guidance. Instead, he acted on his emotions and freaked out about losing his job. He asked an incorrect shayla to a Rav of “if u hear a rumor about someone can u believe it”. The Rav paskin a you cannot. When I heard this, I was appalled at kahane. There WAS proof. He admitted that he never called the CBD to check out the situation and he refused to do so bc it is lashon hara.

          This is what he told me. I exaggerate nothing.

        • Truthseeker did you tell this to the CBD?
          “he acted on his emotions and freaked out about losing his job. He asked an incorrect shayla to a Rav of “if u hear a rumor about someone can u believe it”. The Rav paskin a you cannot. When I heard this, I was appalled at kahane. There WAS proof. He admitted that he never called the CBD to check out the situation and he refused to do so bc it is lashon hara.”
          Let me understand. He “freaked out” — you don’t really know why — when he heard about Meisels, and asked a Rav “If u hear a rumor about someone can u believe it?” According to you, he could have called the CBD to check it out — that means that he first heard about it when CBD was far enough along to reach conclusions, and by that time Meisels was out. So that means that he was unaware that Meisels was doing anything wrong before the CBD came into the picture — and he certainly did not enable Meisels. At the stage that he heard, there was a real question whether there was any ‘lo taamod al dam reacha’ anymore.
          As to why didn’t he call the CBD? WHy would he believe that any responsible beisdin would answer him? A Beis din that has reached the conclusion that there was abuse in an institution and has reasonable doubt that the danger still exists has an obligation to publicize that conclusion. But a responsible Beisdin — or even court of law — cannot be expected to tell anyone who calls up whether a person they have investigated is a criminal or not. They could first be expected to ask what business is it of the caller’s, and what practical difference it makes to him. To his knowledge, Meisels was out, he had no daughter to send to seminary, and as far as he knew there was no one on his staff that was problematic in that sense. So he asked his shailah — true, the way he understood the shaila and not the way you understand it — and got his answer.
          So, truthseeker, you have a dilemma. You dislike Rabbi Kahane and want to do nothing for him. On the other hand, you value truth. The truth emerging from your story is that Kahane knew nothing of Meisels misbehavior while Meisels was in the seminaries — and was freaked out when he heard — and certainly did not enable Meisels. You have the power to spread that truth to the CBD and disperse that specific cloud from around him. You don’t have to worry too much though. You can be sure that enough people here dislike his quirky chinuch methods to keep saying things like “Kahane the insane” and the like. But tell your truth to the CBD!

          • As someone claiming to be a Levite you have misunderstood your mission as being a meshorais to Kahane by singing his praises and humming murmurs of doubt. Bottom line: he is either terminally clueless or willfully evading knowledge. He did not contact Chicago in spite of the relevance of the info for counseling former students hurt by Meisels. If nothing else he is a chosid shoteh (pious fool) who has elevated a krum understanding of loshon horah to avoid responsibility for confronting the evil which he enabled, all to feather his nest as principal of his seminary.

        • Ish mibeis Levi- u astound me by your last comment to me. It seems to me that u are trying to persuade me to “spill put my lies” by saying it’s not too late to tell the “real truth” to the CBD.

          So many of your comments are easily refuted by me and others, it is hard not to assume that you are posting for Kahane. I’m just guessing, of course.

          Your arguments do not make sense and would be answered by clear-cut info that has already been stated.

          Do not work your tricks on me. It’s not gonna work.

          Indeed, I value hardcore Truth above all else and I won’t stop until the correct actions are taken.

        • Obfuscate
          ob·fus·cate
          /ˈäbfəˌskāt/
          verb
          render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible
          EXAMPLE: Comment above by “Ish mibeis Levi” on 09/22/2014 at 7:08 am

      • This proves only one thing – that the oilam is a goilam. People are insane. The shidduch system and the pressure to conform due to the fear of potential shidduch crises makes people do crazy things. Sending their girls to Meisels’ seminaries is one of those crazy things.

        “No longer affiliated with Pninim.” Seriously? Sounds nice, but it’s meaningless. If Meisels, his relatives, his friends or his paid proxies control the seminaries, then they are indeed affiliated. And until there is proof to the contrary these schools all have Meisels’ hand in them controlling them, manipulating their staff, and they all stink from Meisels’ stench. The girls who go to these seminaries continue to be at risk of Meisels having access to them, with his well honed, tried and true, seemingly endless collection of tricks, excuses and manipulations.

        • I didn’t say that. I said:”I heard but cannot substantiate that this school is no longer affiliated with Pninim.”
          This only means that there is talk that chedvas is trying to get out. When I have facts, I will report facts.
          You do not need to be a CPA to know that a school of 50 girls generating $9,000 each is not a particularly attractive financial investment, and that is the one most likely to break off.
          Also, this is the school or Haredi Americans living in Israel. Most of them do not follow the US story so closely, and would be more inclined to follow the Israeli Beis Din.
          We know several girls going there now. They say that things are normal. nothing unusual.

  30. I don’t have any real knowledge about the 501c3, legal partnerships, etc.
    BUT I do have accurate and first hand information about Excelsior and MJI. As far as Excelsior goes, a family member of mine just got their B.A. from Excelsior. It is a SUNY college= state university of NY and accredited by Middle States. MJI – I have a different family member enrolled in MJI= not through Chedvas, but a different school. I read their 145 page catalog. Michigan Jewish Institute’s collegiate accreditation has been with the Accrediting Council of Independent Colleges and Schools since 1997. Excelsior is a state college. MJI is what is called a national college. They are not related or affiliated in any way.

    • and, Excelsior did pull out of Chedvas. They told this directly to someone in my family. MJI had not done so as of last week.

  31. The beis din made a great job. Unfortunately for many other cases a beis din cannot move the evil from Jewish intuitions. There is a Elimelech Meisles from Berlin called Rabbiner Reuven Yaacobov. The Beis Din of EU Conference could never move an action against him because the victims that step forward usually don’t stand the pressure and is at this very moment “hunting” for victims in facebook, sending mp3 shiurim to girls that he identifies are willing to make teshuva.

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